Woodstock versus Hearthstone

Hey, Highbeam, I appreciate that post. As it happens, I just left the Hearthstone site (again), and decided to look at all the stoves (including their cast iron stoves). Anyway, I have seen alot here about the Heritage. Mind if I ask what you paid for it? I think I saw a post it costs $800 more than the Fireview.

One has to admit Woodstock's current sale, low shipping fees, added to the current fed tax rebate makes the FV a good deal. All of the WS stoves actually. Of course all other stoves have the fed thing, too.

I have neither . . . but when the day comes I will be among the first to buy the "Heriview" . . . or maybe it will be the "Firetage" -- a soapstone stove with the double walls, cat converter and customer service of Woodstock . . . but with the more stodgy, practical look (i.e. less ornate) metal work, double door and top vent of the Hearthstone Heritage . . . now I just have to wait until Woodstock builds "this" stove . . . and then I will be very, very tempted to trade in my beloved Oslo.

Don't forget to ask for the automatic thermostat too Jake.

I bought my heritage about 2.5 years ago and paid under 2000$ for it. The dealership was closing up and liquidatign inventory. I discovered that the manufacturer is great and that I don't need a dealer. They forked it into my truck. For several reasons, you won't get that price today. Look at:

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hsherit.htm

for decent pricing on all hearthstone models and if you're considering cast iron, do yourself a favor and consider the PE alderlea line also sold at that site.

If my hearth was big enough I would have bought a fireview a couple of months ago during their big sale. I measured carefully and found that the hearth requirements for that stove on a flat wall are huge. Not only is the hearth huge but the stove would have to stick way out in the room. The rear exit flue is the killer. I really like everything else about the stove and the company. Even the price is very good.

Actually lay the hearth out on your floor and consider the flue location. If you can live with the real estate consumed by the stove then the WS is great. My heritage is running right now and it has always done exactly what the literature says it will and never disappointed.

Hold on guys, they are working on it.

Highbeam,

What a fantastic web site for buying stoves. They have done more work to explain the details than any other merchant site I have seen. Thanks.

Tom Oyen, the owner, is a member here and a great resource. The articles section is also quite good. Funny how Tom's site will often have more current data available than even the manufacturer's site.

I appreciate his site and his willingness to mail you a stove. I would rather go pick it up but it's the principle.

I enjoyed that link very much, too, Highbeam. I was particularly impressed by the tribute to their departed co-worker. And so I'm not surprised by the commitment to doing "good business". It's a great website, obviously one that's received a lot of attention and is always being tweaked.

Eee gads, I thought I was only person who was obsessing over which stove to choose...a Fireview or a Heritage? Two months ago I visited a Hearthstone dealer and almost decided on a Heritage. Then I looked at WS's website and really liked the look of their Fireview. After much mental going back and forth, and that's putting it mildly (seems rather silly over a stove), I finally ordered a Fireview. Ahhh. Decision made. I can now relax. But, just when I thought I had it all sorted out, bam, another factor entered the picture, or I should say view, of the fire that is. I was visiting a friend two nights ago who happened to have a Heritage burning in her house. One of the features of her stove I really liked was that you could open the front door and "sit in front of the fire" while in the room. Seeing (and hearing) the fire through an open door (she has a snap in screen) was so much more enjoyable to me than just viewing it through the glass when the door was closed. Must have something to do with sitting in front the fireplace as a kid. My dilema now is that my Fireview is due to arrive this week. I found this hearth.com site just tonight and read through a lot of the posts and didn't see any posts about the this issue, i.e., viewing the fire with the door open. Did anyone else have this as a consideration when they choose their stove? If I stick with the Fireview, will my desire subside over time? Or, is all of this much a do about nothing. Please don't suggest a shrink, I can't afford one. ;-) .

Loper said:

Seeing (and hearing) the fire through an open door (she has a snap in screen) was so much more enjoyable to me than just viewing it through the glass when the door was closed. Must have something to do with sitting in front the fireplace as a kid. My dilema now is that my Fireview is due to arrive this week. I found this hearth.com site just tonight and read through a lot of the posts and didn't see any posts about the this issue, i.e., viewing the fire with the door open. Did anyone else have this as a consideration when they choose their stove? If I stick with the Fireview, will my desire subside over time? Or, is all of this much a do about nothing. Please don't suggest a shrink, I can't afford one. ;-) .

Click to expand...

I did have this as a consideration. I've always loved campfires and fireplaces. Who doesn't? As a kid I would open up the front doors of our VC Defiant wood stove late at night and watch the logs burn to coals. So it was with mixed feeling I decided to "ruin" our biggest fireplace with a stove last year. And when I got this stove I was excited to get the front screen. But as I recently posted in another thread (Open door fire viewing), we've used it just once. We still have two other fireplaces we haven't used at all since the stove went in! To play shrink here (no charge) you are suffering from combustion anxiety. The suggested course of treatment is simply to pull a chair around to the side of your Woodstock and watch a few very small fires with the side door open. This will cure you. To cure the stove you may want to close the door.

I still enjoy getting a "fireplace fix" when I'm away, but at home I've found the view through the front glass to be totally satisfying, and many others report the same. So relax and enjoy your Fireview - literally.

It sounds like you are suffering from buyers remorse. I suffer from it often. I've been looking at Blaze King and wondering if I made a mistake. Nope, their still friggin ugly! With the money you saved buying a Fireview over a Heritage, go buy the biggest outdoor Firepit you can find. You will use it 100x more than the screen on a stove. Once a year if you're lucky and then it will be 10 years and you'll find that screen in the garage and say, oh yeah, I can watch the fire.

One downside of the Fireview (as has been conveyed by users) is the lack of
sufficient heat in applications where high BTU's are required (poor insulation, lots of Sq. Ft., etc.)
In those cases, Hearthstone wins out, with larger models that fit that bill.

Again, it all depends on your application.

opening the door while burning is a quick way to burn extremely inefficiently, and buildup creosote in the flue. I would NEVER, EVER run my Heritage w/ the door open :ahhh:

Burning w/ the door wide open is something that should not be done, EVER, on an EPA stove.

Edthedawg said:

Burning w/ the door wide open is something that should not be done, EVER, on an EPA stove.

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Not that big a deal. I wouldn't make a frequent habit of it, but a few hours here and there, no problems. Everytime you start a fire, or re-load, you burn inefficiently for a period of time. Even an EPA stove can't please the EPA all the time.

oh i know it. i do whatever i can to get thru the smokey-startup period as fast as possible. good wood is an essential part of the equation. cracking the door open for a few seconds to increase the "wind" on a reload is a great way to get the big flames swirling in the box, but once it's ripping, i could never see running w/ a door open - cracked or wide. but hey, to each his own, i guess... don't expect much sympathy from Hearthstone if it overfires

Turns out that some EPA stoves are designed to be capable of open door burning. They are sold as such and the screen can be bought. The heritage is not one of these stoves and you stand to damage the stove by burning with open door.

Don't give points to the heritage for that feature. The door glass is freaking huge and the fire display is great, just not an open door.

I was making the same decision and ran across a troubling article about Heritage stoves having quality control problems. I wish I had listened. I wanted to think "it won't happen to me" ... but it did. Now I have a $5000 eye sore that just reminds me of how much I wish I had stuck with my (non EPA) Jotul combifire 4. Now I have an EPA cert stove that produces 100% smoke, no heat, and cannot hold a fire. Winter is 1 month away and the company wants nothing to do with it.

Avoid the heritage. Actually, my advice is, if you have a working stove, stick with it. I decided to change my reliable 50% efficiency 2-chamber stove to take advantage of the stimulus tax credit. I bitterly regret my decision. EPA stoves may work, or they may not. I think the technology is simply ahead of the manufacturing capability. For $5000 I don't want to be a test Guinea pig, I want a product that works.

Alex,

I just responded to your other posting in "Heritage - fire won't stay lit" (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42860/P22/)

Hopefully you will make your own new thread so we can help We hear your frustration - but there's a whole lotta factors we'd like to help you work thru.

If you're intending to leave the stove at the curb, just lemme know when and where :lol:

Edthedawg said:

oh i know it. i do whatever i can to get thru the smokey-startup period as fast as possible. good wood is an essential part of the equation. cracking the door open for a few seconds to increase the "wind" on a reload is a great way to get the big flames swirling in the box, but once it's ripping, i could never see running w/ a door open - cracked or wide. but hey, to each his own, i guess... don't expect much sympathy from Hearthstone if it overfires

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I wouldn't think of a cracked or fully open door for the early side of the main burn (other than that quick initial draft you mention). But after the fire has been going a long while and approaching the coaling stage, you can just open up the front and make a fireplace. Yes, there goes your efficient burn. But there is a huge difference between a cracked door and fully opened front: a crack will draft and overfire you, while a wide open front kills the draft and can actually cool the stove down. At least on all the stoves I've seen that have fully opening fronts with a screen option.

I am a novice to woodstoves, but here goes.

I too am trying to decide which stove to go with; Hearthstone Heritage or the Woodstock Fireview. I can purchase the Heritage for $2800 plus tax from a local dealer and the Fireview for $2544 directly from Woodstock. They are close in price so I am now looking at other variables to hopefully help in making my decision.

A couple concerns I have:

1. I'm not able to actually see the Fireview because according to Woodstock they have no dealers or distributors. You deal directly with the factory (which can be a good thing as it can keep the price down). But I would still like to check it out.

2. Woodstock doesn't make any blower accessories for their stoves. (I've heard you need one. You don't need one. etc....)

I've never seen a soapstone wood burner is action, so I am not sure what to expect. The only thing I know is there are tons of pros for soapstone and very few cons. (the major con seems to be price - as they are costly).


Any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Just a couple of comments rmrogers6... The WS is probably the better value since there isn't the middle man. Look around here for reviews from owners and I think it will be very clear one of the two has many more positive reviews and comments than the other, so rest assure you'll be getting a great stove even if you cant see it beforehand.

You don't need a blower with these stoves, so don't be concerned about that.

Soapstone tends to take longer to heat up but takes longer to cool down, which will even out the burn cycle. The cat in the WS will smooth out the peaks and valleys even more, plus it will burn longer at a low setting. The biggest cons to soapstone are they take longer to heat up and they are prone to cracking if over-fired or not properly broken in. The pros are they are pretty (in some people's eyes anyway) and they hold their heat longer.

The only real concern I'd have about the WS FV are the clearances that stoves requires. If that's not an issue, I'd quickly choose it over the HSH.

Well on #1: Perhaps you can get woodstock to refer you to a local owner or maybe an owner on this site will chime in. I find the iron castings a bit too lacey for my liking but I would get over it for the cat. There are some great photo threads on this site with multiple angles and views.

2) You don't need a blower. These are radiant stoves and the blower will just make noise. I certainly don't feel the need to buy a blower for my heritage even though I already own the rear heat shield which it attaches to. The beauty in woodburning is the silence which produces so much heat.

There is a negative to the soapstone which is the slow warm up and low upper temp rules. These stoves are great if you keep them warm but if you come home to a cold house and want to heat it up quickly the stone hurts you. It's just easier to make fast heat with a steel stove.

If your lifestyle allows you to keep your home and stove warm then the stone is a great feature and it looks great. The price of these stoves is higher but when compared to other high quality cast iron or steel stoves it isn't out of line.

I’ve never seen a soapstone wood burner is action, so I am not sure what to expect.

Click to expand...

Here's a great video of a Fireview's secondary burn from one of the members here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDAhlBGW-Y


Mike

RMRogers - Have you talked to the folks at Woodstock yet? They may be able to point you to someone in the area with a stove willing to show it to you. You never know... in any case lots of pictures around here (I know, far from actually seeing the stove in action!).

As to the blower - What is your intended installation? I don't know of any FV owners who have said "gee I wish this had a blower". Granted I've only had mine running for a month or so, but I certainly don't feel the need for a blower. In fact, I rather am glad for it simply because I wanted a silent heater that didn't burn any electricity.

re: Soapstone in action. Well, they are different. I'm not certain that they are hands down better than any other material as it really is a matter of preference. There are some who love the looks, and others who don't. Also, the burn characteristics may or may not be to your liking depending on how you burn. IF you are looking for a quick "take the chill off for an hour" once in a while type of pattern it isn't likely to be for you. I tend to think it is a better material for my 24/7 plans and desire to have heat that goes on well after the fire is out, but again this is individual preference. You certainly can get 24/7 performance and long burns from non-stone stoves too.

The bigger difference here between the Heritage and Woodstock stoves is the cat. This is a feature that you simply need to really understand before you make your decision. It makes more of a difference than the material of the stove, although I tend to believe that the stone helps work with the cat in the FV to enhance the benefits of both. Again - you don't have to go stone to get a good cat stove either (take a look at the Blaze King line for example of top tier long-burning cat stove in steel).

What does the cat get you? Well the key benefit that is basically undisputed is you get the ability to 'dial down' the heat output of the stove for longer burns with lower heat output while still maintaining a clean efficient burn. The main time this is useful for everyone is in the shoulder seasons (like now). If your home doesn't require the heat output of the stove even in the colder part of the winter you also can use this to moderate the output a bit easier than a non-cat stove. When running full-bore maximum heat output you can still get tons of heat out of the cat stove, but then the cat isn't necessarily giving you as much benefit as the non-cat models... except that some believe that you may be burning more efficiently (i.e. less wood). It is hard to really know if the difference here is really material or not - certainly the difference between a modern non-cat and cat stove isn't going to be 2:1, however there may well be a few % points difference - depending of course on so many factors in fuel, setup, and stove operation that the argument will never really be settled.

The main downside of the cat stoves that you should know about is that the fire is different - when burning low you may not have any flame at all - it may even look like the fire is out. Takes some getting used to. You also have to learn to one more step in managing your stove (engage/disengage the cat). For some folks this is too complicated - I think most folks are capable of figuring this out pretty quickly. The last thing that is often cited as a problem with cat stoves is having to replace the cat periodically. Yes you will have to do this maintenance - however in the FV it is trivial to do and I suspect that the long term cost isn't likely to break the bank for anyone. Even at 120 each if you replaced it every 4 years that is $30/year which isn't much compared to your fuel costs or savings (depending on how you get your wood).

Search around - you will find the religious debates on both the soapstone vs other materials and the cat vs non-cat issues. Just wait to you ask about an OAK (outside air kit)

Hiya All, I've been shopping around for a stove for a couple of weeks. There really is quite a bit to consider with the purchase. I almost mail ordered a Vermont Castings right off the bat (I was in the market a decade ago and remembered their sterling reputation) but thankfully never got around to it. I've been looking in the stove shops and nothing jumped out at me until I saw the Hearthstones. The Seafoam color Tribute was the sharpest looking stove in the place. Something about how the color meshed with the soapstone. It's art. It wasn't for sale somebody had special ordered it. I asked the salesman about ordering one and he replied that I'd be paying MSRP and maybe shipping as well, he'd talk it over with his boss. I told him not to bother, thanked him for his time and left.

As far as I'm concerned it's about the deal. I want value.

Still, I really wanted that stove. I did a little more research on soapstone stoves and stumbled upon Woodstock. Once again I'm glad I held out.

Here's the comparison I came up with.

Brand MSRP Heating Area Burn Time FireBox Size BTU's

Heritage $3159 1900 SF 8 Hours 2.3 CF 55,000

Tribute $1999 1300 SF 7 Hours 1.2 CF 36,000

Fireview $2419 1600 SF 10-12 Hours 2.18 CF 55,000

Keystone $2279 1300 SF 8-10 Hours 1.4 CF 45,000

To be fair, both the Hearthstone models can be purchased for $250 less than the prices I've stated if you purchase the Matte Black finish. Also the Woodstock Models have all been discounted $300. I expect they are pretty much always discounted $300 so that's the price I'm going with.

The comparison raises some questions.

The Heritage is priced $700 more than the Fireview. It has a slightly larger firebox and a much shorter burn time. Why is that?

There is an $1150 price difference between the Heritage and the Tribute. Why is there only a $150 price difference between the Fireview and Keystone?

Here's why I'm going with Woodstock.

I dislike the dealers, they really do seem like used car salesmen. No offense meant to the many helpful dealers that add so much to this site. I've read many of your posts and they've all been to benefit, I just can't seem to find that helpful enthusiasm at the brick and mortar stores.

I will not pay sticker price, let alone sticker price plus shipping. I doubt very much you can get any kind of deal on a Heritage or Tribute with the porcelain enamel.

I live in New England and can pick up at the Woodstock plant. I can see why many would shy away from the shipping charges let alone buy a stove sight unseen.

I can go to the plant and pick my choice of colors, as well as choose my own soapstone. That is a truly awesome thing. It's like they're hand crafting a stove just for you, all for no extra charge. If you show up at Hearthstone and ask for the same they throw stone dust on you and call you a stove nerd. Very unprofessional.

Not only do they paint the stove at no charge but they do the same for any stovepipe you buy from them so you get a matching set. It's a one stop shop. I can get all the materials I need at a discount.

I'm going to wait for the annual spring sale, Yep, I know all about it, I've read every Woodstock post on this site for the past 5 years. I'm hoping to walk out of there with a Keystone for $1900 and maybe another $600 for the stovepipe and chimney. That's the goal anyway, we'll see what it works out to.

Anything I buy there is tax free. Deval Patrick and his crooked 6.25% tax hiking cronies can lick my nuggies. I'm actually excited about the whole proposition. It's like Christmas on your birthday the same day you win the Lotto. On top of the seriously discounted stove and the tax free savings I'll get the tax rebate on top of it. After paying for installation it should be around a grand. Not too shabby.