Battery back up system that can be solar power charged

wchancey · Jul 2, 2009

I would like to have a battery back up system for my pellet stove, that starts out small but that I can keep adding to and eventually end up large enough to run totally independent of the electrical grid.

Can anyone point me in the direction of how many deep cycle battery's I would need to be able to run 24 hours a day in the winter , by switching them out while charging others with solar powered battery chargers.

When I try and do my own searches I keep getting lost and not finding what I want. And if you could help with the size solar cells I would need to charge deep cycle battery's that would be great.

Fixedblade · Jul 2, 2009

Greetings: This is by no means a definative answer to your question as I'm not a solar expert. However I do believe that I can safely say that in order for you to run a pellet stove by battery/invertor you will need a LOT of batteries. Not only that, you will need a LOT of solar panel capacity to be able to anywhere near recharge the bank of batteries once they discharge. You'll really need a generator to effectively recharge those batteries unless you have a large solar panel array and optimum exposure to the sun on a continuing basis.
Regards,
FB in Vt.

Todd · Jul 2, 2009

Just for reference I have a small solar generator consisting of 50 watt solar panel, 1000 amp dc/ac inverter, and 3 ea 12 volt batteries. I have 4 lights hooked up to this with those 60 watt florecent bulbs that actually are rated at 13 watts each. I can run these lights after a good sunny day for 4-6 hours before the inverter low voltage alarm goes off.

New Hampshire Jim · Jul 2, 2009

I played around with solar a while back and the number just didnt add up for me.
You would need a solar panel that produces about 750 Watts as they are only about 80 ïficient. To run your stove at 120 volts and 400 watts you will need at least 10 12 volt batteries for storage. And a inverter

750 Watt Panel=$2000
Batteries=$600
Inverter $100
This said come around November we start to see less daylight and in my area of the country(New Hampshire) we see about 4 Hours of usable daylight to charge your batteries
You will be lucky to be able to run your stove for an hour a WEEK. and thats with No cloud cover
You could always add more panels $$$$$
Or invest in a generator and wait for technology to catch up
Jim

peakbagger · Jul 2, 2009

Not sure what the solar incentives are in Michigan these days, but in many states, there are very good incentive programs to offset the cost of solar if its tied to the grid. At least one company, outback, makes a battery backup grid tie system. A grid tie system sends power into the grid effectively running your meter backwards when you are not using t for a stove and in most areas, you can bank up spare pwer in the summer to be used in the winter. If the power goes down, the batteries take over. These systems are not cheap, but the price of solar is coming down and the federal government has a 30% tax credit (not deduction) that cuts the cost down even more.

If you want to go "home brew" you can buy non UL rated 200 watt panels for under $3 per watt, then you need a charge controller, deep cycle batteries and an inverter. As for sizing the system, most people try to shoot for three days of no sun and then they run a generator to charge up the batteries. Realistically, its a fairly expensive backup system as you arent getting any incentives.

TboneMan · Jul 2, 2009

New Hampshire Jim said:
I played around with solar a while back and the number just didnt add up for me.
You would need a solar panel that produces about 750 Watts as they are only about 80 ïficient. To run your stove at 120 volts and 400 watts you will need at least 10 12 volt batteries for storage. And a inverter

750 Watt Panel=$2000
Batteries=$600
Inverter $100
This said come around November we start to see less daylight and in my area of the country(New Hampshire) we see about 4 Hours of usable daylight to charge your batteries
You will be lucky to be able to run your stove for an hour a WEEK. and thats with No cloud cover
You could always add more panels $$$$$
Or invest in a generator and wait for technology to catch up
Jim

You're missing a "charge controller" between the panels and the batteries. Depending on the model it can be $250 -$800.

TboneMan · Jul 2, 2009

peakbagger said:
Not sure what the solar incentives are in Michigan these days, but in many states, there are very good incentive programs to offset the cost of solar if its tied to the grid. At least one company, outback, makes a battery backup grid tie system. A grid tie system sends power into the grid effectively running your meter backwards when you are not using t for a stove and in most areas, you can bank up spare pwer in the summer to be used in the winter. If the power goes down, the batteries take over. These systems are not cheap, but the price of solar is coming down and the federal government has a 30% tax credit (not deduction) that cuts the cost down even more.

If you want to go "home brew" you can buy non UL rated 200 watt panels for under $3 per watt, then you need a charge controller, deep cycle batteries and an inverter. As for sizing the system, most people try to shoot for three days of no sun and then they run a generator to charge up the batteries. Realistically, its a fairly expensive backup system as you arent getting any incentives.

A note: In most states in order to qualify for the gov. programs, home owners must use "professional" installers. Do-it-yourself installations do not typically qualify.

TboneMan · Jul 2, 2009

New Hampshire Jim said:
I played around with solar a while back and the number just didnt add up for me.
You would need a solar panel that produces about 750 Watts as they are only about 80 ïficient. To run your stove at 120 volts and 400 watts you will need at least 10 12 volt batteries for storage. And a inverter

750 Watt Panel=$2000
Batteries=$600
Inverter $100
This said come around November we start to see less daylight and in my area of the country(New Hampshire) we see about 4 Hours of usable daylight to charge your batteries
You will be lucky to be able to run your stove for an hour a WEEK. and thats with No cloud cover
You could always add more panels $$$$$
Or invest in a generator and wait for technology to catch up
Jim

Oh I forgot... another relatively large expense is wire and connectors to build your battery array. Copper 2/0 or thicker wire is expensive as are the connectors (and tools to handle them).

New Hampshire Jim · Jul 2, 2009

And the most important figure
It will cost me about 25 cents a day to buy electricity to run my stove or about $8.00 a month
Times 4 winter months =$32.00 If nothing in the system fails, And the batteries will The payback is 60 years before you will be making FREE POWER
JIm

tjnamtiw · Jul 2, 2009

New Hampshire Jim said:
And the most important figure
It will cost me about 25 cents a day to buy electricity to run my stove or about $8.00 a month
Times 4 winter months =$32.00 If nothing in the system fails, And the batteries will The payback is 60 years before you will be making FREE POWER
JIm

You stole my thunder. Payback is the killer. Once you start looking at cents per KWH, you will find it would take 40 to 60 years to pay it back. Same thing with wind power for the homeowner. Even with the 30% stimulus, it's a waste of money. One more thing REALLY thought through before it was passed.

imacman · Jul 3, 2009

tjnamtiw said:
..........Even with the 30% stimulus, it's a waste of money. One more thing REALLY thought through before it was passed.

Yep, just one more example of how smart the "geniuses" are (NOT), that got elected in Washington. And Cap & Trade just may be the final nail in this country's coffin.......

tjnamtiw · Jul 3, 2009

Yep, quick pass it so we can go on vacation AGAIN !!!

Stentor · Jul 3, 2009

tjnamtiw said:
Yep, quick pass it so we can go on vacation AGAIN

Yeah, but gotta be careful what you wish for. If they go on vacation, they are not doing anything and that could be good, LOL. I live close enough to NH that I get their TV stations and they have a part time legislature. Not that they don't have problems of their own!

But I shouldn't be dragging up politics in this thread. Sorry. :coolsmirk:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1176928

imacman · Jul 3, 2009

Stentor said:
tjnamtiw said:

Yep, quick pass it so we can go on vacation AGAIN

Click to expand...

.....I live close enough to NH that I get their TV stations and they have a part time legislature. Not that they don't have problems of their own!.............

Stentor,

tjnamtiw and I were referring to our idiot friends in Washington, DC.......or at least I was.

flowercat · Jul 3, 2009

Ths recent discussion seems complicated for a pellet stove electrical backup. It is your money or the states or Federal Goverment as the case may be so do what you want. I know here the state won't pay rebates for solar unless it is grid connected.

tjnamtiw · Jul 3, 2009

macman said:
Stentor said:

tjnamtiw said:

Yep, quick pass it so we can go on vacation AGAIN

Click to expand...

.....I live close enough to NH that I get their TV stations and they have a part time legislature. Not that they don't have problems of their own!.............

Click to expand...

Stentor,

tjnamtiw and I were referring to our idiot friends in Washington, DC.......or at least I was.

Me too.

Stentor · Jul 3, 2009

tjnamtiw said:
macman said:

Stentor said:

tjnamtiw said:

Yep, quick pass it so we can go on vacation AGAIN

Click to expand...

.....I live close enough to NH that I get their TV stations and they have a part time legislature. Not that they don't have problems of their own!.............

Click to expand...

Stentor,

tjnamtiw and I were referring to our idiot friends in Washington, DC.......or at least I was.

Click to expand...

Me too.

I understood that. But it's kind of a running joke going back to the beginning of the country that many people think legislative bodies at every level (national, state, county) do best when they are not around to do anything. In other words, some people feel that when they are out of town they are not doing any mischief!

But I apologize for dragging this discussion away from a discussion of a simple power connection. :red:

peterpski666 · Jul 9, 2009

I assess properties and in a recent inspection spoke with a homeowner who had replaced an entire half roof of a 2000 sf colonial in outer Boston. His approximate cost was about $70000 for the panels and labor, about 15000 in the 70s. I asked him what he expected for a return (He was in his early 60s). He said he would never ever recoup his expense. The upside is that he had zero electric bill. He would draw some power in the winter, but the system was sustaining the rest of the year. He said that the credits were no longer equal to the outlay where previously the state of Mass/city had given a 60 odd percent rebate on those systems. Also, despite the US government credits, there were only 2 companies in the US making the solar panels where in the 70s there were 30 plus. So, we have no base to make the panels come down in price so they become affordable energy.

tjnamtiw · Jul 9, 2009

One more example of a Stimulus Package that funds foreign companies instead of US companies. If you get a chance, watch this video and see if you agree that the time has come to do SOMETHING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA&feature=related

Stentor · Jul 9, 2009

Neighbors of mine are in the same situation. He and his wife are in their 60s, bought solar panels more than 5 years ago and don't expect full payback for another 15 years. That affects the eventual sale of their house, especially if the housing market is not strong at that time.

I've seen some recent WSJ and NYT stories that talk about how tight capital is for solar and wind companies now, especially while the eventual shape of an energy bill is unclear. There is a similarity to the pellet "industry" here. Weakness. Temporary tax credits and other incentives will probably keep some of the business from dying out but in the end they will need much more momentum of their own.

For a more optimistic view than many, look at:

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Momenturm-for-clean-energy-bills--renewable-energy-industry-40964.html

Battery back up system that can be solar power charged

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