I purchased a Napoleon NPI-40 pellet stove in the Spring of 2008 and it is a total lemon. I have had nothing but problem after problem replacing the exhaust fan once and the convection fan 3 times. The pellet dial also burned out in the time I have owned it. I maintain this stove meticulously. The manuafcturer ignores my phone calls and e-mails, and I am now past my warranty. My last blower was replaced at the tail end of last season. I just began using the stove again a few weeks ago and again the noise has come back again. I can't have something fixed that they don't seem to make non-defective parts for. After a short period of time, the bearings go bad in the convection fans and then they start to make unbearable noises. I feel like I am stuck with a very expensive hunk of sheet metal and I don't know what to do with it anymore. I know many others are having trouble and would like to know what is involved with starting a class action suit or would definitely like to join if someone else is pursuing. Thanks. - Kim
Anyone else want to join in or know how to begin a class action suit against Napoleon?
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First, I would get myself to a lawyer and find out IF you can even do it.
If the lawyer says it can be done, make sure you have EVERYTHING you have tried DOCUMENTED.....phone call records, emails, receipts, work orders, service orders, etc, etc.
Then make one last attempt with the dealer you bought the stove from, and explain what you intend on doing if the situation doesn't get resolved (btw, do you want a replacement stove, or a refund??), and that THEY may be named in the suit.
maybe we have some lawyer-types here on the forum that can help.
If the lawyer says it can be done, make sure you have EVERYTHING you have tried DOCUMENTED.....phone call records, emails, receipts, work orders, service orders, etc, etc.
Then make one last attempt with the dealer you bought the stove from, and explain what you intend on doing if the situation doesn't get resolved (btw, do you want a replacement stove, or a refund??), and that THEY may be named in the suit.
maybe we have some lawyer-types here on the forum that can help.
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
Before I paid a lawyer BIG BUCKS. I would document everything you've gone through in writing, take a copy to the dealer and ask for a full refund. It appears that the stove was never "right". Nicely explain that you would like them to chat this Napolean and find out how they are going to split the loss, that does not involve you. Explain that you expect action in a reasonable amount of time, say one week. If you are not satisfied or they choose to do nothing, remind them the next stop is State Consumer Protection, the BBB and the Attorneys General Office. Kindly say you don't want their ticket pulled, but you have had enough.
If they do nothing, the ball is back in your court. You can hire an attorney, or see if the AG will take your case up. I personally don't think there is a class action suit here. You have a lemon, it's not that all their stoves are defective and the manufacturer is doing nothing about it. Recent posts have said the company realizes theyhave a bad batch of stoves out there. The only people that make anything on a CA suit are the attorneys. I was once part of a suit against Ford Motor Credit for commercial loans. We got a check at the end for ......... $0.05. That's right five cents. What you want is personal satisfaction, not a new ride for the lawyer.
If they do nothing, the ball is back in your court. You can hire an attorney, or see if the AG will take your case up. I personally don't think there is a class action suit here. You have a lemon, it's not that all their stoves are defective and the manufacturer is doing nothing about it. Recent posts have said the company realizes theyhave a bad batch of stoves out there. The only people that make anything on a CA suit are the attorneys. I was once part of a suit against Ford Motor Credit for commercial loans. We got a check at the end for ......... $0.05. That's right five cents. What you want is personal satisfaction, not a new ride for the lawyer.
krooser
Minister of Fire
I doubt you could get enough Napoleon owners to get together for a class action lawsuit. Any attorney would want thousands of litigants to join the suit... I doubt if you'd get that many. the attornies want millions of $$$ in damages... and they get 99% and you get pennies.
I would go after the company and the selling dealer plus the manufacturer of every failed component in small claims court. Serve all the owners and officers of the company and also those of the dealer and the suppliers. When they all get a court summons they will take notice and may take you seriously.
I saw one F150 owner do this because his transmission had failed about 3 times... he served papers on the president of Ford Motor Company and every officer plus the dealer I worked for at the time and the service manager and even the mechanic who did the trans work.
It wasn't long and his truck was in the shop and Ford overnite shipped a brand new E4OD trans and gave him extra warranty to boot.
I would go after the company and the selling dealer plus the manufacturer of every failed component in small claims court. Serve all the owners and officers of the company and also those of the dealer and the suppliers. When they all get a court summons they will take notice and may take you seriously.
I saw one F150 owner do this because his transmission had failed about 3 times... he served papers on the president of Ford Motor Company and every officer plus the dealer I worked for at the time and the service manager and even the mechanic who did the trans work.
It wasn't long and his truck was in the shop and Ford overnite shipped a brand new E4OD trans and gave him extra warranty to boot.
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
MButkus said:
Lower limits for small claims vary from state-to-state. You can sue anyone you like, just know that lawyers are $200-$300/hr typically, and know that once sued, the dealer, if there is one, will also "lawyer up" and nothing will get accomplished. I am sincerely hoping you bought this from a dealer and not online. Online sales lend alot more complexity to this issue. The BBB? Most likely no help there. They have no legal sway over anything. Ive seen "lemony" stoves before. Sometimes the manufacturer will extend the warrantee as they fix a known issue. But be warned: I have also seen issues where the homeowner was at fault. Maybe they dont maintain the stove (I know this isnt you), but one guy had no ground, had a few electrical issues in his house......if this happens, its VERY bad for YOU. Imagine paying your own lawyer thousands, then, have this proven to a judge, you lose, and you get to pay HIS lawyer and legal fees as well?! yuck!
Thanks Everyone! I really appreciate the time you took to respond to me. I do have everything documented, and I did go through Zoobler to ask them or Napoleon for a refund, replacement, or even just an extended warranty while I was still under warranty, and they denied it stating that a fan being bad doesn't mean the whole stove is bad. They said everytime you get a fan replaced, you have 3 months on that part. A lot of good that did for me in the Spring. And, this is more than one fan. It would be nice if Napoleon stood by their product and sent someone out to at least inspect and replace the unit if they have "fixed" their issues. There is clearly some sort of design issue. I will seriously take your ideas into consideration and possibly sue in small claims court. I know I do have enough documentation to win. I'd have to find out what the maximum return is to see if it is close to what I paid for the stove, but the truth is I guess any return would be better than nothing. I have also been a party in class action suit where I received virtually nothing after winning. Someone said Napoleon clearly recognize they have a bad batch of stove out there. Can that person let me know where that write-up is? I'm sure it would help my case to have that. Thanks again for all of your help!
Also, yes we did purchase this on the iternet which has made getting parts for this an extreme challenge during the warranty period. I had to wait months for a refund. The deal is you purchase the new part, send back the old, and wait for the refund. We were only able to order warranty parts through the originl dealer, even though I have a local dealer that can order parts for me.
summit
Minister of Fire
kh395269 said:
thats the reason many local dealers don't do wtty work on units they don't sell: they take a hit in both parts and labor to do the work for you, and got none of the gravy from the original sale.... most of my customers don't realize that we have to pay for and stock all these replacement parts to service them, then only get reimbursed for the original dealer cost on the item, and a menial labor rate that does not even cover the mileage to get to your house to do the work.... Next time you get a stove, go with a dealer, not the net... to quote:
"the bitter taste of poor quality and service lasts far longer than the sweet taste of a low price"
To be honest summit, I wanted to give the business to a local dealer, but I just didn't get that warm fuzzy feeling from any around here. They also could not come close to the price I actually paid for the unit. The truth is I feel warranty work on a stove should be like warranty work on a car. You should be able to get the warranty work done from any Ford dealer near you. They don't give you a problem when you go to a different dealerhsip for the work than the dealership where you purchased the car. That attitude truthfully turns me off to local stove dealers. Lucky for me, my husband is also a mechanic, which makes him a very handy guy. Because it was difficult enough to get the parts alone, he just installed the new fans himself. All I wanted to do was obtain the parts locally and I had a hard time with that. I think it's a real shame this industry works that way...
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
kh395269 said:
Well, here we are. Did you get the warm and fuzzies from the On-line dealer? And what are you really saving? Maybe a local dealer who serviced the stove and was familiar with the packet of problems might have been able to work an exchange or return deal. Zoobler has no incentive to be on your side. No worry about local exposure and in many states not covered by consumer protection laws. You may have initially saved something, but it is costing you in the long run.
To say you feel how the warranty should work is totally off the mark. You should have checked the rules before the purchase. Very few things sold today are warranteed in the same way as another industry. Car warrantees have been really beat up by the courts, so they are a little more consumer friendly. If you took your TV back for warrantee work it wouldn't be to a highline store if you bought it at Walmart, same for a fridge or range or your MP3 player.
Frankly, I think you are screwed.... Just my humble opinion.
littlesmokey said:
good points, all.....also, dont forget the fact that when the car breaks you bring it to the dealer...they dont come and fix it at your place.
kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
My comments on this being from a Dealer point of view.
First I do not sell Napoleon pellet stoves.
Second a dealer does make an agreement to do warranty work.
Third a Dealer does not have to come to your house to do the warranty work, Almost all owners manuals have this in writing. You would need to remove the part yourself or bring the stove to the Dealer. Removing the part yourself might void the warranty.
If you buy a stove off the internet, mail order, or anything else you still have to contact them for repairs. Most internet "dealers" do not even stock the stove or parts but have them shipped direct. I am not bashing them just stating that fact.
Forth do not compare the hearth industry to the auto industry. They are very different and do not get Government money except as help with a tax credit and that goes to you.
Eric
First I do not sell Napoleon pellet stoves.
Second a dealer does make an agreement to do warranty work.
Third a Dealer does not have to come to your house to do the warranty work, Almost all owners manuals have this in writing. You would need to remove the part yourself or bring the stove to the Dealer. Removing the part yourself might void the warranty.
If you buy a stove off the internet, mail order, or anything else you still have to contact them for repairs. Most internet "dealers" do not even stock the stove or parts but have them shipped direct. I am not bashing them just stating that fact.
Forth do not compare the hearth industry to the auto industry. They are very different and do not get Government money except as help with a tax credit and that goes to you.
Eric
krooser
Minister of Fire
kinsman stoves said:
I agree with all you say Eric except about "gov't $$$"... only two manufacturers got "our" money...
Back to regularly scheduled programming...
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
kh395269 said:
But zoobler is so cheap to buy from, I dont understand what all the trouble is for? I mean, your local hearth retailer would have charged HUNDREDS more.
Hi All,
I just want to point out that I was not ignorant to how the warranty process would be handled on my stove when I purchased it from Zoobler. However, I really didn't expect to have 5-6 repeat problems in the first year either, and rightfully so. I simply stated how I believed the warranty process should work in a perfect world. I also want to point out that actually Zoobler (for the most part) has been somewhat helpful through this whole process. It is the manufacturer that has been completely irresponsible. I thoroughly researched this stove and had no reason to believe that there would be problems like this. Napoleon had a good reputation at that time. I also did not receive and will not receive any tax credit. Lastly, I did not purchase the stove even a few hundred dollars cheaper than I could have locally. It was several hundred dollars, and that was having it shipped cross country.
I'm not here to have a debate about why I should have bought locally. I didn't. I honestly still don't regret my decision about that, and don't believe that would have changed anything. I know of other people from this forum that have also had their local dealer walk away from them for this same issue. It seems even more obvious to me now that it seems to be a thorn in the side of the dealer to perform any kind of warranty work because they are not making any money on it - very sad. All I want to do now is to either get my stove fixed with the proper parts that will last more than a month or two, replaced, or refunded so I can buy something that does work. Im the one who is the victim here, not my local dealer.
I just want to point out that I was not ignorant to how the warranty process would be handled on my stove when I purchased it from Zoobler. However, I really didn't expect to have 5-6 repeat problems in the first year either, and rightfully so. I simply stated how I believed the warranty process should work in a perfect world. I also want to point out that actually Zoobler (for the most part) has been somewhat helpful through this whole process. It is the manufacturer that has been completely irresponsible. I thoroughly researched this stove and had no reason to believe that there would be problems like this. Napoleon had a good reputation at that time. I also did not receive and will not receive any tax credit. Lastly, I did not purchase the stove even a few hundred dollars cheaper than I could have locally. It was several hundred dollars, and that was having it shipped cross country.
I'm not here to have a debate about why I should have bought locally. I didn't. I honestly still don't regret my decision about that, and don't believe that would have changed anything. I know of other people from this forum that have also had their local dealer walk away from them for this same issue. It seems even more obvious to me now that it seems to be a thorn in the side of the dealer to perform any kind of warranty work because they are not making any money on it - very sad. All I want to do now is to either get my stove fixed with the proper parts that will last more than a month or two, replaced, or refunded so I can buy something that does work. Im the one who is the victim here, not my local dealer.
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
Sorry..I shouldnt have made that sarcastic comment. It's a sore subject with me. I wish you all the best. I am actually glad you created this thread and hope you find the help your seeking
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
kh395269 said:
If that was what you wanted, why ask for help in a class action suit?? I think the reaction of forum members has changed this from poor you to what did you expect. You have a bad stove part or parts, you offended the dealer and the manufacturer. If you don't think there is a smiley face on your client file. guess again. This forum in my opinion is to help other burners with stove issues and sharing opinions. Asking for help out of your hole isn't one of those things in my opinion, again.
Littlesmokey - I'm sorry to hear that you are a bitter, bitter dealer. I did come here for help and opinions knowing full well that I am not the only one having a problem. I also would like to think that I am helping others to stay away from Napoleon, so they don't get burned like I have been. I have not tried and am trying not to offend anyone. And if I offended Napoleon, it's ok with me because they have no one to blame but themselves. Their customer service practices don't rate very high in my book. You are the one that seems to have a personal problem with me, yet I have not done anything to you. Why don't you find someone else to harass? I was never looking for a pity party.
woodsman23
Minister of Fire
I would make a youtube video of all the issues you are having and post it. Then i would send a copy to napoleon then write letters to every person at the company over and over again. I would also try and call them every waking minute of the day. Call BBB etc..
kh395269 said:
kh395269, he already did. He has pissing matches going on in at least 2 other threads......
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
kh395269 said:
What can I say? I am not a dealer. I do rehab stoves part-time, but I pay the price just like you. I disagree with what you are trying to stir up, and blaming everything on others. At least be consistent. You want to resolve your problem, but I don't think you are going about it in the right way. I went to bat for a friend who really pissed off his stove dealer, and the manufacturer by trying to throw his weight around. Got the dealer so freaked she called her attorney. I stood up and talked with everyone. The stove was replaced, but we had to uninstall the beasty and reinstall the new one and eat a short warrantee. I have never been friendly with the dealer, but I know how to choke and swallow. No one was real happy, but everyone got something.
Threatening a company like Napolean from the other side of the country is not real good form. You may think I have an axe to grind and don't like you. You will never know how I feel unless you ask me directly. Just remember, it's a difference of opinion, I am not stealing the food from your mouth, or telling you not to pursue remedy. Your choice.
stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
dunno what to tell ya , i build stoves , but not the brand you have. personally i do not subscribe to the "defective stove" thing , though recurant failures of an individual component does point to a deeper issue, possibly in the nexus of the stove , ie the control board , having said that i cant support it from experience as i do not work with that brand. strikes me however that if the manufacturer had selected a bad product to use as a componenet there would be many more posts here klookng at the size of the forum and its level of hits on this issue.
i hope you are successful in getting your issue resolved.
i hope you are successful in getting your issue resolved.
Hi Mike,
When I purchased this stove, Napoleon was fairly new to the pellet market. I agree with you that there must be some other underying issue. It's crazy to think they would stick with the same fan manufacturer (Fasco) if there was continual problems with all their stoves There was a number of us last year with these fan issues and there is a few postings on YouTube of the noise. If Napoleon was able to work out the bugs and fix the issue, I think that's great, but then they should re-call the problem units they know they sold. I'd purchase another fan myself if the design was different and I KNEW it would fix the problem for sure, but after 3 bad ones, I'm just not willing to stick my neck out to risk another $200 on this. Thanks Everyone. I am going to go back to Zoobler again first. It shouldn't be expected that I should buy a replacement fan in April and it only be warranteed through July, when no one in their right mind uses their stove in the summer. It's been so warm here this Fall, we just started using it in October and only a few days here or there.
When I purchased this stove, Napoleon was fairly new to the pellet market. I agree with you that there must be some other underying issue. It's crazy to think they would stick with the same fan manufacturer (Fasco) if there was continual problems with all their stoves There was a number of us last year with these fan issues and there is a few postings on YouTube of the noise. If Napoleon was able to work out the bugs and fix the issue, I think that's great, but then they should re-call the problem units they know they sold. I'd purchase another fan myself if the design was different and I KNEW it would fix the problem for sure, but after 3 bad ones, I'm just not willing to stick my neck out to risk another $200 on this. Thanks Everyone. I am going to go back to Zoobler again first. It shouldn't be expected that I should buy a replacement fan in April and it only be warranteed through July, when no one in their right mind uses their stove in the summer. It's been so warm here this Fall, we just started using it in October and only a few days here or there.
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