Harman Warranty Sucks - UPDATE - Now I am MAD!

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Lousyweather said:
rap69ri said:
Bigjim13 said:
Sawduster said:
I own a Harmon, but after reading all of the negative posts regarding this company over the past year, I'll be damned if I will ever buy another one! It is also infuriating that you can buy no parts for their stoves except through their dealer network - complete crap! Their warrantee which is a big part of their appeal is also apparently next to worthless.
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yeah, I bought a p61A last season and after reading everything here I'm a little nervous. One of the main selling points was the warranty. I had a slight issue with my room sensing probe last year and it took an act of congress to get the dealer out here to look at my stove- and I have AGREED to pay the mileage to get to my house since its about a 40 min drive from the shop. I just wanted my stove up and running again!
Click to expand...

Looks like we all need to become pellet stove experts so we can fix our own stoves. Would the dealer give us the parts to replace ourselves if it's still under warranty?
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we have, in fact, done that. Ive several customers who work on their own units, or just dont want their dealer to work on it , for some reason or another :) .......we just check to ensure the unit is still under warrantee, get the info from the customer, and the bad part, and put it through as a "parts only" warrantee (we dont get labor, of course, we didnt do the work)
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I wish I was more technically savvy, I'm just not in general a very handy person. I guess all those AP classes I took in HS that my guidance counselor recommended really came in handy, LOL. Oh well. I will say though, that I have gotten pretty good at figuring things out with my stove since we bought it. As long as nothing major, knock on wood, happens I should be ok.
 
It seems like Harman is providing enough money to fix the stove. I can't fault them at all.

The problem is more one of the lack of dealers and dealer training for a relatively new technology (pellet stoves).
The same thing is just as likely, or even more likely, to have happened with other brands...

From the very start, we have suggested that people buy their pellet stoves from a local dealer who can..and will fix them. Of course, if a dealer goes belly up all bets are off.

Or, if you are very handy, get a good price on a stove....or a used stove....with the mindset that you are going to use the money you saved to maintain the stove.
 
do a little homework on the dealer before the purchase!!!....I went to 3 different dealers, went to each one a few times and also called them a few times...I installed myself and whenever i need to call them i don't feel rushed off the phone. I end it with thanks so much for your help, and i always get "thats what we're here for". I called monday with an issue, the guy took my info, look me up in his system and said no problem, we'll be there thurs. AM......The 2 dealers i didn't go with were like car salesmen (no offense to anyone here who is), but to me pressured sales usually tells me that they don't care about you at all..just your money!
 
Maybe I missed something here, guess I will re-read the thread, but I thought the OP said Harmon was kicking in $450, and the "dealer" wanted $1140 from the owner. That's almost $1600 for something that should be covered under warrantee. That just doesn't add up for me. Granted Harman may not be at fault here, and are trying to resolve the issues, but **** is ****. That "dealer" should be publically flogged. The "dealer" is in quotes on purpose, no one who pulls this should be any stove manufacturer's dealer.
 
Sounds like to me that the dealer is shafting John Q Homeowner because they didn't sell the stove. From what I understand Harman pays their dealers $55 labor regardless of the problem for a typical warranty. Obviously this isn't a typical warranty, sounds like they are trying to compinsate the dealer because of the amount of work that needs to be done. $450 is a nice chunk of change for a few hours of work.
 
jtakeman said:
Lousyweather said:
rap69ri said:
Bigjim13 said:
Sawduster said:
I own a Harmon, but after reading all of the negative posts regarding this company over the past year, I'll be damned if I will ever buy another one! It is also infuriating that you can buy no parts for their stoves except through their dealer network - complete crap! Their warrantee which is a big part of their appeal is also apparently next to worthless.
Click to expand...

yeah, I bought a p61A last season and after reading everything here I'm a little nervous. One of the main selling points was the warranty. I had a slight issue with my room sensing probe last year and it took an act of congress to get the dealer out here to look at my stove- and I have AGREED to pay the mileage to get to my house since its about a 40 min drive from the shop. I just wanted my stove up and running again!
Click to expand...

Looks like we all need to become pellet stove experts so we can fix our own stoves. Would the dealer give us the parts to replace ourselves if it's still under warranty?
Click to expand...

we have, in fact, done that. Ive several customers who work on their own units, or just dont want their dealer to work on it , for some reason or another :) .......we just check to ensure the unit is still under warrantee, get the info from the customer, and the bad part, and put it through as a "parts only" warrantee (we dont get labor, of course, we didnt do the work)
Click to expand...

lousyweather, Thats very sporting of you. I hope this may make a trend. Heck I would even offer to pay for the time it takes to do the look up and warranty paper work. What other brands do you carry. May need to pay you a visit some day. May I PM for details?

3 cheers for you and very nice of you to do this.
jay
Click to expand...

you can always PM me......we exclusively sell Harman
 
It was $1400 hundred and some change at first then the service guy knocked it down to $1140 after I informed him that he said that his hourly rate was $120 but he would be giving me the shop rate. He has already repaired the stove, I asked before he repaired the stove what it was going to cost he said he would right it up and get back to me. I waited a few days and called him back after not hearing from him, he said the stove was done and told me what it was going to cost. Did I miss something? I asked how much it was going to cost and he said he was going to get back to me. Harman is giving $450 so the total cost is $690 still way to much. He wants to charge $480 for pickup and delivery this does not include install. He said that he is charging me 2 hours each way at $120 hour :gulp: he never said that when his guys picked it up, it was on the truck most of the day the guy who picked it up said he was on his way to another call in the area and he was taking it back when he had finished his calls. I am going to rent a uhaul to go pick up myself should save me around $200. I just need him to drop his rate like he said he was going to do. I have a call into Delaware Consumer Protection and they will be getting back to me tomorrow. I informed them that I ask for what it was going to cost and they repaired it then told me what I owed. Not sure if the news would take on this story but I know that several Harman customers are upset that they were sold a stove by the stove shop that no longer sells them and been having similar issues just not as drastic as my repair.

The service shop is 16.4 miles from my house and if I was informed of the service rates they would have not been allowed to take the stove. The dealer contacted this service company and no one would give me any information on service fees, the dealer told me that they use this guy all the time and people were satified with him. I talked to another person at the dealer yesterday and the guy said that they use several contractors and this guy gets 1 out of 10 jobs. I am not faulting the dealer but they should know the rates of the people they use, they made it look like that they had an agreement with this guy at discounted rates which I found out today they just have a list and call one to service.

I could have received the parts and did myself but I would have to give them the old parts before they would give me the new parts and after what other Harman techs said about the repair I decides to let them repair it. The service shop did not have to give the old part back before they received the new parts.
 
That flat stinks. I would call the local law enforcement agency, ask to speak to a detective and lay your case out. Ask if they would accompany you to pick up your property from the shop, uniformed in marked car preferred. When you arrive at the shop explain you are picking up your stove and the shop can deal with the manufacturer on the charges. Have them sign a release of property to you and don't think twice. Take a friend to help load, because the office can't help and the shop won't. If you are told by the police that you must pay, use your American Express card, and write across the receipt, "Unauthorized repair" When you get home and before you offer your friend a hot cup of coffee, call AmX and stop payment. Then take a deep breathe, call the shop back and tell them you are referring the matter to the proper authorities. Keep good receipts for your costs (truck, lunch, helper payment, lunch, trips to the court house, coffee, lunch, etc). Make sure you documment your time for travelling 16 miles and unloading the stove, (two hours?????) and get everyones names. If it gets to court, or arbitration, the clearer you are on the events and the better the detail you have the better the outcome. This could cost the shop his license to do business even in Delaware.
 
I need to get a job picking up stoves $480.00 (16.4 miles x2 =33 miles) THATS $14.55 A MILE!!!!!! thats what i call a fuel surcharge. sign me up.
 
not saying the outrageous prices here are even close to fair, but I am curious about what you folks think a fair charge is to un-install, pick up, deliver, and re-install the XXV?
 
A case of beer for the removal and a case of beer for the install should take care of all charges. LOL I would think somewhere between $200 to $300 would be fair. There are a lot of variables such as the distance, any steps involved. 2 employees involved, access in the home, hence the spread. What do you feel would be a fair charge to do a 30 mile round trip, 6 steps with otherwise easy access, with 2 employees needed? As I have posted in this forum before the closest dealer in my area think he should be paid a kings ransome for his work and parts. My dealer here has a cost structure posted on his wall, in the showroom, of a insert install. It starts at $ 1,600 and goes up from there. This was a year ago.

Bkins
 
You may get prices all over the place. I charge my hourly labor rate plus up to $25 fuel charge. That started when gas was $4./gal. Generally it's a simple pick up and drop off for me. I don't do "install" work, but time in home is minimal. All charges are clearly stated up front. I am a one man shop, so you get the boss. If they are a regular customer, the charge is only on the pick up side. A little discount. For something even 20 miles away the charge would about $40.

I do restoration work, mostly furrniture or architectural mill work. A set of eight chairs may take 10 minutes to load. My shop rate has dropped to keep as much work as possible, but I still have to pay the overhead. Charging $120/hr/man is unconscionable. That tech is probably making less than $20/hour, if he's making that.

Personally, I'd get the stove back and spend some of my much cheaper time going after this goon. Even to the point of writing a short narrative and see that all companies this joker handles gets a copy of the document. Make sure it is accurate and detailed, you don't want to lose a slander suit.

Had the wife of a prominent attorney upon delivery laugh in my face when I made a substantial delivery and asked to be paid. She said, "So, sue me. My husband is a very prominent attorney." I took her advise, sued her got statements from others less willing to take on the b!#^!$ and filed a greivence with the State Bar for His knowing collusion. A week later, started getting calls from others in the business that they received a certified check as payment in full. I refused the certified letter from the husbands law firm and forced her to show up in court, and admit what she did. I won damages and costs, and the satisfaction she now is a cash in advance customer in the antiques businesseven after ten years.
 
Bkins said:
A case of beer for the removal and a case of beer for the install should take care of all charges. LOL I would think somewhere between $200 to $300 would be fair. There are a lot of variables such as the distance, any steps involved. 2 employees involved, access in the home, hence the spread. What do you feel would be a fair charge to do a 30 mile round trip, 6 steps with otherwise easy access, with 2 employees needed? As I have posted in this forum before the closest dealer in my area think he should be paid a kings ransome for his work and parts. My dealer here has a cost structure posted on his wall, in the showroom, of a insert install. It starts at $ 1,600 and goes up from there. This was a year ago.

Bkins
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Agreed in that all deliveries/pickups are different, and I tend to agree $300 seems fair ($200 seems a bit low) as well. The XXv is a "two guy" unit, in my opinion. I guess one lesson learned here might be to get a quote in writing before the stove ever even leaves. Certainly, if you knew how much they wanted to charge, you never would have gone with them in the first place. When we do service calls we try to communicate what the charges will be BEFORE WE EVER EVEN LEAVE. More often than not, the issue is usually due to cleaning, and most folks are willing to do a more thorough cleaning than pay for a service call. Its not much of an argument when the tech goes to a home, replaces no parts, and it runs 20 mins later!

As an aside, we've had a few issues lately of homeowners who make appointments with the tech, the tech shows in the 1 hour window the homeowner specified, and the homeowner didnt show....what the "right" thing to do there? Heck, we even have one person who made TWO appointments and didnt bother to show for either one. My answer to that is to remind him that it costs us to send a tech over, and in order for us to go back for a 3rd appointment, it will cost $200 just for us to show up....ugh....sucks when its warrantee work too!
 
Lousyweather said:
not saying the outrageous prices here are even close to fair, but I am curious about what you folks think a fair charge is to un-install, pick up, deliver, and re-install the XXV?
Click to expand...

I had it unhooked and waiting for them, they want to charge $240 just to pick ip up.
 
Seems like there is a lot of price gougeing going on there. How far away are you from the servicing shop? I've seen posted 2 hours, one way, and I've seen 16 miles. Not that the distance would make that much difference.

Bkins
 
goatman-68 said:
In the parts breakdown they show a ceramic gasket between the auger tube and the burn pot. I wonder if that is what you are seeing as the gap. I dont see where there is a weld that went bad, unless your auger tube is what cracked.

Here is a link to an exploded view and parts list. http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/serviceParts/XXV.pdf
Click to expand...

Yes the crack is in the auger tube.
 
actually, there are two fiberglass gaskets.....one on the back side of the unit where the auger weldment bolts on, and one on the inside where the burnpot weldment bolts to the auger weldment. And the hole isnt a "crack" in the strictest sense.....more that the projection of the auger weldment into the burnpot has simply burned away, exposing the joint of the brunpot weldment, which wouldnt normally be seen. most of the ones we've seen are in situations where the burnpot weldment had those 5 little holes at the bottom....Im guessing the introduction of oxygen down there causes increased heat due to combustion low in the buirnpot where it wouldnt normally be, and the metal nipple projecting from the burnpot wledment simply wears away.
 
Lousyweather said:
most of the ones we've seen are in situations where the burnpot weldment had those 5 little holes at the bottom....Im guessing the introduction of oxygen down there causes increased heat due to combustion low in the buirnpot where it wouldnt normally be, and the metal nipple projecting from the burnpot wledment simply wears away.
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I will have to check to see if I have the 5 holes in mine. Was this a change they did when they went to direct drive from the chain drive?? I have noticed on my stove that when it is burning at somewhat of a low flame that it is actually burning (in) the auger tube probably an inch or so. Is this normal, or could this be due to the extra holes??

Thanks
 
I know mine has cracked.
 

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If it's metal it can be welded or brazed. Call a good local welder to come take a look. He can probably weld it up, grind it smooth and you'd never know it was repaired, and you may save a ton of cash. In my opinion, you're getting screwed.
Mike -
 
Dr_Drum said:
If it's metal it can be welded or brazed. Call a good local welder to come take a look. He can probably weld it up, grind it smooth and you'd never know it was repaired, and you may save a ton of cash. In my opinion, you're getting screwed.
Mike -
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Already been screwed? Warranty repair costing $1140. I should have just bought a new stove like and Englander would have been cheaper and burning by now!

I then could have taken the Harman and put it through the original dealers window!
 
Sounds like you got the shaft. This is a huge problem in the industry and seems to particularly affect pellet stoves. I think it's due to the high rate of repair and the tendancy for pellet stove repairs to take up more time than their wood and gas counterparts. Personally I think manufacturers should just step up in cases like this. It's a lot less burden on them financially speaking, and transfers the customers anger toward the dealer that didn't perform rather than the manufacturers brand. Manufacturers already dump the vast majority of advertising and brand building costs onto their dealers anyway.
 
Shane said:
Sounds like you got the shaft. This is a huge problem in the industry and seems to particularly affect pellet stoves. I think it's due to the high rate of repair and the tendancy for pellet stove repairs to take up more time than their wood and gas counterparts. Personally I think manufacturers should just step up in cases like this. It's a lot less burden on them financially speaking, and transfers the customers anger toward the dealer that didn't perform rather than the manufacturers brand. Manufacturers already dump the vast majority of advertising and brand building costs onto their dealers anyway.
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Not really mad at the dealer, more so at the guy who saw dollar signs when he picked up my stove and Harman. I have been nothing but polite to the dealer and know that they did not sell the stove but on the other hand don't what to eat the bill for something that should be covered under warranty. I told them up front that I was willing to pay something within reason, the bill I have is not within reason in borders on insane! On top of that I have to pay the service guy up front and wait for Harman to reimburse me and was told it would take 2-3 weeks. I am someone who is struggling to pay my bills and keep food on the table, and my wife had to leave her job 4 yrs ago because she can no longer work and fighting the government to get disability. Now my problem is how am I going to heat my house, soon I will run out of oil and I bought 4 tons of pellets to heat the house with and that oil would have lasted until spring. I now have two things I will not recommend Harman and Breeding & Day Inc!
 
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