Montpelier vermont castings insert

Very informative review, thank you!

I'm having mine installed on Thursday and I appreciate the tips.

Mini update...

Temperature went down to 36 last night with a windchill of 30, and my oil heater didn't kick on once. Woke up 8 hours later, and there were still glowing embers...built a fresh small fire, and it caught itself within 5min. Awesome.

Here's one...

The fan speed control is a dial with a dot on it. The table in the manual reads:

Air Circulation
Fan Speed:Control Position
High:Horizontal
Low:Turn Clockwise
Off:Turn counterclockwise

What I'm not sure of is that when I have the dial turned horizontal, the manual says it is on "high". However, as I turn it closer and closer to "Off", the fan obviously gets much louder and powerful indicating that it'll actually go higher than it does in the "horizontal" position.

Is the manual doing this on purpose and it's unsafe to run it at the higher speeds than when the dial is "horizontal", or is the documentation wrong, and the fan can safely and reliably be run at those speeds?

I am sure you are safe running the fan at any speed you like, including full speed thru off.

If there was a safety issue, they would have prevented you from selecting the setting.

Very nice looking install! We also have the Georgian surround. And yes, as canboy said, run the fan at whatever speed you wish.

On a side note, I start my fires fully loaded and top down. The snap stat for the blower is on the front bottom. It takes almost 1:15 min until the blower comes on. I hate feeling the heat at the insert but not being able to get it out until the blower comes on, loosing an hours worth of heat and burned up wood. It will come on sooner if the fire is started from the bottom, getting heat to where the snap stat is faster. To avoid this, I simply removed the 2 screws holding the blower assembly in, pulled it out some, reached in and pulled out the snap stat, removed it and the 6 inches of wire harness, plugged the two wires together, and reassembled. Now I just turn on the blower after 15 or 20 min and start to get heat. Yes, you could also install a auto/man or auto/man/off switch if you wanted.

Steve

Hello all!

I've been absorbing information like a sponge from all of you, and am hours away from ordering my Montpelier. A few questions I'm hoping you can help with...

1. Does anyone have a picture of a majolica brown Montpelier? The only one I can see is a very tiny and blurry picture from the brochure on their website.
2. Has anyone installed the outside air kit? I have a negative pressure issue in the house that I'm working to resolve, and suspect that getting outside air would be important but the installer seems skeptical. Fireplace is on an outside wall, so I'm assuming he can just drill out the back to install it.

We're looking at the Caprice surround, and while I like the classic black look better my wife is seeming fairly insistent on the brown. ;-)

Thanks in advance,
Pete

Thought I'd put in another update for anyone getting it installed soon or recently.

I typically start the unit around 5pm, get it fully going and put in my last load around midnight and go to bed. Usually keep the draft at about 3/4 open, as that's the best "smoke on the glass when I wake up" to "longer burn time" ratio I've found. Only seeing the furnace kick in around 730am for about 20min every morning, which brings upstairs warm enough to get ready for work. Colder days (has happened 2 or 3 times in the 2 weeks), I'll get it going again in the morning and keep a small fire going all day (1-2 logs at a time), which I find keeps the house warm enough when I'm working upstairs in my office with a few computers around me that I'm comfortable (also has the added benefit of not having to re-light from scratch). At 5 i then just load it up again.

Main thing I've been surprised at is the amount of wood I've gone through using the above methodology. In the 2 weeks I've been running as such, I've gone through between 1/4 and 1/3 of a cord of wood. Knowing it's only going to get colder and i'll run it all day long a bit more often later in the winter, I'm estimating I'm going to go through about 1 cord of wood every 5-6 weeks. This means if I want to run all winter through early to mid March, I'm going to have gone through about 3! cords of wood.

Where I live I don't have enough yard to hold 2 cords, let alone 3 (besides the fact every square inch of grass I have would then be covered in wood piles), so luckily the guy I get my wood from said he would charge me the 1 cord rate (like $50 less than 2 1/2's) and just deliver 1/2 cord today, and another 1/2 cord in about 3 weeks to keep me going. He guaranteed me he'd still have the same quality wood for me.

So...just fair warning to potential stove buyers...make sure you have plenty of room for wood (at LEAST a cord and even then only if you plan on doing full burns 2-3 nights a week all winter), or can setup a delivery plan of some sort, otherwise you won't be burning for long.

All in all...still love the unit. A bit of work to clean up here and there and move wood around, but when the thing is kicking it puts off MAJOR heat and best off, doesn't look like some afterthought that was just tossed in your fireplace like I always thought the majority of the Hamptons and Jotols looked like IMHO.

chuckda4th said:

Thought I'd put in another update for anyone getting it installed soon or recently.

I typically start the unit around 5pm, get it fully going and put in my last load around midnight and go to bed. Usually keep the draft at about 3/4 open, as that's the best "smoke on the glass when I wake up" to "longer burn time" ratio I've found. Only seeing the furnace kick in around 730am for about 20min every morning, which brings upstairs warm enough to get ready for work. Colder days (has happened 2 or 3 times in the 2 weeks), I'll get it going again in the morning and keep a small fire going all day (1-2 logs at a time), which I find keeps the house warm enough when I'm working upstairs in my office with a few computers around me that I'm comfortable (also has the added benefit of not having to re-light from scratch). At 5 i then just load it up again.

Main thing I've been surprised at is the amount of wood I've gone through using the above methodology. In the 2 weeks I've been running as such, I've gone through between 1/4 and 1/3 of a cord of wood. Knowing it's only going to get colder and i'll run it all day long a bit more often later in the winter, I'm estimating I'm going to go through about 1 cord of wood every 5-6 weeks. This means if I want to run all winter through early to mid March, I'm going to have gone through about 3! cords of wood.

Where I live I don't have enough yard to hold 2 cords, let alone 3 (besides the fact every square inch of grass I have would then be covered in wood piles), so luckily the guy I get my wood from said he would charge me the 1 cord rate (like $50 less than 2 1/2's) and just deliver 1/2 cord today, and another 1/2 cord in about 3 weeks to keep me going. He guaranteed me he'd still have the same quality wood for me.

So...just fair warning to potential stove buyers...make sure you have plenty of room for wood (at LEAST a cord and even then only if you plan on doing full burns 2-3 nights a week all winter), or can setup a delivery plan of some sort, otherwise you won't be burning for long.

All in all...still love the unit. A bit of work to clean up here and there and move wood around, but when the thing is kicking it puts off MAJOR heat and best off, doesn't look like some afterthought that was just tossed in your fireplace like I always thought the majority of the Hamptons and Jotols looked like IMHO.

Click to expand...

I am a newbie with the Montpelier also. Ours was installed about a month ago. I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine? We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends. How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it? We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently. Thanks for your help.

I am a newbie with the Montpelier also. Ours was installed about a month ago. I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine? We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends. How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it? We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently. Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly. It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often. Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.

I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning. It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning. That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with. The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am. I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.

I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this. I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips. Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).

chuckda4th said:

I am a newbie with the Montpelier also. Ours was installed about a month ago. I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine? We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends. How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it? We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently. Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly. It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often. Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.

I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning. It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning. That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with. The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am. I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.

I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this. I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips. Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).

Click to expand...

Wow, i am amazed I have been cleaning all the ash out after each burn. Are you saying you leave a 2" bed of ash inside the firebox after you clean out the rest? Do you still have a fire going in the morning after a all-night burn or just some hot coals? And does your glass get dirty during the day when you are burning a log or two at a time?

nwohguy said:

chuckda4th said:

I am a newbie with the Montpelier also. Ours was installed about a month ago. I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine? We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends. How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it? We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently. Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly. It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often. Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.

I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning. It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning. That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with. The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am. I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.

I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this. I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips. Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).

Click to expand...

Wow, i am amazed I have been cleaning all the ash out after each burn. Are you saying you leave a 2" bed of ash inside the firebox after you clean out the rest? Do you still have a fire going in the morning after a all-night burn or just some hot coals? And does your glass get dirty during the day when you are burning a log or two at a time?

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That's correct - I leave a ~2" bed of ash after each cleaning. From what I've seen, those "chunkier" ashes on the bottom still have burning to do...especially in the secondary combustion. Lets say I clean out the fireplace completely, and burn over night. I'd generate something like 20 in^3 of what I'd call "chunky ash". I leave that ash in there and burn again the exact same size fire the following night. My experience has shown that the morning after the second night long burn, I'd only have something like 27 in^3 of ash (numbers are estimates, but I'd say the proportions are correct), this time with like 7 in^3 of it being VERY fine and obviously well burnt ash, and the other 20 in^3 being "chunky". So, what I'm seeing is that the "chunky ash" actually has some more burning to be done. This makes sense knowing that a secondary burn re-burns the ash from a fire at an extremely high temperature, so if there's "chunky ash" on the bottom, it obviously still has stored kinetic energy, so why let it go to waste? The rule of thumb I've gathered so far from the manual and the forums is simply don't let the ash cover up the 3 air slots that reside under the front plate under the andiron. If it's getting close, i'll simply rake the ash towards the back of the unit, and burn away. I've even let those holes get covered a decent amount, and the fire still received enough air, although I have a hunch my glass may get a bit dirtier than normal. Either way, those slots are a good 2.5-3" above the base of the unit, so leaving a nice bed of ash in there shouldn't be an issue.

After an all-night burn I do not have a fire still, but almost always still have embers glowing enough to be visible through the door. I usually rake them around a bit and find that there are plenty of other glowing ones in that "chunky ash". I spread them out, throw a small split in, close the door, and in about 30min I'll usually come back to that split all but fully ablaze. With that going, it's easy to start another big fire.

The times I've only done a log or two at a time, I'd estimate that it wasn't as clean as after a big fire, but certainly not bad. Later in the day I load it up, and again, burning a big hot fire is the easiest way to clean a mildly smoky glass. Every now and then I still have to use the damp newspaper dipped in ash method, but not too often, and that's really only when I want to be anal about it. By the next time a big fire is kicking in there, the glass is more than clear enough to see 90% of it without any fogging.

I usually have enough glowing red coals to get kindling going, so when I wake up or get home from work I open the air and the door and push the coals around, and things start glowing red. I also find that the pushing coals around helps any ash to settle to the bottom, so after a couple days I have a layer of black chunks that still have BTU's to give, and under that a pretty uniform layer of fine gray ash. So when I clean out, I go left to right, and push the chunks to the right, and scoop the dead gray ash out of the bottom. Then I push the coals back where I just picked up the ash, and continue until I get the dead gray ash, and I'm left with about 2-3" of leftover gray ash mixed with black chunks and coals. This keeps enough space in the firebox to fit wood, and keeps the air holes clean, while still keeping that insulating layer of ash.

I too never expect to see flames after about 4, but with a full load my stove will stay at least 300 at the door for around 5.5-6 hours, and I'll have coals good to go for a new fire for quite a long time

Anyone do the dollar bill test on their doors?


I've been burning for a week now and have certain spots on the door that always accumulate fairly thick fogging. They are especially concentrated on the hinge side of the glass door. I did the dollar bill test and confirmed by lighting a match while burning next to the seal that there are air leaks where the glass is fogging. I tried tightening the door latch and even adjusted the hinges but I still cannot get a tight seal on the right side and thus the glass never burns off that buildup when I have a good fire going.

I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.

Going to call the dealer tomorrow about the issue but I wanted to see if you guys have had similar experiences.

Thanks

av8roc said:

I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.

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Yeah that sounds like you have an air leak; I haven't done the dollar bill test on mine but during the day, for instance, I load up the stove and usually have lots of secondary flames and a little bit of flame coming off the wood, sort of feeding into the secondaries.
I get home at 5:30 and see one or two glowing coals, open the air and after two minutes there's a good number of hot coals, and I throw some kindling on and in a few minutes it's flamed up and ready to go...

I think the fogging on the right side of the door glass may be a "normal" occurance for the monpelier. I know if my wood is not perfect it gets dirty. Also the heat output goes down. But I have to work with what I have this year.
I think the better the wood the less it will use. The stuff that isn't quite seasoned needs more air and gets consumed faster. I too have just coals after 5 or six hours. Actually after running all night the fan is just cutting off about 7am.
I have the mead surround and like the look. It fits in with our 1913 house. There are pics some where on the site.

av8roc said:

Anyone do the dollar bill test on their doors?


I've been burning for a week now and have certain spots on the door that always accumulate fairly thick fogging. They are especially concentrated on the hinge side of the glass door. I did the dollar bill test and confirmed by lighting a match while burning next to the seal that there are air leaks where the glass is fogging. I tried tightening the door latch and even adjusted the hinges but I still cannot get a tight seal on the right side and thus the glass never burns off that buildup when I have a good fire going.

I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.

Going to call the dealer tomorrow about the issue but I wanted to see if you guys have had similar experiences.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Try burning hotter with the damper open further. I found that at least helped reduce the "thick fogging" to "mild fogging" and may possibly lead to embers hotter for longer. I'm not sure how much air affects them as opposed to open flame, where it is obviously a factor. I also found myself just lighting fires regardless of the amount of fogging, after which about an hour in with it burning hot most of the fogging disappeared.

I'm wondering if this thing is just so efficient that having an open flame for 6 hours at 350deg may actually leave a lower temperature at hour 7 then burning 5 hours of open flame at 425deg. I don't have a thermometer to test, let alone one that would store hourly readings, but it's certainly possible.

Either way, I'd just say burning hotter with the damper open more is certainly worth a shot. That's what I now do, and I've found that to be much better all-around.

Couple of questions for you guys,
Where are you putting your thermometers on you stoves? What are you seeing for temps?
What temp is your fan kicking on at?


With good dry wood (1-3 years seasoned) I am getting an excellent fire going, with the temp on the door reading 300-400 the fan will kick on and run for a while, then kick off. Is there a problem with the temp pickups or a fan issue with these? It moves a ton of air, and only makes a little bit of noise *I had a rattle when first installed, but fixed it* It really puts the heat out there but only with the fan on, and its getting cold and WINDY!

Wildman_fab said:

Couple of questions for you guys,
Where are you putting your thermometers on you stoves? What are you seeing for temps?
What temp is your fan kicking on at?


With good dry wood (1-3 years seasoned) I am getting an excellent fire going, with the temp on the door reading 300-400 the fan will kick on and run for a while, then kick off. Is there a problem with the temp pickups or a fan issue with these? It moves a ton of air, and only makes a little bit of noise *I had a rattle when first installed, but fixed it* It really puts the heat out there but only with the fan on, and its getting cold and WINDY!

Click to expand...

I put the thermometer at the top of the arch of the door, and I see similar temperatures to you, 400 is about as high as I've ever gotten it, and I average 325-350 for the most part over a burn...I would say the fan usually kicks on when the temp is around 200, but to be honest I've never really watched; it's usually after about 20 minutes that it kicks on and once I get the stove up to 300+ I turn the fan up...

My fan is pretty loud, and it really doesn't seem to push a ton of air, so I don't know if that's normal or what, it'd be good see someone elses Monteplier running to see if my fan is weak or what...

Mine pushes a fair amount of air, when it stays on.... Its running at 350-375 right now and it only stays on for a few minutes at best, then shuts off for a few minutes.
My other question, was about the fan assembly. Is it supposed to be anchored down somehow? Or does it just kinda float around above the piece of sheet metal on the bottom and the underside of the body of the stove? I cleaned my fan screens off and noticed that I can move it and change how it 'rattles' :lol: I was also concerned how it hooked up to the 'duct work' behind the stove, if it moves too much in my mind it might not be attached after a while and then it wouldn't move air at all!

I am now on my second year of heating with the Montpelier. The first year was a little frustrating until I learned how to operate it properly. I am now a very big fan of the Montpelier and find it extremely difficult to drag myself away from watching the fire and enjoying the heat. Following are some general comments and some thoughts about problems recently raised.

Fan Noise: The fan is attached to a fairly flimsy housing. The "ductwork" is light galvanized metal. The exhaust from the fan is simply a flush mount against the "ductwork" opening. With this setup, there can be a lot of potential rattles: fan against ductwork; ductwork against frame; ductwork against hearth; wires inside fan housing against the housing etc. It is all quite easy to take apart, repack the wires so they don't rattle; wedge some inflammable gasket between the fan and the gavlanized metal; wedge some inflammable gasket between the galvanized metal and your hearth....etc. There is a lot of trial and error here. Sometimes all you need to do is give the fan a little nudge in a corner somewhere and it quiets down. My fan now runs very quietly and I don't play with it anymore.

Fan Turning off and on: Once my stove gets up to operating temp about 30 mins. in, the fan turns on and stays on until the fire is long out. Then we get some cycling off and on but I am usually in bed at that point. If it is cycling mid fire, I think your thermo switch may be loose or faulty. Take the fan out and you will see how it is connected to the thermo switch. You can unplug from the thermo switch, connect the wires to themselves and then the fan turns on and off whenever you want. If you want to replace switch, it looks pretty easy to me.

Smoke on the front right of the door: Sounds like everyone has basically the same problem here. If you get staining on the door, it comes first on the right side. I have tried the dollar test and my gasket is very tight, so that is not the problem at least in my case. The glass is so big that I think it would be very hard to have the glass stay permanently clean. That being said, I now light very large fires, let them burn down to coals and then light another very large fire. If the fire brick remains white then the glass stays pretty clean. If the firebrick goes dark, I either had too small a fire, used lousy wood or didn't supply enough air and the glass starts to get dirty.

Building the fire: Don't lie logs east-west directly in front of the 3 air supply holes. This makes for a really starved fire. Try putting bottom logs north-south not blocking the holes and if they are too long raise one end onto the ledge under the andirons;

Low Draft and Backdrafting: My chimney is only about 13.5 feet high from the hearth. I am also on a hill, close to water and lots of trees. Downdrafts and low draw have been a problem. Extending my chimney by another 3-4 feet would eliminate most of my problems but it is brick and will be a big job for next summer. In the interim, I now have downdraft "preventor" chimney cap. This has helped substantially. I recognize that my chimney is less than spec but I think these EPA II units draw so little air that they are much more sensitive to downdrafts, short chimneys etc.

Yea I am thinking that I have a faulty temp sensor, its running at 400 deg now and still switching on and off. I will be taking it apart after it cools down and taking a look. I might just bypass it for now and run a direct line to a switch as we only run it on high.

Also, you may want to take a look at the temp sensor and make sure it is mounted correctly and making good contact. As stated in my last post, I removed it and the 6 inch wire harness and plugged the wires together.

Steve

Wildman_fab said:

Yea I am thinking that I have a faulty temp sensor, its running at 400 deg now and still switching on and off. I will be taking it apart after it cools down and taking a look. I might just bypass it for now and run a direct line to a switch as we only run it on high.

Click to expand...

Something is definitely wrong there. Mine kicks on after about 30-45 minutes and stays on until almost all coals are gone and its hardly blowing warm air. It will cycle on and off for about an hour at that point.

Yea I took the day and did maintenance on the stove, cleaned it, cleaned the glass, tightened the door latch. Took the blower out and it turns out most of the screws were falling off anyhow. I cleaned the fan, and remounted it. I removed the temp switch and plugged the wired together, works mint! I pulled the temp switch to replace it if I ever wanted to. Got it fired up and its put out heat better today than it has in the 3 months we have owned it!

We just bought a new house and are considering either the VC Montpelier insert or the Jotul Rockland insert. Our new living room has cathedral ceilings and large windows, so we're hoping to generate some good heat from an insert. We had a VC Encore in the house that we just sold and we loved it. We do not, however, have the clearance for a traditional woodstove in the new house. I am concerned about the Montpelier hinges after reading everyone's postings. Does anyone have any advice about the Montpelier vs. the Jotul Rockland? I've read that the Rockland smokes when a fire is started. We're trying to make this decision asap, as it would take several weeks to have a Montpelier delivered. Thank you!!