removing thermostat cover on BK Princess free-standing (not insert)

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RustyShackleford

RustyShackleford

Minister of Fire
Jan 6, 2009
1,341
NC
I want to just have a look at the thermostat to make sure the knob is positioned
correctly (since there is slippage in the shaft). I'm not going to touch anything.

I have removed the two square-drive screws at the back, but the thing still seems
firmly attached on the side that's up against the rear of the stove. I don't think there
are any other fasteners.

Thanks.
 
Rusty, the cover on my 1990 vintage Princess is a bit of a "jam" fit. All that attaches the protective cover are the two screws, but the cover itself has to be walked off after the screws are removed (a bit of a trick getting it back on, and screw holes aligned, get a flashlight).
If you cannot work it off by hand, take a stick and mallet and tap it up gently, first one side then the other. If you prefer to leave the cover on, you can find the open and closed position of the damper butterfly by listening carefully as you turn the knob. The butterfly will "clunk" when it closes as you turn it counterclockwise (butterfly closed) then turn the control knob clockwise until you feel resistance (butterfly full open) I suppose you could remove the knob and position it to be accurate on the scale, or just wing it now that you know the position.
NOTE: Do this when the stove is cold or you will not get an accurate reading, the bi-metalic coil moves the butterfly with the temp of the stove.
There is no adjustment that I'd try inside the cover, but I do like to inspect it yearly to make sure nothing has nested in there that would interfere with the butterfly operating freely.
 
stockcarver said:
Rusty, the cover on my 1990 vintage Princess is a bit of a "jam" fit. All that attaches the protective cover are the two screws, but the cover itself has to be walked off after the screws are removed (a bit of a trick getting it back on, and screw holes aligned, get a flashlight).
If you cannot work it off by hand, take a stick and mallet and tap it up gently, first one side then the other.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried this, whacking on each side in turn. But it just kept pivoting about whatever was
holding it in the center, and it seemed like no progress was made.

If you prefer to leave the cover on, you can find the open and closed position of the damper butterfly by listening carefully as you turn the knob. The butterfly will "clunk" when it closes as you turn it counterclockwise (butterfly closed) then turn the control knob clockwise until you feel resistance (butterfly full open)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I can hear both ends of the range, so I'll leave well enough alone for now.
 
Its quite possible the new stoves have some additonal method of keeping people out of there.

If the stove is cold when you listen for the opening and closing, you should be able to reset the knob to zero at the point you hear it close.

If the stove is warm, it will give you a false zero point.
 
stockcarver said:
If the stove is cold when you listen for the opening and closing, you should be able to reset the knob to zero at the point you hear it close.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it makes more sense to calibrate it to the fully-open position ?
That "clink" sound seems to be more audible too.

If the stove is warm, it will give you a false zero point.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I understand that - thanks for the reminder.
 
Rusty - On my King it is just 2 screws holding the cover on. Try and get a good grip on the bottom of the cover and pull the bottom out, the cover should then rotate up and off pivoting on the top corners.
 
Thanks LTB, I'll try again.

HERE is what I want - the cover is a piece of tempered glass. You can SEE what position
the butterfly is in at any given time. Or some other way of knowing its ACTUAL position,
not just the setting.
 
Cool Idea, I'm not sure how you could make the whole cover glass, but I suppose you could modify the current cover buy cutting out a thin strip from the top and placing a piece of tempered glass in with high temp silicone.
 
As soon as the heat demand changes in the house, doesn't it make it pointless anyway? For example, the tstat doesn't know the sun just went down and its getting cooler in the house. It only knows how much heat its master told it to put out. Turning the fan on or adjusting the speed also makes a big difference. Seems to all be relative and the markings are just there to give us something to talk about.
 
SolarAndWood said:
As soon as the heat demand changes in the house, doesn't it make it pointless anyway? For example, the tstat doesn't know the sun just went down and its getting cooler in the house. It only knows how much heat its master told it to put out.
Click to expand...

True, good point. But putting out a constant heat is still an improvement over most stoves.

Seems to all be relative and the markings are just there to give us something to talk about.
Click to expand...

Yes. My problem is that the normal adjustment range is only a little less than half-a-turn of the
shaft (from photograph North-of-60 posted on my "break-in fire" thread). But the shaft on mine turns
a little over 3/4 turn. So I'm wondering what portion of that rotation is meant to correspond to the 1/2/3,
and if I turn it past that, does it mess up the calibration, so how does one re-calibrate ?
 
RustyShackleford said:
SolarAndWood said:
Seems to all be relative and the markings are just there to give us something to talk about.
Click to expand...

Yes. My problem is that the normal adjustment range is only a little less than half-a-turn of the
shaft (from photograph North-of-60 posted on my "break-in fire" thread). But the shaft on mine turns
a little over 3/4 turn. So I'm wondering what portion of that rotation is meant to correspond to the 1/2/3,
and if I turn it past that, does it mess up the calibration, so how does one re-calibrate ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely no argument about the tstat, it rocks. The normal range on the king is the same way. Maybe I am missing something, I just adjust the thermostat to where I want the cat thermometer to read. If I have a load of crap wood in and the fans on, the tstat has to be turned up to achieve the same point on the thermometer relative to good wood with the fans off. It has been pretty simple so far, turn the tstat up enough to keep the cat active and enjoy the crazy long burns even with crap wood.

I may be wrong, but from what I have read, the tstat either works or not. And when it fails, it shuts the air down and you replace it. Until then, it is a relative adjustment that you make based on the heat you need for any given burn cycle.
 
SolarAndWood said:
RustyShackleford said:
SolarAndWood said:
Seems to all be relative and the markings are just there to give us something to talk about.
Click to expand...

Yes. My problem is that the normal adjustment range is only a little less than half-a-turn of the
shaft (from photograph North-of-60 posted on my "break-in fire" thread). But the shaft on mine turns
a little over 3/4 turn. So I'm wondering what portion of that rotation is meant to correspond to the 1/2/3,
and if I turn it past that, does it mess up the calibration, so how does one re-calibrate ?
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but from what I have read, the tstat either works or not. And when it fails, it shuts the air down and you replace it. Until then, it is a relative adjustment that you make based on the heat you need for any given burn cycle.
Click to expand...

I get your point. What I'm saying is, if I can rotate the thing more that the less-than-half-a-turn
that is on the gauge (with the 1/2/3/ numbers), am I *slipping* something - that is, is the
adjustment shaft slipping at the place it connects to the mechanism ? So that a "2" is not
the same setting as it was before I rotated the thing too far ?
 
Is it possible to rotate it too far? Don't you hit hard end stops at high and low?
 
Rusty- No you are not slipping in the mechanism. The normal turn range is just about 1 full turn.

Example - On My King, Fully turned clockwise My dial sits at a mark past the 3. I call it 3.5/highest setting. That setting on my stove points to about 5 o'clock. Setting #1 sits at 12 o'clock. The T-stat knob will still turn clockwise to about 6:30 - 7 o'clock.

With a well established fire you should still get enough air on the 1 setting to maintain the cat in the active zone assuming the cat is in good shape. On this setting the flap still works with the coil opening and closing to maintain the temp setting. When you get to the fully closed position the coil can no longer open and close the flap for air intake basically smothering the fire so it will go out.

This does not mess up the calibration.

Hope this is clear.
 
learnin to burn said:
Rusty- No you are not slipping in the mechanism. The normal turn range is just about 1 full turn.

Example - On My King, Fully turned clockwise My dial sits at a mark past the 3. I call it 3.5/highest setting. That setting on my stove points to about 5 o'clock. Setting #1 sits at 12 o'clock. The T-stat knob will still turn clockwise to about 6:30 - 7 o'clock.

With a well established fire you should still get enough air on the 1 setting to maintain the cat in the active zone assuming the cat is in good shape. On this setting the flap still works with the coil opening and closing to maintain the temp setting. When you get to the fully closed position the coil can no longer open and close the flap for air intake basically smothering the fire so it will go out.

This does not mess up the calibration.

Hope this is clear.
Click to expand...

It is - thanks.
 
learnin to burn said:
With a well established fire you should still get enough air on the 1 setting to maintain the cat in the active zone assuming the cat is in good shape.
Click to expand...

The only time I find this to be true is when I am burning pine, especially if the fans are running.
 
Solar - For the sack of the conversation I didn't get into all the details of how to make that work.

It's my understanding from BK That the 1 setting will maintain the cat in the active zone under certain conditions.

Conditions = Cat is in good shape IE- not clogged with ash or creosote, Wood moisture under 18 percent, The stove has been run on 3 or first mark below 3 for over an hour. Then it is possible to drop all the way down to 1 slowly.

As the manual stats if the cat goes out on a setting of 1.5 or 1.75 the cat needs to be cleaned.
 
Gotcha learnin. Just think the lab condition recommendations can lead to frustration in reality conditions. My cat is clean and the wood is dry. From what I have seen, it would take ideal conditions to make 1 work. My wood is scrounged and every species in central NY is represented. It seems to take different settings to get the same output from load to load depending on the mix. Not a big deal, just need to set the tstat to where it gives you the output you are looking for. And certainly, if you need a lot of air to keep dry wood burning in the active zone, it is time to check the cat.

I also find that at the end of the burn, you have to rake out the corners and pile it to both keep the cat active and burn the remainder of the fuel for the last 3 to 4 hours of the burn.
 
My insert will keep the cat active down almost as far as it will turn. I did that for the first time last night before bed after loading 5 modestly sized oak and locust logs. I was amazed to find a still active cat and intact (though barely) logs 8 hours later. As in, the logs were still together enough that I could restack them more tightly. I am astounded at how long and how hot this stove will burn with just a few logs in the firebox. Within 20 minutes of lighting I am up to temp where I can engage the cat, and 10 minutes later I'm cranking out a crazy amount of heat. I could not be more impressed unless the stove was going out and getting the logs from my woodpile.
 
Patapsco Mike said:
My insert will keep the cat active down almost as far as it will turn. I did that for the first time last night before bed after loading 5 modestly sized oak and locust logs. I was amazed to find a still active cat and intact (though barely) logs 8 hours later. As in, the logs were still together enough that I could restack them more tightly. I am astounded at how long and how hot this stove will burn with just a few logs in the firebox. Within 20 minutes of lighting I am up to temp where I can engage the cat, and 10 minutes later I'm cranking out a crazy amount of heat.
Click to expand...

I agree - on my just installed BK Princess (free-standing). Much better performance than my Dutchwest catalytic,
even when it was new. And this is with single-wall stovepipe; I wanted to jury rig it and test how far from the
stucco'd cinderblock wall it could be (and not mess up the thermostat operation, another thread). Right now it's
2.5" and seems to work ok. I'm really wondering if I need to double-wall, given that the cat is stayinac active all
night on what APPEARS to be the "1" setting.

I could not be more impressed unless the stove was going out and getting the logs from my woodpile.
Click to expand...

LOL !
 
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