Smoke city!! need help

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Cudos

Member
Aug 11, 2009
107
Central Alberta
Hi all, I've got a big problem. I recently had a PE SuperStep top installed by a certified WETT installer. My pipe goes straight up through the roof with no bends. However, when trying to start a fire I ended up with a house full of smoke and had a hell of a time time getting the stove to draw.

It was about 3 degrees celcius and windy outside. I started with some crumpled up newspaper and small dry kindling. The draft was wide open but as soon as the door was closed the fire would smolder and die out with a ton of smoke. Even with the door open the fire smoke badly into the room.

It took about 3 attempts with small kindling and nursing the fire to finally get it going to where I had a good burn going.
What the hell am I doing wrong?
 
So that's about 40F - still not that cold out. The draft will be stronger the colder it gets. Also it takes a while for the liner to warm up.
How large are your start up fires? Maybe getting things hoter faster with some really dry kindling will help in those conditions - people here often recommend pallet wood.
 
Standard first question.... How "seasoned" is your wood?

Try starting the stove with a top down fire. That should prime your chimney with a good draft to start.
Also try cracking a window in the room that the stove is in when starting.
 
Crack a window open until the stove has a good hot draft going.
I switched to top down fires this year and have not had smoke again. Although I have not had many fires either because it has been warm here.
 
Thank-You all,

My wood was nice and dry kindling. I hadn't even added any larger splits at that point. It seemed as if there was a n invisible wall of cold air blocking any heat and smoke from going up.

On the top down fire? if there is a wall of cold air in the chimney what difference will a top down fire make? is there something other than newspaper that I should use along with my kindling and should I leave the stove door open until I know for sure that I have a good draft going.

Opening the windows and doors didn't seem to help at the time.

Thanks again.
 
You need to warm the flue and get a draft going. Many people have this problem. I avoid this problem by setting up the fire to be lit off and then crumpling one piece of newspaper and light it right up by the flue. Once you see that light off and go - light off the fire. Cracking a window should help.
 
Next time you start a fire from scratch try completely loading it with crumpled news paper. Set it ablaze with a match. After it dies down build the fire normally. See if that helps.

Matt
 
Cudos said:
Hi all, I've got a big problem. I recently had a PE SuperStep top installed by a certified WETT installer. My pipe goes straight up through the roof with no bends. However, when trying to start a fire I ended up with a house full of smoke and had a hell of a time time getting the stove to draw.

It was about 3 degrees celcius and windy outside. I started with some crumpled up newspaper and small dry kindling. The draft was wide open but as soon as the door was closed the fire would smolder and die out with a ton of smoke. Even with the door open the fire smoke badly into the room.

It took about 3 attempts with small kindling and nursing the fire to finally get it going to where I had a good burn going.
What the hell am I doing wrong?

If you have tall trees or buildings nearby you may have a downdraft problem.. You should have at least a cap on the chimney and possibly a vacustack if that doesn't take care of the problem..

Ray

P.S. A taller chimney may also help..
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Next time you start a fire from scratch try completely loading it with crumpled news paper. Set it ablaze with a match. After it dies down build the fire normally. See if that helps.

Matt

Matt nailed it, if it truly is a draft problem. Take 5 or 6 sheets of news paper and lightly crumple them. Light them off. It will probably begin to smoke up the fire box, but then after a short time, you will SEE the draft start and then BINGO - clear firebox full of flaming news paper.

Now you have an established draft and warm flue. Let the paper die out and build your startup fire.

Also, the top down method has been reported to cure this as well as loss of hair and flat tires. ;-P
 
Great answers all Thank-You, I have no trees or buildings around the Cabin, just a nasty Yankee clipper wind. I'm going to try the crumpled newspaper idea first and then a top down fire after that.

Cheers
 
I still think cracking a window will help the most.
The thing with top down is you put all of the heat on top verses having the heat used to start the kindling first. The embers from the top fire drop down to ignite the progressively larger pieces as the flue warms. when you start a bottom up fire you have lots of smoke before fire, top down there is fire first. You can use a fire starter like super cedar or a piece of one on top of a top down fire. There is a thread with a link to a video of top down fires on this forum that is pretty good.
 
I used to go with the newspaper when my chimney was cold and I had a 'plug' of cold air in there. However I read on here about using a hair drier and tried it once and won't every go back to the newspapers... Using the hair drier is quick and no smoke at all - just point it up the flue and run it on hot for 30-60 seconds and the draft will be running great. Then I still advocate the top-down fire just for good smoke-free startup.

When I did the newspaper startup I would still get a firebox full of smoke that would escape into the room once in a while - and I really hate the smell of smoked paper!

Last suggestion - pick up a cheap hair drier at a garage sale or something... I don't recommend using your wife's favorite one. Or at least, don't get caught using it.
 
I picked up my own hair dryer to use on the stove at Wal-Mart....$10 IIRC. I call it the "Wal Blow".
 
Skier76 said:
I picked up my own hair dryer to use on the stove at Wal-Mart....$10 IIRC. I call it the "Wal Blow".

LOL on the Wal Blow.. Perhaps you could even call it Blow Mart? :)

Ray
 
I've got a bit of an "issue" with naming things from that store. Lately, I've been buying a lot of my outdoor weekend work attire there. Cargo shorts/pants are called "Wal-go's. I just picked up some carpenter pants...."Walpenter" pants. I have more, but I'll spare you the painful Wal-names. :lol:
 
Sorry for throwing you a red herring but here's my story:

FWIW, I have the same stove (well -- the fusion, so same guts). I had the same problem this fall. My issue was my house is negatively pressurized and the outside temps are too warm yet. I have a humidex I turned down and I bought an ASV-90 (my expensive hole in the wall). It fixed my problem though -- my house is not negatively pressurized anymore.

-- So, once again, try cracking the window --- if it fixes the issue you have a negatively pressurized house.
 
Do a search on here for Top-Down fire building. It should help immensely.
 
Digital Wilderness said:
I just got the Super 27. I found if you open the ash drawer it lets alot of extra air in when starting the fire.

??? The ash pan on the PE is not a sealed unit. And there is a trap door that seals it from the fire. If opening the ash pan makes a big difference, something is not right.

***

Cudos, it does sound like this may be a draft issue. Could you describe the flue on this stove in detail?

We leave the door ajar about 1/4" when starting the fire until it is going. Here's a video for starting the fire. It works well for many veterans and novices alike.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1
 
BeGreen said:
Digital Wilderness said:
I just got the Super 27. I found if you open the ash drawer it lets alot of extra air in when starting the fire.

??? The ash pan on the PE is not a sealed unit. And there is a trap door that seals it from the fire. If opening the ash pan makes a big difference, something is not right.

***

Cudos, it does sound like this may be a draft issue. Could you describe the flue on this stove in detail?

We leave the door ajar about 1/4" when starting the fire until it is going. Here's a video for starting the fire. It works well for many veterans and novices alike.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

Hello Be,
I too have used the top down method since I saw the video last year and it works well for me too.. Just proves that old dogs can be taught new tricks!

Ray
 
i am lucky in that we have a wood oil combo furnace, and i can run the oil for 2-3 min to pre heat the flue. if i try and start a fire without doing that and the temp us above freezing the same thing happens.
 
First things first.

1. What is the length of your stack from top of stove to cap?
2. What does the stack pass through, and how much is inside a warmed space versus outside a warmed space?
3. What type of pipe is it (i.e. single wall, double, triple, grandpa's old dryer pipe . . .)?
4. How high does the pipe stick out of the roof and where is it relative to the roof lines?
5. How many SF is your cabin, what is the height, and how tight is it?


These questions are preliminary, and critical.

If you have a short/cold stack, the answer to your question is going to be different than if you have a long/warm stack.

IMO, a properly installed wood stove and stack will draw well, on a day near freezing, without any issue and without prewarming, with the only exception being if you have a crappy stove or a tight house or both.


PE is a great stove, so that's probably not your issue.

Finally, top down fires are the only ones that make sense, if you understand the underlying physics.

Things don't "catch" fire. Things combust because their temperature rises to their combustion point.

If things "caught" fire, then you could light an oak log with a match. You can't. You must bring the log up to its combustion temp. You don't need flames to do this. You could make a log burn simply by placing it in a proper oven and raising the temp until the oak reached its combustion point, and then voom, flame on!!

So when you do a paper-on-the-bottom fire you are falsely hoping that the flames from the paper will make the kindling "catch." Piling all that crap on top of the paper has the net effect of reducing the ability of the paper to burn, thereby releasing heat, thereby heating up the kindling to combustion point, thereby releasing heat, thereby raising cord wood temp to combustion point.

4 or 5 splits on the bottom.
4 or 5 kindling splits on top of that, tightly together.
A handful or two of very small kindling - I use a small section of 2x4 - maybe 5 inches long, no knots. Use axe to break into 20 or so pieces.
Keep kindling in house for several weeks so it gets really dry.
Light small kindling with blow torch (get trigger start). Blow on small kindling to get fired up.

If you want to just light it and walk away, then use 3-5 bowtied newspapers on top of small kindling.

Paper/blowtorch heats small kindling to combustion point, which burns and forms hot coals that heat the middling kindling to combustion point, and repeat.

Works every time as long as you have seasoned wood and dry kindling.
 
I just installed a draw collar and it works GREAT to create draw! I had the same problem at our cabin for years, and this took care of it.
 
Skier76 said:
I've got a bit of an "issue" with naming things from that store. Lately, I've been buying a lot of my outdoor weekend work attire there. Cargo shorts/pants are called "Wal-go's. I just picked up some carpenter pants...."Walpenter" pants. I have more, but I'll spare you the painful Wal-names. :lol:

Would that make it Walcabulary.

Zap
 
Jotulover said:
I just installed a draw collar and it works GREAT to create draw! I had the same problem at our cabin for years, and this took care of it.

Do you have a pic of that set up? I looked into one of those a few months back. But luckily, smokeout hasn't been a huge problem for our stove.

Zap,
LOL! I love that term! Perfect! :lol:
 
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