My comparisons of: (Lopi Revere vs. Freedom) vs. (PE Super) vs. (BK Princess) ***Fan Noise & Door Wa

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53flyer

New Member
Oct 21, 2009
175
Eastern WA
First: Thanks for your time & any thoughts. I'd really appreciate feedback from people irt the following comparisons I've done among these stoves I'm considering. I've written numbered comments irt differences and could really use any real world thoughts on anything from the accuracy of my findings to the prices I've listed. All were compared with fans included.

Insert--Heating Capacity----Output-----size-----Burn Time---Log Size---Weight---Current Price---I'd probably offer
LOPI
Revere---1200-2000sqft---72,400BTU---2.2cuft------10hrs---------18in------380---------$2100------------$1850
Freedom-1200-2250sqft---73,300BTU---2.9cuft------12hrs-------21in(avg)--455---------$2382------------$2100
PE
Super-------2000sqft-------72,000BTU---2.1cuft----Not Listed------18in-------410------$1750(sale)-------$1750
BK
Princess--Not Listed------Many figures--2.85cuft----20hrs--------16in--------325-------$2595(ouch)-------$2200

Lopi Thoughts
1) Does it seem weird that adding >30% firebox size results in negligible heat capacity and BTU output gain for the Freedom?
2) The extra burn time is to be expected but I'd be surprised if "both" those times weren't 2-3hrs off real world results.

PE Thoughts
1) The smallest (2.1cuft) firebox have similar heating capacity and BTU output? For the least cost... Assuming Lopi-like burn times.
2) The 410lb is 90lb more than previous "Pacific" model. Not sure what accounts for the 30% weight increase...

BK Thoughts
1) Burn time would be impressive even if it turned out to be more like 14-16 hrs.
2) Lightest but 22% more expensive than the least expensive. No, there's not necessarily a direct weight/$$ relationship but less metal should mean something irt cost right?
-------------------------------------------------------------

General thoughts:
1) The 2 Lopi's were a tough compare for me. The smaller/cheaper Revere has very similar stats (and has a 10in cook top) so why pay more for the Freedom? Does anyone know about the bypass damper? It seems like this would give more fine-tuning control than other non-cat stoves.

2) The Super seemingly has a lot of "bang for buck" but it's hard to believe 2.1cuft (which looks really small to me) can heat the same space as stoves with 35-40% more firebox capacity.?.?. How will the firebox welds hold up??? Simple 1 handle operation but is that really an advantage? (see Lopi comment above)

3) The Princess has potentially very long burn times. Only 16in wood lengths?...Realy? Why? Have to spend $250-300 for replacement catalyst every 4-8yrs (so I've heard). A salesman said stoves are usually on sale for around 30% off in summer/early fall. Assuming that to be the case it would be around $1800-1900 at that time.
 
53flyer said:
Only 16in wood lengths?
Click to expand...

They are quoting NS loading. They say 18 for the King yet you can put a 2 footer in there EW. Personally, I like the shorter splits. It dries faster, is easier on your splitter and you can buy/sell wood should the need/opportunity arise.
 
Flyer, the bypass control is used to allow the smoke to "bypass" the firebrick baffle when you: reload, start a cold stove, or clean the chimney. Once you start a fire and hit a stove top temp of 300-400F, you close it and it remains closed. It's not used to "tune" the fire, really. But boy is it ever handy!
 
I have mainly looked at lopi inserts,,however there too there seems too be a minimal gain in BTU/sq. ft.ratings, despite firebox size. As mentioned, those figures are just for advertising, however they dont seem to follow the same pattern as other manufacturers propaganda. Perhaps its just the evolution from one model to the next as engineers worked on improvements not necessarily associated with burn time or BTU`s
 
BK
Princess--Not Listed------Many figures--2.85cuft----20hrs--------16in--------325-------$2600-------------$2200
I would have to see that burn time to even start believing it. Think 10 would be realistic. I bought my Summit and can get maybe 9, but I am still learning. If you can get near 20 hours of actual "burn" time I would have bought that instead. How are they figuring that? I have had coals after 14 hours but the insert was only warm to the touch.
 
Wacky, the BK is cat stove. Completely apples to oranges to compare it to your non-cat stove. It's like a diesel VW jetta get's 50 mpg and a Ford focus gas car only gets 30. Consider the technology. Members here easily get into the mid teens of burn time. It's that good.

The BK has the SF heated listed in their brochure. It wasn't real specific but as I recall it was "2000+ SF". That was the stove brochure and not the insert one if there is a difference.

30% off in summer? Really? Add that to the 30% rebate and wow.

One more thought. That mid size PE model has earned a reputation of one of (if not the) longest burning non-cats available. It does this by throttling secondary air at the same time as you adjust the primary air. Most stoves simply leave the secondary air supply at full throttle all the time. A larger non-cat stove doesn't equate to a longer burning non-cat stove, it simply means that it will be making more heat.
 
Having just put a BK Princess into service, and being delighted, here are my thoughts on that ...

53flyer said:
BK Thoughts
1) Burn time would be impressive even if it turned out to be more like 14-16 hrs.
Click to expand...

I've easily gotten 12 hours already. I define it as: the stove is full of hot coals, so all I have to do
is throw in some more wood and I have a raging fire momentarily, and the catalytic converter is still
active. I have not let it go longer, because I'm awake and want a bigger fire. It's not clear to me
which would happen first: all the fuel would be consumed, or the draft would get too wimpy to keep
the cat active.

This is good enough for me. I like it chilly when I'm sleeping anyhow. I have not gone to much pains
to get this. For example, I'm burning pretty low quality wood - saving the better stuff for when it really
gets cold - so these aren't really dense oak/hickory splits.

Also, I'm running a single-wall chimney connector. I imagine the improved draft of a double-wall
would keep the cat active longer.

3) The Princess has potentially very long burn times. Only 16in wood lengths?
Click to expand...

It's bee pointed out already: you can load it sideways and use much longer wood (18-20") ?

Have to spend $250-300 for replacement catalyst every 4-8yrs (so I've heard).
Click to expand...

This is the case with any catalytic stove. The element does not last forever. And its life depends
on how you treat it. Poison it (with treated wood, paper containing lead ink, etc) and you can ruin
it quickly. You can also extend life if you're willing to do the fairly elaborate cleaning procedure
(involving acetic acid) - maybe someone should start a business doing this for people, lots of
economy of scale, I imagine !
 
Highbeam said:
Wacky, the BK is cat stove. Completely apples to oranges to compare it to your non-cat stove. It's like a diesel VW jetta get's 50 mpg and a Ford focus gas car only gets 30. Consider the technology. Members here easily get into the mid teens of burn time. It's that good.

The BK has the SF heated listed in their brochure. It wasn't real specific but as I recall it was "2000+ SF". That was the stove brochure and not the insert one if there is a difference.

30% off in summer? Really? Add that to the 30% rebate and wow.

One more thought. That mid size PE model has earned a reputation of one of (if not the) longest burning non-cats available. It does this by throttling secondary air at the same time as you adjust the primary air. Most stoves simply leave the secondary air supply at full throttle all the time. A larger non-cat stove doesn't equate to a longer burning non-cat stove, it simply means that it will be making more heat.
Click to expand...

Oh, seems I was misled. My installer told me that the PE was just as good as a cat insert and would be better in the long run because cats need replaced every 3-5yrs depending on the dryness and type of wood. If the cat is not kept hot it will clog. The PE, I was told, will perform as well as a cat stove with out the extra cost and constant worry about being in the proper burn zone all the time. So I guess I should have researched further to understand the differences better.
 
In WV, with your really long shoulder season and short winter, a cat stove offers some pretty significant advantages in burn times, wood used, and reduced time spent fiddling with controls. A good cat stove makes dealing with very small, slow fires a breeze. You can get three mid sized hardwood logs to burn for 10 hours no problem (I've done it daily for the last week). This was never possible in any non-cat I ever owned. I could make a great 3 log fire in my Olympic, but in 5 hours it needed more wood. That non-cat needed a FULL load of wood to give a 10 hour burn, and filling that 3.1 cu ft firebox to get that long burn made me go through a heck of a lot more wood.

I also would say that a cat stove produces a more gentle heat. If I fully loaded my Olympic, the stove would heat up to 600 degrees every time. With my BK I can keep it from passing 450, thus keeping the room my stove is in at a more manageable temperature.
 
just loaded the princess with 3 good sized splits of doug fir and set thermo,,,,... walk away. come back 12hrs later house is still warm cat is still engaged and life is good
the only bad part is you dont get to mess around with the fire.... wait......... that is great!
One of my local dealers tryed to tell me the same story About cat stoves but he was selling non cats so you know where this is going
I should have bought this stove 10 yrs ago
 
Btw the princess is rated by bk to heat 1500+ and I think they said somthing like 58000 btus on high but could stuff it constantly and burn it a 80000 if you wanted to but that is not realistic
 
Chopslide said:
I should have bought this stove 10 yrs ago
Click to expand...

Couldn't of said it better myself. Year 5 htg with it for me.
 
Blaze King stoves are wonderful. When I die I want to come back as a Blaze King King. :coolsmirk:

I wonder what the wonder stove of next season will be. We have one every year here.
 
BrotherBart said:
Blaze King stoves are wonderful. When I die I want to come back as a Blaze King King. :coolsmirk:

I wonder what the wonder stove of next season will be. We have one every year here.
Click to expand...

Well BB do you think we are lying. :coolsmirk: When I came on here I was kicked around pretty good. I just left well enough alone. Sounds like they are talking the same talk I was but now in #s. Time to BK up there fella. :lol: If I had the $ Id send ya one just to satisfy myself so to speak. Cheers.
N of 60
 
I am still waiting for you to send me that Nap non-cat.

The thing cat stoves have going for them is that they don't have that freakin unrestricted air inlet that non-cats have to have to pass the EPA testing when shut all the way down. Do away with that and everybody's idea that they need to close down the primary all the way for a night burn and 50 pounds of wood burns as long as, well, fifty pounds of wood.

And with the non-cat the heat is distributed and transferred from the whole stove body. Not just from a hot spot in the top of the stove and migrated to the rest of the stove. And it goes on and on and on.

But everybody should just buy a stove they like and heat the joint. :lol:
 
BrotherBart said:
I am still waiting for you to send me that Nap non-cat.

The thing cat stoves have going for them is that they don't have that freakin unrestricted air inlet that non-cats have to have to pass the EPA testing when shut all the way down. Do away with that and everybody's idea that they need to close down the primary all the way for a night burn and 50 pounds of wood burns as long as, well, fifty pounds of wood.

And with the non-cat the heat is distributed and transferred from the whole stove body. Not just from a hot spot in the top of the stove and migrated to the rest of the stove. And it goes on and on and on.

But everybody should just buy a stove they like and heat the joint. :lol:
Click to expand...

Just learned something else!! I am still amazed at the amount of info you all have to offer. If I ever have this PE die I may try a cat, who knows, in 10 yrs they may have a stove that can burn 36 hrs. and then load itself at even less cost!! :lol:
 
SolarAndWood said:
They are quoting NS loading. They say 18 for the King yet you can put a 2 footer in there EW. Personally, I like the shorter splits. It dries faster, is easier on your splitter and you can buy/sell wood should the need/opportunity arise.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. Can someone with a Princess tell me the size they've actually fit in theirs EW?

Pagey said:
Flyer, the bypass control is used to allow the smoke to "bypass" the firebrick baffle when you: reload, start a cold stove, or clean the chimney. Once you start a fire and hit a stove top temp of 300-400F, you close it and it remains closed. It's not used to "tune" the fire, really. But boy is it ever handy!
Click to expand...

So you'd never have the bypass open 20-30% iot get a different heat output? That's sort of what a dealer hinted at. That does sound handy. I know you have to take that SS baffle out of the PE stoves to clean the chimney and I believe with the Princess you have to remove the cat.

Highbeam said:
That mid size PE model has earned a reputation of one of (if not the) longest burning non-cats available. It does this by throttling secondary air at the same time as you adjust the primary air. Most stoves simply leave the secondary air supply at full throttle all the time. A larger non-cat stove doesn't equate to a longer burning non-cat stove, it simply means that it will be making more heat.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the "large" size "Summit" stove that has what they call extended burn technology (EBT)? The mid sized "Super" doesn't have that. The Super only has the "ONE" lever in the front to control air intake which is why it seems less able to fine tuned when compared to the Lopi/BK stoves.

RustyShackleford said:
I've easily gotten 12 hours already.....You can also extend cat life if you're willing to do the fairly elaborate cleaning procedure (involving acetic acid) - maybe someone should start a business doing this for people, lots of economy of scale, I imagine !
Click to expand...

Thanks for the first hand experience. I thought the cat was cleaned with a vacuum? I've never heard of using acid. Do you know if that's ok irt the cat's warranty?

Patapsco Mike said:
I also would say that a cat stove produces a more gentle heat. If I fully loaded my Olympic, the stove would heat up to 600 degrees every time. With my BK I can keep it from passing 450, thus keeping the room my stove is in at a more manageable temperature.
Click to expand...

I understand the advantage of the long burn but do you ever feel like you might have trouble getting "extra" heat out of it since it's supposed to be run "low" and slow? Would the cat be damaged by trying to run hotter? I'd appreciate hearing from north of 60 (& your 5yrs experience) as well.

BrotherBart said:
The thing cat stoves have going for them is that they don't have that freakin unrestricted air inlet that non-cats have to have to pass the EPA testing when shut all the way down. Do away with that and everybody's idea that they need to close down the primary all the way for a night burn and 50 pounds of wood burns as long as, well, fifty pounds of wood.

And with the non-cat the heat is distributed and transferred from the whole stove body. Not just from a hot spot in the top of the stove and migrated to the rest of the stove. And it goes on and on and on.
Click to expand...

Can you please expand on this? I thought non-cat stoves had to be built that that way because they have to burn hotter to stay in the clean burn zone. I've read that the temp to get efficient secondary in a non-cat is around 1000* and that a cat achieves this as low as 500* which is why a cat can be shut down so much lower. Is that wrong?

I'm also unclear about the "hot spot". Is that because the cat is at the top? Once the cat's been engaged for an hr or so won't the heat in the stove even out just like in any other stove? Are you saying the cat's area may be around 500-600 but the rest of the stove's inside would be significantly different? In such a small space I'd expect the firebox to be fairly uniform.
 
north of 60 said:
BrotherBart said:
Blaze King stoves are wonderful. When I die I want to come back as a Blaze King King. :coolsmirk:

I wonder what the wonder stove of next season will be. We have one every year here.
Click to expand...

Well BB do you think we are lying. :coolsmirk: When I came on here I was kicked around pretty good. I just left well enough alone. Sounds like they are talking the same talk I was but now in #s. Time to BK up there fella. :lol: If I had the $ Id send ya one just to satisfy myself so to speak. Cheers.
N of 60
Click to expand...

Before the heating season is over he will give in. I can tell he's getting sick of that old Englander. Time to trade her in BB, it's ok we'll only rub it in a few times. Maybe you could hold a hearth.com get together and we could all help with the install and you could treat us all to a Naty?
 
If you are looking to price shop the Lopi, then the Lopi 1750i is the same as the Revere without the extra looks and typical Lopi features. I installed a Lopi Answer yesterday for my aunt and uncle and got a 10 hour burn time. Meaning I loaded it full at 11:30pm and at 9:30am I raked the coals, put two pieces of wood in and had a full fire in minutes. Lopi rates the Answer for an 8 hr burn time. Burn times are only as good as the wood you are burning.
 
53flyer said:
SolarAndWood said:
They are quoting NS loading. They say 18 for the King yet you can put a 2 footer in there EW. Personally, I like the shorter splits. It dries faster, is easier on your splitter and you can buy/sell wood should the need/opportunity arise.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. Can someone with a Princess tell me the size they've actually fit in theirs EW?
Click to expand...

The door opening is about 16-1/2" wide. So you have to stick one end of a longer piece
in first and then pivot the other end in. I'd say if the firebox is fairly empty (and they
make a big song&dance; of loading it only when it's fairly burned down), you can get
I'd say a 20" piece in no problem. For the last piece of two, more like 18". I would
want to cut my wood no longer than 18". Hope this helps.

If you want to load the most wood in the firebox, use shorter wood.
Click to expand...

(Editing my post to quote someone who posted later, but it's related ...)

This rings true from my experience loading the stove. I think I'm gonna
start cutting my firewood shorter.
 
You guys are discovering what I have known for a long time, When you tell people about how well a blaze king performs, they think you are lying. It is easy to understand when you consider the only experience they have is with conventional stoves.

Comparing numbers and weights to arrive at the best stove may not get you the best stove.

If you want to load the most wood in the firebox, use shorter wood.

Just because BK is now being talked about on this forum, and easterners are discovering it, does not mean it is a new or passing fad. People that rely on a wood heater for survival in the north west, canada, alaska have long known about B-K. Anyone that has lived with one will have none other if they can afford it. They buy them because there is no other heater that can give long uniform heat, particularly with low btu softwoods. Figures on heat output are very deceiving, many stoves can put out tremendous heat, but such heat spikes are miserable to live with. That is why they add mass in heavier plate or soapstone to even out the spikes.

If cost is a factor, the king still comes out ahead, if you think past the price tag, unless someone is bringing you 30% more wood than you asked, for free.
If decoration is really important, then look elsewhere. There are a lot of good stoves out there, but the truth is if you want a truly serious heater above all, don't kid yourselves with statistics. Remember what Mark Twain said about statistics, I will spare the family atmosphere with that quote.
 
I love my old blaze king, to most people its a piece of junk, but to me its a gerat stove.. sure its old and ugly.. but if i ever get enough cash i will go buy me the blaze king king cat to take its place! $2800 bucks and it will be all mine!!! i should start a collection jar.
 
This is the case with any catalytic stove. The element does not last forever. And its life depends
on how you treat it. Poison it (with treated wood, paper containing lead ink, etc) and you can ruin
it quickly. You can also extend life if you're willing to do the fairly elaborate cleaning procedure
(involving acetic acid) - maybe someone should start a business doing this for people, lots of
economy of scale, I imagine !
Click to expand...

The instructions I have seen (found at the back of the BK manual) have only suggest vinegar. Just adding this to encourage those that maybe have put off cleaning because they were afraid of this procedure using acetic acid. I would guess that acetic acid may be more effective, but I had not run across that recommendation, my I ask where those instructions/procedures are found?
 
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