PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Just an update before I am away for the week. I spoke to Cory from PE and he made some calls and called me back. This what he had to say:

-the stove is in transit to the distributor;
-the distributor's welder is going to take a look at it, and this welder is well versed on PE products (He stated that the other welder might not be that familiar with PE products);
-on Monday Cory is going to conference with the distributor and the distributor's welder to see the course of action;
-if it can be fixed properly, it will be, and he would extend my 5 year comprehensive warranty; and
-if it cannot be fixed properly, I will get a new firebox.

Anyway, there is not much that I can do now, so I will wait and see what happens.
 
Sounds like a reasonable approach. Have a good week!
 
Well that sounds pretty good Sisu (progress at least). The only thing that sounds a bit off is to say "the other welder might not be that familiar with PE products". Should it really matter that much what the exact item is that a professional welder is looking at? Isn't it just a matter of the welder looking at the metal object (whatever it is) and deciding if it can be welded successfully? It seems a bit more like he means to say: "well, we were ok with a local welder fixing it but if he doesn't think he can then we want one of OUR welders to take a look to see if there's any way we can get by with a re-weld fix rather than actually having to replace it." I completely understand a business trying to avoid needing to do a total replacement but by the end of this they're going to have spent 2x what it would've cost to just replace it from the begining... A delayed process isn't very customer friendly at this time of (cold) year either.

Good Hunting!
 
Sisu said:
Just an update before I am away for the week. I spoke to Cory from PE and he made some calls and called me back. This what he had to say:

-the stove is in transit to the distributor;
-the distributor's welder is going to take a look at it, and this welder is well versed on PE products (He stated that the other welder might not be that familiar with PE products);
-on Monday Cory is going to conference with the distributor and the distributor's welder to see the course of action;
-if it can be fixed properly, it will be, and he would extend my 5 year comprehensive warranty; and
-if it cannot be fixed properly, I will get a new firebox.

Anyway, there is not much that I can do now, so I will wait and see what happens.

Listen guy, you're going hunting while I'm going to work...I don't think I give a dang how your stove turns out any more. May all your wound chanels plug with fat and all your time be spent looking for nonexistent blood trails.

JK man have a good hunt. Update us on the stove and any trophies when you get back. In the meantime, we will spout opinions on the matter and fill up a couple more pages of this thread with blather that makes little or no differance to anyone involved.

Make versus country your country
 
meathead said:
Sisu said:
Just an update before I am away for the week. I spoke to Cory from PE and he made some calls and called me back. This what he had to say:

-the stove is in transit to the distributor;
-the distributor's welder is going to take a look at it, and this welder is well versed on PE products (He stated that the other welder might not be that familiar with PE products);
-on Monday Cory is going to conference with the distributor and the distributor's welder to see the course of action;
-if it can be fixed properly, it will be, and he would extend my 5 year comprehensive warranty; and
-if it cannot be fixed properly, I will get a new firebox.

Anyway, there is not much that I can do now, so I will wait and see what happens.

Listen guy, you're going hunting while I'm going to work...I don't think I give a dang how your stove turns out any more. May all your wound chanels plug with fat and all your time be spent looking for nonexistent blood trails.

JK man have a good hunt. Update us on the stove and any trophies when you get back. In the meantime, we will spout opinions on the matter and fill up a couple more pages of this thread with blather that makes little or no differance to anyone involved.

Make versus country your country

Not a problem!! I hopefully I will catch something other than swine flu! The best scenario would be to have some meat in the freezer and the wood stove kicking out the BTUs.

Feel free to fill up more pages on this thread with blather! I would expect no less! :) Just kidding. Hopefully, others will have reports, in the meantime, on what are happening with their stoves and warranty claims. With my luck, by the time I get back, everyone else will be sitting by their brand spanking new stoves; while mine will have to be sent to Australia by sailing ship to inspected by a crack team of expert welders for further assessment as to whether or not welding the internal cracks will or will not cause a rift in the universe.
 
Waiting to see how this turns out. Looks like PE is doing the right thing now, but too bad these folks have had to wait so long!

We have a 1 year old PE vista insert, that we love, and that so far, has no signs of cracks.

RE: overfiring - we have only a magnetic gauge above the door, but frequently see it go up in the 800+ degree range, after filling the firebox, and burning somewhere between high to med air for 10-20 minutes, before choking it down, unsuallyu in a couple of steps, to low air for the next several hours.

As stated in another thread, I even called PE to discuss these temps. Although their guy would not tell me the limits of safe temps, he did say that I was fine doing what I was doing.. He defined overfiring as burning through a full load of fuel in something like 4 hours or less. This would likely mean med - high air the whole time. Of course, most of us try to cut the air back, to increase burn times, so I thiks I am fine. Although my "rutland" type magentic gauge is meant for the stove pipe (so I ignore the yellow and red oevrfiring warnings, as thye apply to stove pipe), it is accurate, as I have checked it with a handheld.. although it only reads up to 650. Up to then, the two are bang on.

Hopefully this was a specific period of poor welding / poor Quality control, that PE has since fixed. In times like these, I feel that a manufacturer should stand up and say that they did have an issue... it is not fixed, and thye will correct any problems arising from it. Take the high road, and you will have many PE fans, and customers!!
 
Northeaster1 said:
Waiting to see how this turns out. Looks like PE is doing the right thing now, but too bad these folks have had to wait so long!

We have a 1 year old PE vista insert, that we love, and that so far, has no signs of cracks.

RE: overfiring - we have only a magnetic gauge above the door, but frequently see it go up in the 800+ degree range, after filling the firebox, and burning somewhere between high to med air for 10-20 minutes, before choking it down, unsuallyu in a couple of steps, to low air for the next several hours.

As stated in another thread, I even called PE to discuss these temps. Although their guy would not tell me the limits of safe temps, he did say that I was fine doing what I was doing.. He defined overfiring as burning through a full load of fuel in something like 4 hours or less. This would likely mean med - high air the whole time. Of course, most of us try to cut the air back, to increase burn times, so I thiks I am fine. Although my "rutland" type magentic gauge is meant for the stove pipe (so I ignore the yellow and red oevrfiring warnings, as thye apply to stove pipe), it is accurate, as I have checked it with a handheld.. although it only reads up to 650. Up to then, the two are bang on.

Hopefully this was a specific period of poor welding / poor Quality control, that PE has since fixed. In times like these, I feel that a manufacturer should stand up and say that they did have an issue... it is not fixed, and thye will correct any problems arising from it. Take the high road, and you will have many PE fans, and customers!!

My insert was made in 2006, and I am pretty sure the issues are with stoves made in the 2006-2007 time period.
I am happy with PE & Cory stepping up to the plate. Did not even attempt to mention over fire. So They are not trying to weasel out with that route.
I am thinking maybe had a stoner doing the eternal hand welding ;).

My only beef at this point would be the QC guys that obviously didn't even look at it, well the first two anyways. As I posted earlier, the "check boxes" on the check list were merely a few scribbled up & down touching all the boxes. The last guy seemed to have done his job and checked each one, as if he actually looked at each thing and checked them off as he did.
I'm ok with the rewelds, but if any more go bad, I am going to want a new firebox.
 
This is why I'm a really big fan of the way Quad does their baffle, the ceramic board holds up to the heat and while the front edge of the board takes a beating you don't have warping problems which is nice. However my first 3100i did have some cracking problems at a weld.
 
SON OF A B!@CH my summit is cracking too!!!!!
I got cracks top corners of the doors will try to get pics later today and will be calling my dealer as well.
Bought the stove 1/25/2008. will look on the sticker to see when it was made.

edited to add:
Made in March of 2007
 
Update:
Set up for tomorrow for the Ironworker to come over after work and take care of the Summit.
I'll keep yall posted.
 
Hogwildz said:
Update:
Set up for tomorrow for the Ironworker to come over after work and take care of the Summit.
I'll keep yall posted.

If you can manage it, it would be super helpful is good documentation and photos of the locations of the weld cracks and the repairs.
 
BeGreen said:
Hogwildz said:
Update:
Set up for tomorrow for the Ironworker to come over after work and take care of the Summit.
I'll keep yall posted.

If you can manage it, it would be super helpful is good documentation and photos of the locations of the weld cracks and the repairs.

Welp, pretty much documented the cracks in photos earlier in this thread. I'll try and take some during & after repairs also.
The dealer is still going to have to get me a can of paint. Hell, I am even borrowing a welding truck from a friend to make sure this happens, my certified welder neighbor will do the repairs.
I believe in a proactive stance towards anything, so I am not just sitting here waiting, and prolly saving the dealer & PE some coin also. They better pay him at least what they will owe. I am sure I am saving them a few hundred bucks, and even supplying half the stuff. I think I am a pretty damned good customer to be so involved.
 
Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

Edited to add:
I was told it was due to the welding of the air wash and causing a pressure point and it will not crack further (I will keep an eye on this and make sure but I do not see light from the cracks when a fire is going). I was told I could use it this season and bring it in at the end of the heating season and they will send it off or I could bring it in anytime and they would weld it. She told me her contact at PE said it is safe and fine to run in its current condition. She did try to tell me that it only happens when they are put under HIGH heat, but that did not matter.
 
Pictures

sorry about the quality
 

Attachments

  • front of stove.jpg
    front of stove.jpg
    15.2 KB · Views: 405
  • hinge side 3.jpg
    hinge side 3.jpg
    14.3 KB · Views: 392
  • latch side.jpg
    latch side.jpg
    14.3 KB · Views: 384
  • latch side2.jpg
    latch side2.jpg
    11.6 KB · Views: 385
  • stove cracks 007.jpg
    stove cracks 007.jpg
    10.5 KB · Views: 394
OK...I'm not trying to sound like an a$$ here, and maybe this is just me - BUT -

You bought a stove with a 5 yr warranty, and it was defective. Why does it matter you didn't have them install it? The install isn't faulty, the stove is - and that's what you paid for.

It's a lot of work to unhook a stove and haul it somewhere and then haul it back and hook it back up. If it were me, I'd want to spend my free time doing something else while they fixed the problem. And that's coming from someone whose daily driver is a mason dump truck. I have the technology to haul it around...but I wouldn't even know where to start looking for the patience. You didn't go cheap after all, you bought what should have been a good stove - they should take it away and bring back what you paid for. That's my .02

I applaud people like Hog who are proactive about problems like this. Personally, I'm proactive from the other end - if I make a mistake, I do everything I can to make it right without a customer having to ask for anything. If I mess up and they have to spend their time telling me about it, it's time to start giving them back some money. These stove companies are all too glad to take 4 figures for a box of metal - I don't see why anyone should have to be proactive about repairing a faulty stove.
 
crazy_dan said:
Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

This is crazy that we now have 5 different people with this type of issue... Every dealer says the same thing: "they've never seen it before". However, as stated in a previous post that could easily be simply that "most" stove owners don't inspect their stoves in that much detail. Don't you have to stick your head into the firebox and look back towards the front to even see most of these cracks? Not many people are out there sticking their heads into a sooty firebox to look for something they don't expect to find (or need to look for) in the first place.

Did she talk to Cory? Considering they told your dealer rep that they were aware of the problem she should realize that it's not an isolated event and as a responsible dealer she should be contacting all their PE owners to have them check their stoves for similar problems. In all actuality this seems more and more like something that PE should address in some sort of a recall. Expensive for them? Definitely, but also the right thing to do if a trend is being established. I can tell you one thing for sure: If a "known crack issue" (this thread is a good start for evidence) caused excessive stove temperatures and led to a house fire PE would be in for a huge lawsuit. Add a death and were talking multiple millions (not to mention all the bad press causing loss of customers. To me, this seems like PE needs to stop addressing this problem reactively and get proactive...

I also still don't like them saying you need to take the stove in. It's something that you (the customer) did nothing to cause and they should be responsible for making it right. It's not like were talking about a car that can be driven in for warranty work and guess what, if a car couldn't be driven safely due to a defect that made it unsafe to drive to manufacturer/dealer would be paying to tow it from your house.

That PE Super I was looking at is looking less appealing. I wish PE would say it's something they identified and fixed. Even if it actually is the case (that they've fixed an identified issue) it would be expensive to actually "admit it" and have to deal with the tidal wave of warranty issues that would follow for all those previous stoves. I still think it would be a lot cheaper (dollar & reputation wise) than the fire scenario I described though.

Edited: Just read meathead's post (must have posted while I was writing mine). It's probably evident from my post that I completely agree and would tell the dealer & PE to come get it "at my convenience". Also, it's getting a little cold out so they should provide you with a stove to use while yours is getting fixed!
 
Hogwildz said:
BeGreen said:
Hogwildz said:
Update:
Set up for tomorrow for the Ironworker to come over after work and take care of the Summit.
I'll keep yall posted.

If you can manage it, it would be super helpful is good documentation and photos of the locations of the weld cracks and the repairs.

Welp, pretty much documented the cracks in photos earlier in this thread. I'll try and take some during & after repairs also.
The dealer is still going to have to get me a can of paint. Hell, I am even borrowing a welding truck from a friend to make sure this happens, my certified welder neighbor will do the repairs.
I believe in a proactive stance towards anything, so I am not just sitting here waiting, and prolly saving the dealer & PE some coin also. They better pay him at least what they will owe. I am sure I am saving them a few hundred bucks, and even supplying half the stuff. I think I am a pretty damned good customer to be so involved.

Yep, we're lucky to have you on board here too Hog. Not every forum has a magnanimous caveman with a good head on his shoulders! :)

I'd like to see the whole process documented so that it can be presented to PE. Hopefully, soon we can hear of a bulletin being sent out to dealers with instructions of exactly what to watch out for, the cause and the cure. Checked the T6 and so far, no issues but I will be watching this area closely.
 
crazy_dan said:
Pictures

sorry about the quality

Hey! I was actually able to see this picture (probably won't be able to next time though-crazy computer quirk I guess). Just so I have my bearings could you put an "Edit" line on your post to indicate the spacial relationship of the photo? I "looks" like its taken from the inside pointing back towards the front left (side where the door latches). Assuming that were right would it then be just above the height the baffle sits at? Thank you
 
At least PE is making an attempt at honoring their warranty issues... More than alot of companies out there. That gives me peace of mind. Everything these days is mass produced in factories and they are bound to have some issues, that is where the warranty comes in to play. I feel that PE is conducting a good business ethic by taking care of their customers. Keep in mind that the steel and materials they use are not produced by PE but a vendor and this may be very detrimental to their own business with PE and other manufactures, if the quality control at the vendor is slacking then there in lies the problem.. Either way I commend PE on standing by there product, which sounds like in these cases they are.
 
53flyer said:
crazy_dan said:
Called my dealer and she was very helpful. She said she had never heard of that before and mine was the first she had heard of.
She said she would call her contact at PE and get back with me. She called me back in like 5 min. said her contact knew all about it even told her where the cracks should be.
Told me they have a machinewelding shop as part of their business. I was told to bring it in and they will fix it.
I am not real happy with the prospect of wrestling that beast out then back in to the house, but I did not have them install it or deliver it when I bought it.

Anyway I hit the wrong reply button so I will add pictures in a post under this one

This is crazy that we now have 5 different people with this type of issue... Every dealer says the same thing: "they've never seen it before". However, as stated in a previous post that could easily be simply that "most" stove owners don't inspect their stoves in that much detail. Don't you have to stick your head into the firebox and look back towards the front to even see most of these cracks? Not many people are out there sticking their heads into a sooty firebox to look for something they don't expect to find (or need to look for) in the first place.

Did she talk to Cory? Considering they told your dealer rep that they were aware of the problem she should realize that it's not an isolated event and as a responsible dealer she should be contacting all their PE owners to have them check their stoves for similar problems. In all actuality this seems more and more like something that PE should address in some sort of a recall. Expensive for them? Definitely, but also the right thing to do if a trend is being established. I can tell you one thing for sure: If a "known crack issue" (this thread is a good start for evidence) caused excessive stove temperatures and led to a house fire that PE would be in for a huge lawsuit. Add a death and were talking multiple millions (not to mention all the bad press causing loss of customers. To me, this seems like PE needs to stop addressing this problem reactively and get proactive...

I also still don't like them saying you need to take the stove in. It's something that you (the customer) did nothing to cause and they should be responsible for making it right. It's not like were talking about a car that can be driven in for warranty work and guess what, if a car couldn't be driven safely due to a defect that made it unsafe to drive to manufacturer/dealer would be paying to tow it from your house.

That PE Super I was looking at is looking less appealing. I wish PE would say it's something they identified and fixed. Even if it actually is the case (that they've fixed an identified issue) it would be expensive to actually "admit it" and have to deal with the tidal wave of warranty issues that would follow for all those previous stoves. I still think it would be a lot cheaper (dollar & reputation wise) than the fire scenario I described though.

Edited: Just read meathead's post (must have posted while I was writing mine). It's probably evident from my post that I completely agree and would tell the dealer & PE to come get it "at my convenience". Also, it's getting a little cold out so they should provide you with a stove to use while yours is getting fixed!

I can tell you that after spending over $2500 for this stove if cracks appear I will not accept it being simply welded. I will be more than happy to bring it back to the dealer in exchange for another stove in a crate. It is crazy that they are having independent welding shops fix this from a liability and SAFETY standpoint. I can say that I have recommended this stove to everyone who has asked me about it but I can say that after reading about how PE has handled this I will not be so quick to tell everyone to run out and buy one....
 
Something to consider...their welders had first crack at it and it didn't go so good. I'd rather have a local welder - someone who has built a business around good welding and fabricating - get in there and go to work
 
If they develop a busted weld like my old insert did you can't weld it because it is inside the shroud around the thing. The crack in my old, not a PE, stove was hidden by the baffle and inside the shroud and I have no idea how many years it was there before I discovered it.

One of the reasons I didn't buy an insert this time around.
 
Wacky1 said:
At least PE is making an attempt at honoring their warranty issues... More than alot of companies out there. That gives me peace of mind. Everything these days is mass produced in factories and they are bound to have some issues, that is where the warranty comes in to play. I feel that PE is conducting a good business ethic by taking care of their customers. Keep in mind that the steel and materials they use are not produced by PE but a vendor and this may be very detrimental to their own business with PE and other manufactures, if the quality control at the vendor is slacking then there in lies the problem.. Either way I commend PE on standing by there product, which sounds like in these cases they are.

I agree with your thoughts that so far it seems like they're addressing these issues. We really still don't know how well or poorly the end result of these 4 (oops 5 as of today) incidents will be. We also can't get away from the fact that if this small a sample size is having this many issues that it's a potentially a symptom of something bigger. In other words, being "reactive" to customers warranty issues is one thing but at some point this begins to look like more than an isolated incident and PE should be getting "proactive". One or two random occurrences is one thing but in <1 month PE's received 5 occurrence (that we know of). That's a big percentage of failures based on the relatively small sample size of their customers that are represented by this thread. There's also a good chance that 3-4 of these 5 people would have never realized they had a problem if not for a chance encounter with this thread. It stands to prudent reason that there are a great more of these problems out there and a fluke problem goes from being just that "a fluke" to something else at some point as does the manufacturers liability go from a fluke warranty problem to negligence if they know of a potentially dangerous situation and take no action other than a reactive one....

I realize you have a PE as well and if I owned one right now I'd want to think they were doing the right thing as well but I'll "commend" them once it seems like they're doing less reacting and actually taking more initiative (perhaps they already are, we can hope so).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.