People in the Maritimes Canada are getting screwed, myself included.

You are getting screwed, I bought Spruce Point from Slave Lake area for $5 a bag.

WOW they charge you tax on a heating fuel!, Here in Maine there is no tax on heating oil or wood pellets.

That stinks, you should run for office and use that as your platform, bet you would win.


bill

Ohio charges tax on both heating oil and wood pellets. Only 7% though.

Bantam said:

Ohio charges tax on both heating oil and wood pellets. Only 7% though.

Click to expand...

WOWZER's...Only 7%...I don't think basic necessities like home heating fuel (regardless of fuel type) should be taxed...Period...this is a basic necessity for any family or individual...however some States tax medicine and food as well...soon it will be the air you breath...

Anyway, back to the original post, I don't think the wood pellet industry is any more immune to greed than oil...it is up to us consumers to diversify our choices to prevent this sort of thing from happening...with oil at less than $2/gal here, I will burn more oil...however I will still burn pellets this winter for my downstairs which has no other system in place (other than electric heaters)...BUT, if oil prices rebound (which eventually will) then I have a second option...besides, I will only use 1-2 tons per year at most and if I can get it at $225/ton then its not to bad...a little bit more than oil but it is still within "reason"...unless it gets to $275/tn or more there then I got oil as my alternative...One last thing, I can run an oil filled electric radiator (on a timer) downstairs in the winter and it doesn't get below 63F..which is cool but reasonable..for about $100 per month for 4 months....

In closing, the key words ladies and gentlemen is DIVERSIFY YOUR HOLDINGS ;-)

Regards,
Ossy

just like more drilling for oil will bring down the price due to more supply, more pellet plants will bring down the price of pellets, of course as long as Europe buys up the atlantic seaboard surplus at a higher price than we want to pay the price won't drop to fast, but it will eventualy, as long as new mills get built each year and trees don't get any more expensive. We may even see the price come down some due to the market being saturated with pellets, then some mills will go out of business and the price go back up some.
This depends on how comitted people are to burning pellets, with oil cheap again the demand won't be there this year, so expect the market to have a lot of growing pains.
As for canada taxing you on fuel, when did you notice you lived in a socialist country? don't tell me it was just now! Don't worry we won't be far behind you now that we have Obama and co. in office, then you won't have to feel so bad.
Socialisim is a continuation of fuedelisim from the middle ages, you end up with the nobility, and then everybody else. The middle class is squeezed out by taxes and regulations, so the rich can't be challenged by something new, and in a few generations they have the idea they decended from "better" ancestors than everyone else.
Here in Maine there is a 5% sales tax, but I don't think I paid it on my pellets, I usual buy everything in New Hampshire, which has no sales tax so I don't even think about sales tax. (it realy hurts when I travel and see what other states pay)

Bantam said:

Ohio charges tax on both heating oil and wood pellets. Only 7% though.

Click to expand...

ONLY 7% ?????? And you think that's OK????

I think anything over 0% is just plain wrong. Heating fuel is like buying food....it's a basic necessity of life, and should have NO tax at all, anywhere in the US.

Just another example of your plain old greedy govt. rearing it's ugly "we don't care about the people, we're going to get as much $$ out of them as we can" head.

The oil companies are not alone with regards to being evil!
The pellet industry is as bad or worse.

Gio said:

The oil companies are not alone with regards to being evil!
The pellet industry is as bad or worse.

Click to expand...

I think the pellet mill owners should be wearing turban's on there heads to show there true colors.


bill

As a former New Brunswicker, I completely understand how you feel. I never quite understood why some things, which some could easily argue as necessities, are taxed in NB. I can't believe the prices you guys pay for pellets an then to have sales tax added to that.....

I sure everyone is aware how pellets are made? If not you might want study up on it a tad. Very fuel intensive process. 1 transport of raw materials 2 reduce to proper particulate size 3 adjust moisture content 4 add binding agents 5 mix 6 adjust moisture content 7 heat extrusion press to operating temperature and maintain 8 feed material to press 9 dry pellets to 12% 10 bag 11 store for transport. Very rough process line, now guess what is powering most of this process ( it is not pellets or wood for most of them) While I am sure there are a few plants that may be self sufficient, that generaly is not the case. Not bashing anyone just putting a little info out. I am in Wisconsin USA 2nd highest taxed state in the union working real hard to be #1. Everything here is taxed either indirectly or directly at purchase point. Saw a price today for pellets unknown which brand 199/ton has been 225 to 255 +tax and delivery if needed. Delivery charge is taxed also. by the bag 4.95 to 6.95 depending on season. I burn scrounged wood, thought about pellet system no savings for me over natural gas. I agee that is a bit of a pita but I just figure I am saving the cost of gym membership or at least one of those fancy home systems I would never use anyway.

blades said:

I sure everyone is aware how pellets are made? If not you might want study up on it a tad. Very fuel intensive process.

Click to expand...

I agree that there are a number of processes that take place for producing wood pellets, however it is no more intensive in terms of process or energy than other forms of fuel. Each industry for energy (wood pellets, coal, oil, gas) has its own unique processes that it must deal with in the production and distribution of its product. As far as the amount of energy that is needed to produce wood pellets, from what I have seen it is on the order of about 20% of the mass of the product itself.

In closing, I think some (not all) of the wood pellet producers and possibly some of the distributors (especially in the northeast) really are trying to make an exorbitant profit margin. With that being said, it is the US so if they can make it then more power to them. On the other hand, I tend to think for myself and my pocketbook so I am not going to pay those prices (more $225 to $250 depending on brand). I would just like to remind them that the current state of affairs in this country and the middle east is due to insatiable greed. I do believe in the end they will suffer more than the consumer...which is a good thing in my book.

Regards
Ossy

Ossy said:

blades said:

I sure everyone is aware how pellets are made? If not you might want study up on it a tad. Very fuel intensive process.

Click to expand...

... Each industry for energy (wood pellets, coal, oil, gas) has its own unique processes that it must deal with in the production and distribution of its product. As far as the amount of energy that is needed to produce wood pellets, from what I have seen it is on the order of about 20% of the mass of the product itself. ..
Regards
Ossy

Click to expand...

Distribution still puzzles me. Getting some Maine and New Hampshire hardwood in this region makes sense. But most of the Canadian softwood seems to come from BC and has to be shipped by rail and then truck to Massachusetts. I wonder why there isn't a flood of Quebec softwood pellets around. Their transportation costs should be a fraction of getting pellets from western Canada. And from Quebec to the Maritimes should be even cheaper. Any explanations?

I looked at a few of your other posts. Informative. Your being in the business makes for a real contribution here.

What I should conclude from what you say is that plenty of bug kill wood is available in places like Colorado and Western Canada. Mills located out there should find pellets relatively easier to ship and retail by selling west of the Mississippi than here in the Northeast. And also there is less bug kill wood in eastern Canada and the northeast US, so it's harder for pellet mills to make a go of it because they depend on getting raw material from suppliers who mainly do lumber-for-construction. Correct?

In my case, the practical application is that I bought both Okanagan and NEWP for next year. I'll find out if there is much difference for me when I burn them.

Currently in Maine it is from $245 to $315 per ton...depending on brand and such...One thing I keep seeing as I drive past many of the places (local hearth stores) is that there are stockpiles of pallets of pellets...I really don't know what to think of it....two ways to look at it:

1. They are stock piling thinking prices will go up.
2. They are not selling product at those prices considering heating oil is less than $2/gal here. This would equate to about $4 per 40lb bag of pellets or about $200/ton.

Very interesting though...

Ossy

Ossy said:

Currently in Maine it is from $245 to $315 per ton...depending on brand and such...One thing I keep seeing as I drive past many of the places (local hearth stores) is that there are stockpiles of pallets of pellets...I really don't know what to think of it....two ways to look at it:

1. They are stock piling thinking prices will go up.
2. They are not selling product at those prices considering heating oil is less than $2/gal here. This would equate to about $4 per 40lb bag of pellets or about $200/ton.

Very interesting though...

Ossy

Click to expand...

I don't know about other's ideas in relation to stockpiling, but at our shop we have had a very clear idea on why to do it; last year there were a few weeks that we could not provide enough fuel to meet demand, and we had to turn people away... this year (given that everyone got a pellet appliance last season) every other joe on the block has 3k+ of stove in their house, and they are not gonna let it just sit cold over the winter... so we have ordered a lot of pellets. unfortunatly, the consumer's memory is short, and only a few have stopped in to load up. I am sure it will be a cluster*%#@ later on when these supplies are run thru in the fall and everyone realizes the ought to get some fuel for winter. The dropping oil prices have hurt this commodity, but once again the consumer's memory is short: i for one can't wait untill they skyrocket agin... all the same people who were screaming murder about the arabs' oil will be at it again.... untill oil dips down and then they forget....
Pellet tech has been around for a while, but the widespread use of it is a newer thing. Most of these plants are still operating on their 1st or 2nd year, and have a lot of atrt up costs to pay for, as well as labor and manufacturing for stuff no one is buying right now. Peronally for me, pellets are kind of a headache, the markup is only about a buck a bag, sometimes only 25 bucks a ton. You lose alot of pellets to waste and water damage when they sit around at a shipping dock instead of in a nice covered garage. There is no recourse for the retailers to get that back from the manufacturer, so they eat it. I know that manufacturing costs are high, due to lack of ready to pellitized raw stock, so many companies spend the extra coin to process whole trees into pellets... this is cost intensive. I doubt that many of the mills are gouging, in fact some have been selling at pretty low margins to move product along. The bottom line is, this industry supports many of our local economies, and the consumer should not be so fickle when there is such a marginal difference in the cost of fossil fuel vs pellets. Keep on supporting this industry, and as it gets past its infancy, costs will come down. you'll also have the satisfaction of serving your country and region by employing locals at these mills, and not simbad on his oil derrick in the desert.

Amaralluis said:

With at least two pellet mills and supposedly another one opening Northern New Brunswick I have to say that pellet users are getting screwed big time and I am one of them.
Checked prices around here and they are all the same $6.59/bag.
"$6.59 you say? Thats not bad!" I can see someone thinking, but you see here in Canada theres this thing called taxes that are extra, so the actual price is $7.44 a bag because of this additional 13% tax.
And these are locally made, its not that they have to be hauled from the Pacific.

I burn around 180 bags a year, at these prices it will cost 180*$7.44=$1339 and I still have to factor in the delivery.
So much for pellets being the alternative to the evil oil/gas companies...

Last year the same brand of pellets was sold at $5.29+tax. Thats right it increased a whooping 24% compared to last year! It must've been because of the price of oil increases... oh wait something not right!

I am disgusted with this industry, after investing the money in the stove and stuff I really thought pellets would be a very good alternative to oil and gas and electricity.
They are all the same, greedy bastards.
Sorry but I am pissed.

Click to expand...

Someones gotta pay for that free (?) universal health care. The idiot running the USA now will have us right up there with our fellow Canadians waiting 6 months + for who knows what DR. will perform whatever services are required.

New York has state and local taxes on heating fuels and a gross receipts tax on the energy companies. The tax law prohibits the energy companies from itemizing the tax.

funy how all those partialy socialized states are the ones where people complian about taxes on everything you can think of, then there are others on here who think high taxes are required for an "advanced" society, if that is progress you can keep the change.

I went to wal-mart tonight and bought a bag of pellets and they charged me sales tax , i told them there's no sales tax on pellets their reply was "the heating seasons over that why theres a tax." who knew? Any one eles have this happen to them here in maine?

firewarrior820 said:

I went to wal-mart tonight and bought a bag of pellets and they charged me sales tax , i told them there's no sales tax on pellets their reply was "the heating seasons over that why theres a tax." who knew? Any one eles have this happen to them here in maine?

Click to expand...

Take the receipt and call the state government. This makes no sense, especially since I had to turn on the heat last night.

Hakusan said:

firewarrior820 said:

I went to wal-mart tonight and bought a bag of pellets and they charged me sales tax , i told them there's no sales tax on pellets their reply was "the heating seasons over that why theres a tax." who knew? Any one eles have this happen to them here in maine?

Click to expand...

Take the receipt and call the state government. This makes no sense, especially since I had to turn on the heat last night.

Click to expand...

ROFL...I agree with you on the fact that you shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. I don't think you will get to far with Maine State "government" ...they will tell you they are running a deficit and you need to pay....good luck on that, let us know how it works out...

Ossy

It's funny they keep voting in the same losers and then wonder why the state is broke and raising taxes.