Is my Summit working right?

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T

TynMahn

New Member
Oct 25, 2009
9
SE Kansas
Hi,

I bought a PE Summit insert near the end of last season and have used it for about 3 months total and I don't think it is working correctly. I have read several reviews about how well it burns, how easy it is to start, etc, etc and it makes me think that something is wrong with mine.

There are several warnings in the literature that comes with the insert about "overfiring" the box. It is not possible to overfire the box because I can't seem to build a fire large enough to do so.

Basically, in order to get the insert to burn at all, I have to have the damper set to full on all the time. Even then, I have to leave the door open until the fire is good and going because if I shut it, it will die.

If I stoke up the fire, it might kill it unless the fire is going just right.

When I start the fire, it does not smoke into the house, when I open the door once the fire is going, it does not smoke into the house.

It seems like it is drawing just enough to keep the smoke out of the house, but not enough to actually burn a good fire. The best fire I've been able to get out of it is sort of a lazy steady burn; not the roaring fire you'd expect with the damper wide open and the fire good and stoked.

I grew up with a wood burning stove and have had lots of experience heating with this type of system. Also, I used the fireplace that the insert is in for 2 seasons before I put the insert in, and it drew just fine.

The insert is connected to a 22' stainless steel 6" liner that runs inside the old mason flue.

My main question is, is this the way this thing should work? I have to have the damper wide open all the time and then, unless I open the door slightly and constantly move the coals around, I end up with all kinds of unburnt fuel.

If I try to turn the damper down, forget about it, the thing hardly burns at all.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Is this defective?

Would a larger diameter liner create a better draw?

Thank you for your helps

David
 
David, The EPA stoves are really picky when it comes to dry wood. The older stoves ( I burned one 30 years ago) would burn anything. I had trouble with my stove at first and was convinced I had dry wood. I now have well seasoned dry and covered wood and what a difference it makes with everything including keeping the glass clean.
 
I also think the woods not dry. Try lots of small splits 2" to 3" and do not add to much wood at one time.
 
check your wood when you put it in if it sizzles= no good..... also check your cap could be birds nest in there or clogged if you have spark arrestor on it
 
How are you loading the wood in that stove?
 
Thanks for your replies.

The wood I am trying to burn is seasoned for one year, but was never covered. So it may be wet. I didn't figure that this would be an issue as it never was before.

I will go and buy some well seasoned, dry wood and give it a go.

As far as how I'm loading it. If I understand the question correctly, I load them wood stove style; that is, straight in. Not like a fireplace where you load them with the length parallel to the opening. This is the correct way to load isn't it; with the length perpindicular to the opening?
 
The Summit is a front to back or commonly called North/South burner but I used to cross mine sometimes to get her ripping at startup. Like others have said check your wood,cap, and pipe to make sure she is free and clean. You could buy a cheap moisture meter or just knock 2 pieces of your wood together...if you here a thud not a knock your wood is probably not dry enough.

The Summit simply rocks and good long burns are easy with good wood and good draft on low setting.
I am sure after to check everthing including the wood you will know what theproblem is
Good luck
 
well, I'm sorry to say, I tried wood that I know is well seasoned and dry (no hissing). After thirty minutes of wide open burn, I can still touch the stove because the fire is burning so low.

It simply is not getting enough oxygen.

I know that the liner/cap is not clogged as I spent all of yesterday pulling it and inspecting to ensure it wasn't ripped anywhere.

I have to say, I'm very disapointed in this purchase. I still believe that, given the number of good reviews given to this stove, something is wrong. Either with the way I'm using it, the way it is installed or the unit itself.

I've been burning wood for heat for over 20 years and I just can't seem to get this stove to work.

I'm actually kind of sad because it seems I wasted about 4,000 dollars at this point.
 
Well now is probably the time to call the dealer and tell him what's up. Although some dealers will charge you to come over and look if they didn't do the install
You might just have to break down and pay him to come and then have him start the fire and wait until the problems start. With you over 20 years of experience I am sure you will know a he'll of a lot more than most stove techs but this is their stove so they might have the eye
Good luck
 
Tin Man you should check to see if they removed the 4" knock out plug before they buttoned up your installation.Its mentioned in your manual.
Brian
 
The Tin Man said:
Hi,

I bought a PE Summit insert near the end of last season and have used it for about 3 months total and I don't think it is working correctly. I have read several reviews about how well it burns, how easy it is to start, etc, etc and it makes me think that something is wrong with mine.

There are several warnings in the literature that comes with the insert about "overfiring" the box. It is not possible to overfire the box because I can't seem to build a fire large enough to do so.

Basically, in order to get the insert to burn at all, I have to have the damper set to full on all the time. Even then, I have to leave the door open until the fire is good and going because if I shut it, it will die.

If I stoke up the fire, it might kill it unless the fire is going just right.

When I start the fire, it does not smoke into the house, when I open the door once the fire is going, it does not smoke into the house.

It seems like it is drawing just enough to keep the smoke out of the house, but not enough to actually burn a good fire. The best fire I've been able to get out of it is sort of a lazy steady burn; not the roaring fire you'd expect with the damper wide open and the fire good and stoked.

I grew up with a wood burning stove and have had lots of experience heating with this type of system. Also, I used the fireplace that the insert is in for 2 seasons before I put the insert in, and it drew just fine.

The insert is connected to a 22' stainless steel 6" liner that runs inside the old mason flue.

My main question is, is this the way this thing should work? I have to have the damper wide open all the time and then, unless I open the door slightly and constantly move the coals around, I end up with all kinds of unburnt fuel.

If I try to turn the damper down, forget about it, the thing hardly burns at all.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Is this defective?

Would a larger diameter liner create a better draw?

Thank you for your helps

David
Click to expand...

Is your Chimney Flue servicing another appliance?

Zap
 
The Tin Man said:
Hi,

I bought a PE Summit insert near the end of last season and have used it for about 3 months total and I don't think it is working correctly. I have read several reviews about how well it burns, how easy it is to start, etc, etc and it makes me think that something is wrong with mine.

There are several warnings in the literature that comes with the insert about "overfiring" the box. It is not possible to overfire the box because I can't seem to build a fire large enough to do so.

Basically, in order to get the insert to burn at all, I have to have the damper set to full on all the time. Even then, I have to leave the door open until the fire is good and going because if I shut it, it will die.

If I stoke up the fire, it might kill it unless the fire is going just right.

When I start the fire, it does not smoke into the house, when I open the door once the fire is going, it does not smoke into the house.

It seems like it is drawing just enough to keep the smoke out of the house, but not enough to actually burn a good fire. The best fire I've been able to get out of it is sort of a lazy steady burn; not the roaring fire you'd expect with the damper wide open and the fire good and stoked.

I grew up with a wood burning stove and have had lots of experience heating with this type of system. Also, I used the fireplace that the insert is in for 2 seasons before I put the insert in, and it drew just fine.

The insert is connected to a 22' stainless steel 6" liner that runs inside the old mason flue.

My main question is, is this the way this thing should work? I have to have the damper wide open all the time and then, unless I open the door slightly and constantly move the coals around, I end up with all kinds of unburnt fuel.

If I try to turn the damper down, forget about it, the thing hardly burns at all.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Is this defective?

Would a larger diameter liner create a better draw?

Thank you for your helps

David
Click to expand...

Is your liner running the full length of the chimney?

Zap
 
Yep,

I've considered calling the guy to come out and see if it is working right and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'll probably end up doing that. And yes, I did the install myself. So he'll probably charge me... ;)

No. It isn't sevicing anything else. Yes, the liner runs the length of the original fireplace flue.

I have a roaring fire now. I had to build a little fire house in the stove to make it burn well. 3 sticks going north south with 3 on top runing east west. This just doesn't seem to be the correct way to force the fire to burn well.
 
Are you sure you have the lever in the right position when trying to get the stove up to temp?
Try cracking a window open near the stove, and see if that helps any. That Summit should have not problem getting up to temp and putting out heat.
 
From your first post I believe there is enough information to diagnose that you have a draft issue.
Search this incredibly robust knowledge base for a similar scenario and resolution.
 
Hey folks, I just bought a Summit Classic this weekend as well and hooked it up last night. I am having the exact same issue. House was 10C when I started the fire and 16 C hours later. Doesn't seem to be getting air or something. Nothing in the manual about a 4" knockout. Fire went all night but just didn't put out honking heat like the 30 year old beast I replaced.
 
fowlerrudi said:
Hey folks, I just bought a Summit Classic this weekend as well and hooked it up last night. I am having the exact same issue. House was 10C when I started the fire and 16 C hours later. Doesn't seem to be getting air or something. Nothing in the manual about a 4" knockout. Fire went all night but just didn't put out honking heat like the 30 year old beast I replaced.
Click to expand...

Go here and read page 9

http://www.pacificenergy.net/PDF/manuals/SUMMIT-A 211105-20.pdf
 
Simple way to test with DRY wood. Go to Lowes, Home Depot or the hardware store, or if ya have some on hand, cut a 2x4 or 2x3 down to 14" or so pcs, put about 6 or 8 in the stove and burnem. If they flame up like hellfire, then the wood you been using previous to this is not dry enough. I have burnt less than desirable wood and still been able to get up to temp.
As far as I can tell, the main things that cause low temps & crappy burns, wet wood, lack of daft, sometimes negative pressure. Not that it is impossible, but I highly doubt it is the stove.
The Freestanding stoves do not have the casing with the 4" knock out like the inserts have.
 
Hi,

I did actually remove the 4" plug in the plenum when I installed the unit just as the instructions say. However, I really don't see how this would really make that big of an issue as the stove could easily draw air from around the plenum and through the grate on the opposite side of the blower.

Anyway. I do appreciate everyone's advise. What I have done and what seems to be "working" is a sort of "fireplace/stove hybrid" type load. I'll load the bottom n/s then the layer on it e/w, then if I want a bigger fire, I'll lay the next layer n/s again.

This allows the fire to breath well and permits it to burn faster better. I also will let the fire kindle for about 10-15 minutes with the door open before I shut the door and allow it to draw through the damper.

I still have to run it wide open or else I get unburnt charcoal in the morning, so I control the temp and time simply as I would in a fire place; with the amount of fuel.

I think I might try an insulated 8" flue insert next year as I am firmly convinced that this stove does NOT draw hard enough with a 6" insert running the length of the chimny.
 
Troubleshooting draft issues. All of the below should be performed on a cold high pressure day if possible, to maximize draft.

!!Read stove manual to make sure you know which way to move your primary air intake lever to fully open!!

1. With some sort of fire established with dry wood, chimney damper open, stove primary air open.
2. crack the stove door open, if fire takes off, the restriction to draft is most likely NOT "downstream" of your stove ie chimney or cap. If fire still smolders and does not exhibit any significant change, crack open a house window or door with stove door still cracked slightly open. If the fire takes off, then you can consider your house tight (wish mine was) and should consider an OAK.
-If after cracking the door, fire does not exhibit any significant changes. Chimney or cap should be strongly considered as your issue.

3. Check cap, remove and repeat the above to rule in/out the cap as the issue.

Consider all 90 degree elbows in chimney as restrictions, lateral transitions as well especially if they are outside. Consider replacing with 45's if feasible, or add sections to the top of your stack.

The affects of fully insulating a liner and block off plates are unknown to me, hopefully someone will chime in regarding this, but i would guess that insulation would improve draft.
 
fowlerrudi said:
Hey folks, I just bought a Summit Classic this weekend as well and hooked it up last night. I am having the exact same issue. House was 10C when I started the fire and 16 C hours later. Doesn't seem to be getting air or something. Nothing in the manual about a 4" knockout. Fire went all night but just didn't put out honking heat like the 30 year old beast I replaced.
Click to expand...

make sure the room air/ OAK knockout is removed... makes a big difference when it gets some air...
 
The Tin Man said:
Hi,

I did actually remove the 4" plug in the plenum when I installed the unit just as the instructions say. However, I really don't see how this would really make that big of an issue as the stove could easily draw air from around the plenum and through the grate on the opposite side of the blower.

Anyway. I do appreciate everyone's advise. What I have done and what seems to be "working" is a sort of "fireplace/stove hybrid" type load. I'll load the bottom n/s then the layer on it e/w, then if I want a bigger fire, I'll lay the next layer n/s again.

This allows the fire to breath well and permits it to burn faster better. I also will let the fire kindle for about 10-15 minutes with the door open before I shut the door and allow it to draw through the damper.

I still have to run it wide open or else I get unburnt charcoal in the morning, so I control the temp and time simply as I would in a fire place; with the amount of fuel.

I think I might try an insulated 8" flue insert next year as I am firmly convinced that this stove does NOT draw hard enough with a 6" insert running the length of the chimny.
Click to expand...

I believe putting a larger cross sectional area of liner is going to make draft worse, not better.
Make sure the holes in the inside front bottom of the stove under the air intake plate are not packed full with ash.
 
I think our issue is that we are just not used to modern wood burning with an EPA stove. Times have changed. I think we just have to get used to the way the new stoves work. No huge huffing and puffing and huge air vents in the front door of the stove. Its now quite a science. My second burn last night was better - cut the hardwood smaller, loaded it right full, and got a really huge coal base going on. I closed it down all the way last night hoping to see coals in the morning and it turns out that 8 hours later there was not only coals but wood to be burned (I closed it too much I believe). Anyway, I am totally occupied by this stove and learning how it works differently than "big mama" from the past. I think in the long run I will be happier once I learn it's ways. Had it up to 23 C last night which is a lot nice. Hope it can keep up when its -40 C/F!
 
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