Garn system design question

Scott from Canada · Aug 28, 2009

Heaterman and other design experts I'm hoping you can provide me with some advise.I'm working with Ken from Garn and I believe I am getting closer to making the Garn plunge. We have decided that the 1500 should be adequate.Now we are talking system design and I wanted to get your option on how I should go about supplying the heat load of my 1900sqft home 2000sqft shop 16x26' pool(summer).
I have read a little bit about primary and secondary loops and wonder if this is the way to go? The Garn would sit in the center of my shop, between my wood working 1/2 of the shop and the auto / miscellanious 1/2 of the shop. We have discussed putting rads in wood working area, this would keep the dust down vs a forced air HX. It would be about 1000sqft. hopefully I won't need a ton of them to keep it warm. I was thinking that if I split part of the 1000sqft wood area off for a spray booth rads may be the right joice again because of dust control. My thoughts on the second half of the shop is that it will get some heat off the boiler and I would like provision in the future to perhaps install floor heat with an over pour over the existing concrete or just install a forced air HX. I guess I would need to provide for future zones off the shop manifold now?
As for the house which I would need to get on line ASAP, I have discussed with Ken about installing a HX coil in my electric furnace duct.Three separate floor heat zones up stairs, and two rad heated zones in the basement. Am I right in saying if a primary/secondary loop system was used I would take off the largest heat loads fisrt like the HX ciol in the furnace?
As far as the pool goes I imagine it would also be tapped off early on the loop. Can I just have shutoffs and drain valves so I can drain it every fall? I imagine the pool HX would be in the pool house?It is 70' from the equipement room in the basement of the house.The distance from the equipement room in the basement to the bioler location is 130'.

Please provide feedback I am trying to design the right system the first time and get an accurate cost estimate.

Thanks all

radiantman · Aug 29, 2009

I know this Kenny guy of who you speak. He is one of the best. I know he likes to sell the GARN but he will not give you bad info.
The pool is going to be the killer for heating unless its well insulated. Have you thought about putting PEX tubing in the walls of the pool (if its not built) make th pool itself the heahexchanger.
Let us know how your project turns out.
Thanks

Scott from Canada · Aug 29, 2009

Yes I 'm pretty happy with Ken's assistance so far. The pool is an above ground sunk 4' in the ground with a 4' deck around 3 sides. I guess I could insulate it that may help. We used it a whole 6 times this year because we are trying to heat it with 3 solar panels.We have had a real------ summer here.

heaterman · Aug 30, 2009

Scott from Canada said:
Heaterman and other design experts I'm hoping you can provide me with some advise.I'm working with Ken from Garn and I believe I am getting closer to making the Garn plunge. We have decided that the 1500 should be adequate.Now we are talking system design and I wanted to get your option on how I should go about supplying the heat load of my 1900sqft home 2000sqft shop 16x26' pool(summer).
I have read a little bit about primary and secondary loops and wonder if this is the way to go? The Garn would sit in the center of my shop, between my wood working 1/2 of the shop and the auto / miscellanious 1/2 of the shop. We have discussed putting rads in wood working area, this would keep the dust down vs a forced air HX. It would be about 1000sqft. hopefully I won't need a ton of them to keep it warm. I was thinking that if I split part of the 1000sqft wood area off for a spray booth rads may be the right joice again because of dust control. My thoughts on the second half of the shop is that it will get some heat off the boiler and I would like provision in the future to perhaps install floor heat with an over pour over the existing concrete or just install a forced air HX. I guess I would need to provide for future zones off the shop manifold now?
As for the house which I would need to get on line ASAP, I have discussed with Ken about installing a HX coil in my electric furnace duct.Three separate floor heat zones up stairs, and two rad heated zones in the basement. Am I right in saying if a primary/secondary loop system was used I would take off the largest heat loads fisrt like the HX ciol in the furnace?
As far as the pool goes I imagine it would also be tapped off early on the loop. Can I just have shutoffs and drain valves so I can drain it every fall? I imagine the pool HX would be in the pool house?It is 70' from the equipement room in the basement of the house.The distance from the equipement room in the basement to the bioler location is 130'.

Please provide feedback I am trying to design the right system the first time and get an accurate cost estimate.

Thanks all

I don't want to tread on Ken's toes here as he is the one working with you and is more familiar with what you have going on........that being said, I can't help myself..........

So here's a few thoughts and comments.
Primary/secondary is often a matter of how you want to control your system or in some cases dictated by loop lengths or wide variations in flow demand of different zones.

"Am I right in saying if a primary/secondary loop system was used I would take off the largest heat loads fisrt like the HX ciol in the furnace?"

The issue is not so much the largest loads as it is the loads that demand the highest water temp when using a single pipe pri/sec design. If having the same water temp available to all zones is desirable, there are primary secondary piping methods that allow that to happen also. Typically this is called two pipe primary secondary. Dan Holohan did an article about a system I piped up like that a few years ago for Plumbing & Mechanical magazine.

Panel rads are an excellent choice for areas where dust and/or paint spray may be present. In fact, I like panel rads almost anywhere. When used with TRV's and a home run manifold piping arrangement there is no simpler way to achieve different temps in different rooms all served by a single circ.

If it were me, I'd like to see you install a plate HX right by the Garn and make the "B" side your primary loop. You could run that to your house, loop through, taking secondary loops off it to feed whatever and then head back to the shop. The heat in the shop(s) could be taken off the supply or the return of the primary depending on where you need the highest temp water. You'll obviously need a pool type HX to serve that load. I'm guessing you are going to want pretty good flow to the house in order to drive the pool when it's in use.

Scott from Canada · Sep 3, 2009

Thanks Heaterman for getting back, I have not checked the post for a bit because we are heavy into a major home reno.
I would like to discuss in more detail and maybe ask you if you could do a line diagram for me. Thanks Scott

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