catalytic stove questions

Pauly, all cat stoves do not operate the same for sure and I am not familiar with your stove, but we love our cat stove. It burns the wood super clean and it uses less wood to heat us.

We engage the cat when the stove top reaches 250 degrees, which, in our stove means the internal temperature is 500 degrees, which the cat needs to work. Viewing the fire is just as good or better except some parts of the burn when the draft is cut super low you won't get flames but will still get lots of heat. If you want flame at this point, just give it a little more draft and you'll have it.

This being a used stove you would no doubt need to replace the cat immediately. Before purchasing the stove, I'd check to see if you can still get a cat the right size and what the price will be. It might be such a thing that the price of the cat might meet the price of the stove and would not be worth it. Best to know before buying.

Good luck.

Good to know cat info.
http://www.firecatcombustors.blogspot.com/

Pauly, basically a cat stove uses a special ceramic honeycomb treated with certain precious metals that cause smoke to burn at lower than normal temperatures. As wood burns (primary combustion), it releases volatile gases that, if heated to around 1,100F or so (I think that number is correct) will combust, burn, and produce more heat. In a non-cat stove, this process is achieved by using a baffle at the top of the stove that sort of collects the smoke before it can exit the stove and "injects" preheated secondary combustion air onto the top of the fire, causing the smoke to ignite. You get a.) more heat and b.) cleaner burns this way.

A cat stove passes the volatile gases/smoke through the catalyst which will cause smoke to begin burning at around 500F. Of course the cat will get much hotter as the smoke begins burning, but generally speaking a cat stove will "light off" (achieve secondary combustion) at a lower temperature than a non cat stove.

Hope that makes sense.

Is there a visual way to determine if the Cat has been engaged, "lit off"? Anyone got pics of a cat that has been engaged?

KatWill said:

Is there a visual way to determine if the Cat has been engaged, "lit off"? Anyone got pics of a cat that has been engaged?

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The cat does not have to glow to be lit, but will usually be this way after 1st engaging after a few minutes when the bypass is closed as all the heat in the fire box will be routed through it. It may glow for several hours depending on the load, moisture content and stat setting.

4- finger- Pauly said:

I found a used Appalachian that uses a catalytic converter. I barely understand how the new airtites work with their secondary combustion.
can someone tell me how a catalytic converter works and whether or not I should shy away from a stove that uses one?

What are the advantages or disadvantages of a catalytic converter? Will viewing the fire still be a nice as a conventional with secondary burn?

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I wouldn't mess with it. Just buy a non-cat stove. The view on my non-cat stove is much nicer than my cat stove was and it burns just as long, just as hot and just as clean. Here's some reading for you on them:

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hocats.htm

Understand that this can be a religious debate around here.

I went through what is described in the chimneysweep link and swore off catalytics. However, being able to oversize the stove and still be able to get a long low burn was too compelling to pass up. Other than the low burn which allows you to get a stove with a much bigger firebox and not overheat the house, there is little advantage to them. The biggest downside is that you give up the flames for those long low burns.

Perhaps my stove is not so educated because I do not have to give up the flames to achieve the long burns.

north of 60 great pic of a cat in action.

Cats are great, I miss mine already.

Backwoods Savage said:

Perhaps my stove is not so educated because I do not have to give up the flames to achieve the long burns.

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Dennis,

I think the BK stoves (at least the King model anyway) might have the ability to turn down the air even further than the WS stoves. I say this for a couple of reasons. First, I know the BKs can be turned down to the point where it looks almost like there's no fire or glowing coals in the box, and I haven't heard this nearly as much about the WS stoves. Second, looking at the EPA numbers for min burn, it appears the BKK has the ability to put out a lower amount of heat than the WS (FW at least). The EPA lists the giant BKK at 9100 min btu, where the EPA rates the much smaller WS FV at either 10,900 min btu or 13,200 min btu (depending on which Fireview listing you look at). Even though the BK stoves have a significantly larger box, the only way this could be is if the BKs can dial the air down further. I think they get away with doing this because they use a larger combustor, or at least that would be my best guess. With that said, the BK products can still do long burns with flames, just like the WS FW, but they just wont burn as long as they will at their absolute minimum setting.

Overall though, it's hard for a cat stove to compete against a non-cat when it comes to the flame show.

Thanks Wet1. FWIW, we too can get parts of the burn so that not even a hot coal can be seen yet the cat will be glowing bright red and the stove throwing a lot of heat. I've seen this happen even when cranking out 600 degrees stove top. Many times I'll get up during the night to see this happening so I expect it happens pretty much only on full loads. Most times though when it gets to this point it will then start up with the "ghost" fire. That is, that big rolling fireball at the top of the stove above the wood. It is a beautiful thing to watch.

Naturally, if one still wants to see flame, all you have to do is give it a little more air.

YEESSSSS. I took out the combustor earlier today and cleaned the honeycomb. Just lit the stove and about 40 minutes later I closed the Damper and within about 3 minutes I was able to see the honeycomb light up. Im a happy guy right now. Happiness is a lit combustor and blue mountains on my can of beer. LETS GO YANKS.. GIT IR DONE

The blue mountains. What a cool idea they had. Great cat photo mellow, that's as cool as the BK cat photo that Nof60 has posted.

Fireview can burn without flames - Almost all of my burns are flame free at this point. I'm rather looking forward to the days when it is colder and I get to see some flame action. For the most part, once I engage the cat and start lowering the air the flames go out pretty quickly. I'm left with a few glowing coals that eventually almost disappear to all black wood piles. The top of the stove cruises along at 300-350 for a few hours as the wood just melts away. I wish I had a good time-lapse camera as I think it would make a cool video to watch. Glass stays clean, inside of stove is a bit darkened in some areas (back bottom in particular where that last split sits) but I don't have any smoke showing in the stack and the few times I've looked in the top of the stove it all looks nice and clean.

Mind you I'm basically putting in 4-5 splits with a small pile of sticks as kindling on top in the morning, lighting off with a bit of a SC on top, then once flue temp is up I close it down. Perhaps 1/2 fill including the kindling? My heat needs are minimal at this point having this low burn gets the house up a few degrees during the day and is warm enough through the night to keep the draft going for easy re-start next day. Stovetop is sometimes still warm to the touch in the morning, sometimes not... sort of depends on size of splits and just how cold it is I suppose.

Crappy video of my cats engaged with no active flames present.

Yeah, I can get those beet red cat glows with no flame or red coals, but there have been times where it seems like the cat gets too hot. I've reached 740 stove top burning that way, so I like to see a little redness or some secondary flame in there to help out the cat and keep the stove top temp down below 700. I had a low burn last night, air set at .5, There were no red coals on the bottom, the top front log burned first, then the bottom front, then it moved to the two back splits. It was like each split took it's turn to burn.

Todd, at one point i checked the thermostat right above the cat and it was close to 1200* and all of the air control were closed and the flue damper was almost closed. I dont know that i want this stove, or anything for that matter running at damn near 1200* LOL. It went from 64 degrees to 76 rather quickly in that room. I only had 4 pieces of wood plus i used some kindling to get it going.

Todd said:

I had a low burn last night, air set at .5, There were no red coals on the bottom, the top front log burned first, then the bottom front, then it moved to the two back splits. It was like each split took it's turn to burn.

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Thanks for that description of your burn. My Country Flame BBF acts in a similar fashion. Seems to burn faster and hotter when the wood is placed N/S but for overnight side to side is best. In the morning some of the ends are usually still coaling but I am running some pretty long pieces also. I am waiting for some lower temps to really test this thing out for heat output.

KatWill said:

Todd, at one point i checked the thermostat right above the cat and it was close to 1200* and all of the air control were closed and the flue damper was almost closed. I dont know that i want this stove, or anything for that matter running at damn near 1200* LOL. It went from 64 degrees to 76 rather quickly in that room. I only had 4 pieces of wood plus i used some kindling to get it going.

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1200 internal cat temp is ok, anything over 1800 is too hot and you should open the bypass to cool her down. I don't have an internal cat probe so I guestimate the cat temps to be double the stove top as per manual.

Chargerman said:

Todd said:

I had a low burn last night, air set at .5, There were no red coals on the bottom, the top front log burned first, then the bottom front, then it moved to the two back splits. It was like each split took it's turn to burn.

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Thanks for that description of your burn. My Country Flame BBF acts in a similar fashion. Seems to burn faster and hotter when the wood is placed N/S but for overnight side to side is best. In the morning some of the ends are usually still coaling but I am running some pretty long pieces also. I am waiting for some lower temps to really test this thing out for heat output.

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Nice stove, we had one at the stove shop I use to work at but never saw it burn, please give us some updates as the season progresses, it would be interesting to compare the BBF to the big Blaze King.

I run an Appalachian stove. Cat insert. I love it. It's old and I've rebuilt it but I still love it and we were talking just today about how much we wish it was cold enough to fire it up ( had a couple small burns recently when the temps dipped). The burn time will come and we will be happy.

What model is it that you came across? And how much?