Older Stihl 011 avt Question

rsoko · Jun 23, 2008

I was given an older Stihl 011 avt from my dad to use. I just got it tuned up and it runs great! I have two questions: I think I am maybe missing a pin to hold on the bar and my bar oil is leaking.

When I took off the casing to look at the bar and chain I noticed that the adjustable pin that holds on the bar works great (also for tension), but there is not a second pin above that adjustor pin (there is a hole that you can screw in a pin into, but is missing). I couldn't figure out if it is necessary, but there is a place to screw in a pin and a second corresponding hole on my bar. Maybe the tension of the bar cannot be adjusted with a second pin since that pin is stationary. That seems like an easy fix, but I wanted to make sure that I need the second pin before I go look to buy one.

My other problem is that the bar oil leaks. If I leave it with a full tank of bar oil it is empty in less than a day. Any idea on where to start to fix that or is it too big of a job?

-RYan

Gooserider · Jun 27, 2008

I don't know that saw specifically, but all the saws I'm familiar with have mirror image holes in the bar (I think that is the hole you are talking about where the adjuster goes) so that you can flip the bar over in order to make it wear evenly... The other hole in the saw case that you think might be for a second pin may well be where the oil goes into the bar from the pump - I know it is on at least one of my saws...

Not sure what do do with the leak, other than to pull the saw apart and check all the lines, pump, etc. to see where it's coming from... It may just be a case of "don't leave oil in the saw" - I always try to run my saws out of gas before putting them up, and if the oiler is doing right, you should be running almost out of oil at the same time...

Gooserider

cmonSTART · Jun 27, 2008

I think your saw has the adjuster pin you speak of, and one (I think) bar stud above it. it's the big stud that actually holds the bar and that you screw the big hex nut onto. I think it has one at least.

As for the oil leak, a lot of older saws do. Over time, the rubber lines and o-rings dry up and shrink and this allows the bar oil to leak past. The only real cure is to replace the rubber with a new part. I'm not sure if new parts are available for your saw still. Personally, I would just empty the oil when I was done using it.

Robbie · Jun 28, 2008

I have a pdf parts list for the 011 if you want to email me I'll send it to you.

Robbie

rsoko · Jun 30, 2008

Thanks for the advice. I will take it apart and check the lines and o-rings. I will check the parts list to see if the pin is even a possibility, or that it might be the place where bar oil comes out.

Gooserider · Jun 30, 2008

It is a bit hard to describe without a picture, but the powerhead end of the bar on every saw I've ever worked on has two smallish holes, and one large slot in it.

The large slot runs lengthwise, and goes over the relatively large stud or studs (usually two) that holds the bar and the side cover that goes over the bar and chain to hold it on - this allows the bar to slide back and forth while being adjusted, but then be clamped tightly in place.

The two smallish holes are placed one above and one below the slot in mirror symettry - the adjuster screw will go into one of the two holes, and is used to set the tension on the chain. The oil flows into the bar through the other - any time you have the bar off the saw, it is a good idea to run a small wire or other poker through the bar slot to clean out the passages connecting the hole to the chain groove in the bar.

(note that this may not apply to the new Oregon "Intenz" bars, or some of the other new "easy adjust" bar technologies, mostly found only on newer, small / consumer grade saws)

Gooserider

singed · Sep 3, 2009

Staring at the bar, I came to the same conclusion that Gooserider mentioned: namely that the bar is oiled from the inside, out. That's consistent with the literature of Stihl's Oilmatic chain which has the channel in each tooth to scoop up and deliver oil from the groove.

However, then I expected to find a rubber seal of some sort to be inside the bar cover, to keep the oil from squirting beyond the bar. There's a block of metal there, but no gasket.

That's my theory: that most of the oil landing on my boots comes from oil intended for the inside of the bar.

I cut a little piece of inner tube to cover that top hole just before I put the bar cover on. It's a little delicate to try to keep it in place while you're trying to balance the bar and the chain and line up the cover while trying to get it on, but it did seem to help my leaking. A lot.

I was pretty optimistic that I'd fixed it, until an older counterman walked up while a young guy was checking to see if my cover was missing a part of some kind (it wasn't) and asked what was up.

The young guy told the old, "His chainsaw's leaking, a lot."

The old guy said, "What is it? A 009 or an 011? If so, they ALWAYS leak, a lot."

Now I only imagine I fixed it, but give it a try. If this continues to seem to work for me, I'm going to cut some squares of thin rubber gasket material big enough to fit over the bar bolt and still cover the hole, so I don't have to worry about it falling out while I'm doing the cover-juggling routine.

Gooserider · Sep 6, 2009

singed said:
Staring at the bar, I came to the same conclusion that Gooserider mentioned: namely that the bar is oiled from the inside, out. That's consistent with the literature of Stihl's Oilmatic chain which has the channel in each tooth to scoop up and deliver oil from the groove.

However, then I expected to find a rubber seal of some sort to be inside the bar cover, to keep the oil from squirting beyond the bar. There's a block of metal there, but no gasket.

That's my theory: that most of the oil landing on my boots comes from oil intended for the inside of the bar.

I cut a little piece of inner tube to cover that top hole just before I put the bar cover on. It's a little delicate to try to keep it in place while you're trying to balance the bar and the chain and line up the cover while trying to get it on, but it did seem to help my leaking. A lot.

I was pretty optimistic that I'd fixed it, until an older counterman walked up while a young guy was checking to see if my cover was missing a part of some kind (it wasn't) and asked what was up.

The young guy told the old, "His chainsaw's leaking, a lot."

The old guy said, "What is it? A 009 or an 011? If so, they ALWAYS leak, a lot."

Now I only imagine I fixed it, but give it a try. If this continues to seem to work for me, I'm going to cut some squares of thin rubber gasket material big enough to fit over the bar bolt and still cover the hole, so I don't have to worry about it falling out while I'm doing the cover-juggling routine.

You might want to be careful about doing that - remember that the primary function of that side cover and the nuts that hold it on is to keep the bar and chain in place and in adjustment... You don't want anything that would keep the cover from clamping down on the bar solidly. It might work to make a thin gasket that would cover the entire clamping area, but I'm not sure I'd trust it... Maybe if the gasket was made from some very non-compressible material...

I have seen some saws that have a thin sheet metal plate on one or both sides of the bar which looks like it might function as a gasket - perhaps that might be worth a try. In any case, remember that it is vital to make sure that the contact areas have to be very clean - any sawdust or other gruck will act as shims to hold the clamping surfaces apart and let the oil leak out.

Gooserider

singed · Sep 7, 2009

I appreciate the warning. You make sense.

Of course, it hadn't occurred to me, and so I've now tried with both the small piece of inner tube and with a thin layer of silicone sealant.

In the second case, I laid a bead on the plate and trimmed it to a thin layer the next morning after it dried.

If I had to do it again, I'd just smear a thin layer on with my finger.

In the half-dozen half-days I've used it, I've had no sign of trouble. The plate seems to tighten down fine and stay tight.

Regarding your metal plate, I seem to recall seeing sheets of copper or brass used as gaskets in some applications.

I'll agree to try to give that a try for a more permanent solution.

Thanks.

Gooserider · Sep 7, 2009

Another possible option, that might or might not be workable depending on the setup (remember, I don't know the saw at all) is to try "lapping" the clamp surfaces so that they are flatter and don't have any grooves or gouges that could act as channels to let oil leak out... This would probably be difficult to do on the powerhead side, but might be doable on the side cover if the clamp surface sticks out a bit. The easiest way to do it that I'm aware of on a flat surface is to get a peice of plate glass, wet & dry sandpaper and some valve lapping compound - start with coarse and work down... Initially wet the sand paper and put it on the glass, then rub the surface back and forth on it. Put the compound on the glass directly and repeat to finish... Avoid moving in patterns when rubbing as you want to smooth out any irregularities...

This isn't as good as you could get with a high end surface grinder, but it should be good enough...

Gooserider

singed · Sep 8, 2009

Another good insight.

The present surface is a flattish unfinished casting coated with the same glossy white paint covering all the other metallic parts of the saw.

I take your use of the word "lapping" instead of "sanding" intends to direct to "smooth it (and keep it parallel) without making it any shorter.

singed · Sep 8, 2009

[BTW, I'd like to thank Robbie here for sending me the parts list too.]

Gooserider · Sep 8, 2009

singed said:
Another good insight.

The present surface is a flattish unfinished casting coated with the same glossy white paint covering all the other metallic parts of the saw.

I take your use of the word "lapping" instead of "sanding" intends to direct to "smooth it (and keep it parallel) without making it any shorter.

Exactly - with the key difference being that in lapping the emphasis is on making the surface flat first, then smooth, or alternatively to making the fit between two parts as perfect as possible - such as when lapping in valves in a 4-stroke engine... Sanding the idea is more to get a smooth finish, with flatness as only a secondary consideration...

In theory the "perfect" lapping job would actually cause two surfaces to weld together on contact, but even our best finishing capabilities are nothing close to that... However the closer you can get two surfaces to being flat, the less need there is for gaskets and so on. I got some of this from the PC over-clocking guys who need to get the absolute best possible contact between a CPU's die and their coolers in order to get rid of heat. The better the surfaces match, the better the thermal transfer...

Gooserider

Sparkster · Sep 8, 2009

I have 3 Stihl saws that all leak bar oil if left in a normal position.
So now I hang them from hooks holding them rightside (barside) up.
It might not be your problem, but it sure is an easy one to try.

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Older Stihl 011 avt Question

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