Wood heat and resale value on a home.
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Buyers often prefer whatever is the norm for the area. If FA Propane is the norm, that's what I'd be considering. Same for zoned electric, FA electric, oil, whatever. Then consider wood as a supplemental heat source. How much you or the next owner supplement is a matter of personal choice.
Stephen in SoKY said:
Good point. In this immediate area, I would have to say electric or wood since I rarely, if ever, see oil trucks, and I don't see many propane tanks outside nor, do I see the trucks delivering much (besides my neighbor).
CO2Neutral
New Member
Cheapest way to heat your home is a newer style, inverter based, mini split ductless system properly sized (notwithstanding floor plans, etc). Wood heat makes a perfect primary or auxillary system to it as well so resale should increase once you REALLY show the cost savings. To give you an idea: the heat pump I am getting runs down to -4 and beyond, uses 840 watts to generate 18k BTU of heat (Daikin Quaternity).
Ductless heat pump with wood (pellet or round wood) is a design strategy in various European countries.
Ductless heat pump with wood (pellet or round wood) is a design strategy in various European countries.
myzamboni
Minister of Fire
mgh-pa said:
Try the fans on the returns to push the cold (denser) air to the basement which will help push the warmer air up the register.
C02Neutral said:
If you don't mind me asking, what's a system like that cost including install (~ of course)? I did a little research and found equipment prices for a 4 zone system were around $4500 and up.
Now that I've heard your timeline and details about your place, I think BeGreen and C02Neutral might be on to something with their mini split suggestions. While I have NG, wood, and pellet heating options, I recently bought two Fujitsu 12rls mini splits for our house (I'll install them next spring). These systems have a SEER of 25, so they are super efficient. Like yourself, I don't have central air, so I expect these units to significantly impact the air quality in our house next summer, w/o costing me a fortune to keep the house cool. Likewise, they shouldn't cost me much to heat the house during the shoulder seasons, when the heat pump is very effective (and when it's often a PITA to heat with wood). The down side is they drastically lose their efficiency when the temps get really cold, so having something like wood heating is a great compliment to a heat pump.
In the end, you might find a couple of mini splits and a wood stove to be an excellent solution. This combined with your central electric heating system should make the house more attractive to potential buyers, plus make it more livable for you while you're there.
BTW, the mini splits I bought do qualify for the 30% tax credit. Here's a link to the units I bought. I think Fujitsu makes a smaller and a couple larger models as well.
http://www.younits.com/fujitsu-halc...-seer-12000-btu-p-1320.html?utm_source=Google Base&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=comparison_shopping
In the end, you might find a couple of mini splits and a wood stove to be an excellent solution. This combined with your central electric heating system should make the house more attractive to potential buyers, plus make it more livable for you while you're there.
BTW, the mini splits I bought do qualify for the 30% tax credit. Here's a link to the units I bought. I think Fujitsu makes a smaller and a couple larger models as well.
http://www.younits.com/fujitsu-halc...-seer-12000-btu-p-1320.html?utm_source=Google Base&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=comparison_shopping
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
Anyone have any recommendations as a starting point as to what manufacturers I should be looking at with these systems?
Solar,
As you mentioned, AC was the biggie. Central AC was not much of an option and I'm not a big fan of the window warts we were using. The other primary motivator was shoulder season heating. Historically I've found the pellet stove to be ideal for the shoulder seasons, but after 9 or 10 years of burning pellets, I've had enough of the supply and pricing issues associated with pellets. With the high efficiency heat pumps, it should be cheaper and easier to heat during the shoulder seasons. The final nail in the coffin was I found the two Fujitsu units (with line sets) for $2k and at that price I could not pass the deal up... add in the tax credit and I paid only $1400 for both!
mgh,
I looked at the Sanyo, LG, Samsung, and Fujitsu systems. I decide on the Fujitsu units because they seem to have the highest rated efficiency and can be had at a reasonable cost.
As you mentioned, AC was the biggie. Central AC was not much of an option and I'm not a big fan of the window warts we were using. The other primary motivator was shoulder season heating. Historically I've found the pellet stove to be ideal for the shoulder seasons, but after 9 or 10 years of burning pellets, I've had enough of the supply and pricing issues associated with pellets. With the high efficiency heat pumps, it should be cheaper and easier to heat during the shoulder seasons. The final nail in the coffin was I found the two Fujitsu units (with line sets) for $2k and at that price I could not pass the deal up... add in the tax credit and I paid only $1400 for both!
mgh,
I looked at the Sanyo, LG, Samsung, and Fujitsu systems. I decide on the Fujitsu units because they seem to have the highest rated efficiency and can be had at a reasonable cost.
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
Does the indoor piece surface mount on the wall and then just run the line through the wall? Appears to be a super easy install.
Yes. About the only part that's not completely DIY is the lineset should be purged and I believe a vacuum is needed to do this. Other than that, the units come precharged and they are basically plug and play. I'm going to pour a pad for mine and I need to run 220v to the units, but that's not a big deal either.
Wet1 said:
Thanks. So if you need multiple zones, you have to purchase separate units? How much area do these effectively heat/cool?
Nevermind, I found the multiple zone systems. Still, what size would a one zone effectively heat/cool?
Also, in the multiple zone systems what do the three numbers represent?
For example, here's one unit:
Tri Zone 36RMLQ Wall Heat Pump (18+9+9) 15 SEER - 36,000 BTU (3 Ton)
What's the 18+9+9 designating?
My guess in this case 18+9+9 is in reference to the btu of each zone (which adds up to 36). I don't know if the super high efficiency mini splits are offered in multi zone units (I didn't look into them). Also, look to see what the min. SEER is to qualify for the 30% tax credit.
Wet1 said:
Wow, yeah I can't believe I didn't make that connection. Duh.
How large of an area are you planning to heat/cool with your system (sq.ft wise)?
Sorry, I didn't answer your question about sizing...
A one "ton" unit is 12,000 Btu per hour. For cooling you generally target about 20 btu per sq ft foot of living space. So a 3 ton unit would cover about 1800 sq ft. You can stretch that a little, but that's a good starting figure. Sizing is very important for efficient air conditioning. A bigger unit is not necessarily better. A unit that is too large will not cool an area uniformly. A small unit running for an extended period operates more efficiently and is more effective at dehumidifying than a large unit that cycles on and off too frequently. So going slightly smaller might not be a bad thing.
The heating btu is self explanatory.
I will be installing my units so each is covering about 900 sq ft.
A one "ton" unit is 12,000 Btu per hour. For cooling you generally target about 20 btu per sq ft foot of living space. So a 3 ton unit would cover about 1800 sq ft. You can stretch that a little, but that's a good starting figure. Sizing is very important for efficient air conditioning. A bigger unit is not necessarily better. A unit that is too large will not cool an area uniformly. A small unit running for an extended period operates more efficiently and is more effective at dehumidifying than a large unit that cycles on and off too frequently. So going slightly smaller might not be a bad thing.
The heating btu is self explanatory.
I will be installing my units so each is covering about 900 sq ft.
Wet1 said:
Oh ok, so you're going with separate SINGLE units placed throughout the home to keep it higher efficiency? Since there's no ductwork, and only one wall unit per system, if you have three bedrooms upstairs that need cooling/heating, do you just install on one wall, and leave the doors open to allow the heat to spread like a traditional space/ambient heater?
Sorry for all of the questions, I have NO experience with these, but they are a very interesting concept.
Each zone (or single unit) is basically a space heater/cooler, so yes, air flow and circulation needs to be a concern.
In my case, I wanted the highest efficiency models, which happened to be single units. I'm installing the first unit on my first floor, and the second unit on my second floor (my basement has a dehumidifier/stove and the third floor already has conditioned air).
In my case, I wanted the highest efficiency models, which happened to be single units. I'm installing the first unit on my first floor, and the second unit on my second floor (my basement has a dehumidifier/stove and the third floor already has conditioned air).
WoodMann
Minister of Fire
Just my .02 on this one. go with the propane setup. As pointed out earlier, most folks don't care to deal with wood, just gun the thermostat, and keeping the stove down there in the basement could be real appealing to a buyer as backup or his ideas of making it the main heat source. So propanes is the way to go here.......................
WoodMann said:
If I do propane, and to try and avoid major costs with duct work and installation, my only bet would be a big propane fireplace/heater in the lower room, with a line coming in from the outside. It wouldn't heat the whole house, but a large part of it. Like many on here have said, a centrally located forced air propane furnace might be too costly for the short term.
Would you suggest propane over the above mentioned ductless systems? If so, why?
I installed a Fujitsu 15000 RLQ last Dec. and have not burned any pellets since(Harman XXV). In almost one year, I have saved over $1000. For every $6.49 bag of pellets, about $1.00 goes up the chimney. The mini split heat pump is on average 200% to 400 % efficient with no heat loss up the chimney.On the coldest days here in Nova Scotia, instead of 2 bags of pellets, I used $3.00 more elect. per day.Besides,the air is always being filtered, no smoke, no cleaning. After nearly 26 years of burning wood and 15 years of burning pellets, the mini split heat pumps of today are the best investment.On a couple of days last year when the temp was -20 , I was still getting heat.
Wayne in Nova Scotia.
Wayne in Nova Scotia.
samandlillie said:
How large of an area are you heating/cooling?
Do you have a multi-zone system or single zone?
Thanks!
CO2Neutral
New Member
mgh-pa said:
I'm no expert (or even beginner for that matter) but to compare what you are looking at keep in mind that the biggest gain in these units is the inverter based motor (which basically means that it will chew up smaller amperage at low speeds vs a straight-on/off type of heat pump). It's similar to the idea that EPA stoves did for the old smoke dragons and as we know, there are good differences between EPA wood stoves but if you have a baffle/secondary/primary system you're ahead of the game. Likewise with the inverter on the new split heat pumps.
Also, a lot of research has been done into ductwork. These units avoid the losses with ductwork which can be 25-35% or thereabouts. The last point would be to get the highest HSPF you can find. I'm investigating the Daikin Quaternity series. They have great warranty, support, reliability and an EXTREMELY high HSPF of 10.5-11 depending on model.
I don't plan on throwing my kindling away just yet! I see ASHP as a perfect COMPLIMENT, albeit a nice one -- to the wonderful, enjoyable, and green world of wood heat.
I am heating 1500 sq. feet of house with a single unit. It sits above the Harman XXV. My unit has a 10 year warranty on compressor and service.THAT IS SOME WARRANTY.The seer is 20, the HSPF is 10 and the EER is12.5.. The house is as warm as with the pellet stove.The disadavantage is that the 50000BTU Harman will heat up the house faster so you have to maintain the temp. with the heat pump.Also,here in Nova Scotia, we have a damp climate(surrounded by water) similar to PEI and the outdoor unit goes thru the defrost cycle a few times every day(8min).
Wayne in Nova Scotia
Wayne in Nova Scotia
CO2Neutral
New Member
samandlillie said:
Impressive warranty indeed: What make and model is that? What is the heating capacity f that unit (typically 15000 would mean that is the cooling load).
Thanks
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