Using pellets, how to prevent frozen pipes?

RI_P43 · Dec 17, 2009

Hi, this is our first season with a pellet stove. We love it!

We have two-zone heating and on the level where the pellet stove is, the heat never turns on (the thermostat usually reads 75-77). We have an oil boiler and hot water baseboards. Some of the pipes go through exterior walls and apparently the previous owners of the home had some problems with pipes freezing in one room in particular.

I want to know what I can do to stop the pipes from freezing since the boiler isn't turning on.

The oil company recommended putting antifreeze into the system.

Any thoughts on setting the thermostat to 78-80 so that we'll have hot water going through the pipes but the boiler will only have to bring the thermostat from 75 or 77 (where the pellet stove keeps the room with the thermostat) to 78 or 80?

Thank you!

Best,
David in Rhode Island.

daydreamer · Dec 17, 2009

Do a search for Thermguard on this forum. Here is one of many postings about it.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/41925/

Or check it out at the website.
http://www.bearmountaindesign.com/

bridgerman · Dec 18, 2009

Hi David,

Thaks for your inquiry into ThermGuard!

I list your questions from your PM to me and the the answers below in bold. Your questions were good and could answer questions for other people.

First, how does the boiler know what temperature to heat the water to when the ThermGuard forces it to turn on?
The boiler just turns on as it normally does. The temperature is set internally in the boiler. ThermGuard just turns on the circulator pump and the boiler automatically heats the water.

Second, even though this isn’t a forced hot air system, will the ThermGuard making the “fan” turn on actually force hot water through the pipes? I thought the “fan” function on our programmable thermostat was for the air conditioner (but I know nothing, this was just my assumption).
Yes, ThermGuard was designed for hot water baseboard systems. That is what I have in my house. When ThermGuard turns on, it will circulate hot water through the pipes periodically and keep them from freezing. I had my pipes burst twice in my house and it was very expensive to repair all the damage. That is when I invented ThermGuard.

Finally, if I ordered later today, do you have any options for expedited shipping (priority, overnight, FedEx/UPS)?
I offer free UP Post shipping. Anything other than that is an additional charge. I can send you a PayPal invoice fo the cost of ThermGuard and any other tyoe of shipping you would like. I can ship UPS so you can get from overnight to 3-day. Just send and email to: [email protected] and I will respond with an invoice. ThermGuard can ship today to you.
Cheers,
John Walsh
Bear Mountain Design

imacman · Dec 18, 2009

RI_P43 said:
.....I want to know what I can do to stop the pipes from freezing since the boiler isn't turning on.......The oil company recommended putting antifreeze into the system. David in Rhode Island.

David, don't bother with the anti-freeze....it's toxic, and expensive, and if there ever WAS a leak, your not just cleaning up some water.

Get the ThermGuard as mentioned above...it will solve your problem easily. I was one of the first people on this forum to install one, and LOVE it! John from Bear Mtn. Design is a good guy to do business with, and has a great product.

RI_P43 · Dec 18, 2009

Thank you all for the input. I'm definitely going to be purchasing a ThermGuard.

As far as the anti-freeze is concerned, I didn't mention that I already had it done because I wanted to get reactions.

Yes, it was expensive.

I just want to be really really sure that we don't have any frozen pipes - it has been REALLY cold the last few days!

Thanks again,
David

breklaw · Dec 20, 2009

David. How expensive was it? I live not far from you and have been thinking about having it put in my house. When the poop really hits the fan, and we don't have power for days, I'd like to know those pipes were OK.
Bill W

RI_P43 · Dec 20, 2009

I'll see if I can find the paperwork later today, but from what I recall it was around the $350-$400 range. I think it was about 10 gal of antifreeze. They drained the system and it is almost completely antifreeze now.

rowerwet · Dec 20, 2009

antifreeze for boilers is around $15/gal depending on where you buy it, you need 50% to keep from freezing, I would have needed 45 gal for my OPB, for that money I got a good generator instead.

imacman · Dec 20, 2009

rowerwet said:
antifreeze for boilers is around $15/gal depending on where you buy it, you need 50% to keep from freezing, I would have needed 45 gal for my OPB, for that money I got a good generator instead.

I agree w/ rowerwet....for that kind of $$, get a small generator that will run the pellet stove & heating system. And add a few dollars more, and get one that will take care of the refrig and some lights......the anti freeze in the pipes won't help you with those.

j00fek · Dec 20, 2009

for the first 2 yrs i just upped the t-stat when i got up or just before i went to bed.

i installed all digital t-stats through out the house this yr and i finally got it to where i have my oil run every 6-10hrs on a schedule, or if the house needs extra heat, the oil will be on.

breklaw · Dec 20, 2009

I must be very lucky here, probably jinxing myself, but when it is real cold here, I just keep the pstove as high as it will go.

I do have a question, however. Does anybody notice there is a point at which increasing the blower number does NOT increase the speed/sound of the blower? In my case it is 7. So I wonder, if the blower is already at max rpm, does it make sense to incresae it further? I would think it would be a waste of electricity, and maybe taxing ( more unnecessary current) on the motor as well.
Thoughts??
Bill W

New Hampshire Jim · Dec 21, 2009

I also have the pellet stove in the room that the thermostat is in and that zone would never turn on when the pellet stove is running. Years ago I had a wood stove where the pellet stove is now located and I froze heating pipes a couple of times. My solution to this was to not run the wood stove If It was going to be cold and windy.When I installed the pellet stove I wanted a better solution and got 2 Thermoguards for my FHW system. This last week we have had temperatures In the teens and winds of 20 to 30MPH I dont want to jinx my setup by crowing about It but I can tell you as time goes by I am getting less worried about freezing pipes and am running the pellet stove more and more. I do recommend there product as doing what they advertised It will do

Dr_Drum · Dec 21, 2009

I also think the ThermGaurd is your best bet, but for the record, the anti-freeze used in hydronic systems is supposed to be non-toxic. If a burner tech installed automotive anti-freeze in your system you should be worried. He could also lose his license. This is because the closed loop of the base board piping (containing the anti-freeze) could get sucked into the closed loop of the clean (faucet water) system if you got a hole in your heat exchanger tubing, assuming you heat your hot water off the boiler and not an electric/gas etc. The non-toxic anti-freeze also contains heat transfer agents, like "engine ice" for motorcycles.
Mike -

rowerwet · Dec 21, 2009

the other big problem with antifreeze, it should be changed after some years (read the bottle), you have to be careful about PH levels in the system, if you get a leak or have a slow leak you are loosing rather expensive fluid and compromising the protection it gives, and with a slow leak you won't know until it freezes.

Steve NH · Dec 21, 2009

j00fek said:
for the first 2 yrs i just upped the t-stat when i got up or just before i went to bed.

i installed all digital t-stats through out the house this yr and i finally got it to where i have my oil run every 6-10hrs on a schedule, or if the house needs extra heat, the oil will be on.

That's pretty much the system I use. -
I have my thermostat set to that it comes on every morning at 2 AM for 15 mins (Temp is set a few degrees higher than my stove for that period of time)

I have one pipe that had frozen once in the past before using this method.

Been working great since I started doing this

Stevie · Dec 21, 2009

New Hampshire Jim said:
I also have the pellet stove in the room that the thermostat is in and that zone would never turn on when the pellet stove is running. Years ago I had a wood stove where the pellet stove is now located and I froze heating pipes a couple of times. My solution to this was to not run the wood stove If It was going to be cold and windy.When I installed the pellet stove I wanted a better solution and got 2 Thermoguards for my FHW system. This last week we have had temperatures In the teens and winds of 20 to 30MPH I dont want to jinx my setup by crowing about It but I can tell you as time goes by I am getting less worried about freezing pipes and am running the pellet stove more and more. I do recommend there product as doing what they advertised It will do

I agree with Jim. Just installed a ThermGuard and I feel I can rest assured my pipes aren't gonna freeze (unless I lose power for a good while). So far, so good. The unit works as it states, and installation was a snap. Thanks John, and BearMountainDesigns.

Steve

Birdman Jack · Dec 21, 2009

Stevie said:
New Hampshire Jim said:

I also have the pellet stove in the room that the thermostat is in and that zone would never turn on when the pellet stove is running. Years ago I had a wood stove where the pellet stove is now located and I froze heating pipes a couple of times. My solution to this was to not run the wood stove If It was going to be cold and windy.When I installed the pellet stove I wanted a better solution and got 2 Thermoguards for my FHW system. This last week we have had temperatures In the teens and winds of 20 to 30MPH I dont want to jinx my setup by crowing about It but I can tell you as time goes by I am getting less worried about freezing pipes and am running the pellet stove more and more. I do recommend there product as doing what they advertised It will do

Click to expand...

I agree with Jim. Just installed a ThermGuard and I feel I can rest assured my pipes aren't gonna freeze (unless I lose power for a good while). So far, so good. The unit works as it states, and installation was a snap. Thanks John, and BearMountainDesigns.

Steve

This is how I solved my problem because I had a utility room that was going to freeze. Has the washer watersoftner and boiler all in one room but this keeps everything from freezing and we have already been -4 with 20 mile an hour wind rumbling through this place. So I made these.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/48073/

MCPO · Dec 21, 2009

Installing a Therm Guard sounds like good insurance but it could be a band aid approach to an unresolved problem, at least in some situations.
The first order of business in any cellar/basement should be to minimize cold infiltration:
1........insulate exposed sills between all rafters directly above the foundation
2........install insulation on exposed water pipes.
3........tightly seal any and all doors and basement windows.
4........foam or insulate good around exterior water faucets , dryer vent, etc.
5........If and when possible , insulate concrete/block walls

rowerwet · Dec 21, 2009

birdman Jack said:
Stevie said:

New Hampshire Jim said:

I also have the pellet stove in the room that the thermostat is in and that zone would never turn on when the pellet stove is running. Years ago I had a wood stove where the pellet stove is now located and I froze heating pipes a couple of times. My solution to this was to not run the wood stove If It was going to be cold and windy.When I installed the pellet stove I wanted a better solution and got 2 Thermoguards for my FHW system. This last week we have had temperatures In the teens and winds of 20 to 30MPH I dont want to jinx my setup by crowing about It but I can tell you as time goes by I am getting less worried about freezing pipes and am running the pellet stove more and more. I do recommend there product as doing what they advertised It will do

Click to expand...

I agree with Jim. Just installed a ThermGuard and I feel I can rest assured my pipes aren't gonna freeze (unless I lose power for a good while). So far, so good. The unit works as it states, and installation was a snap. Thanks John, and BearMountainDesigns.

Steve

Click to expand...

This is how I solved my problem because I had a utility room that was going to freeze. Has the washer watersoftner and boiler all in one room but this keeps everything from freezing and we have already been -4 with 20 mile an hour wind rumbling through this place. So I made these.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/48073/

your idea is cool, how far away from the stove are the baseboard fins? I have a friend at work who wants to do this with his wood stove, however from what you say about water temps I don't think the water will deliver any heat to distant baseboards, as he wants to use this idea to heat other rooms I don't think it would work.
For freeze protection with out burning oil this is great!

begreen · Dec 21, 2009

Running the boiler once or twice a day is not a big deal. If this is a long term issue, adding a basement radiator in a separate zone with its own thermostat is a peace of mind fix. Cheaper would be an electric space heater set to about 40 degrees.

Birdman Jack · Dec 21, 2009

rowerwet said:
birdman Jack said:

Stevie said:

New Hampshire Jim said:

I also have the pellet stove in the room that the thermostat is in and that zone would never turn on when the pellet stove is running. Years ago I had a wood stove where the pellet stove is now located and I froze heating pipes a couple of times. My solution to this was to not run the wood stove If It was going to be cold and windy.When I installed the pellet stove I wanted a better solution and got 2 Thermoguards for my FHW system. This last week we have had temperatures In the teens and winds of 20 to 30MPH I dont want to jinx my setup by crowing about It but I can tell you as time goes by I am getting less worried about freezing pipes and am running the pellet stove more and more. I do recommend there product as doing what they advertised It will do

Click to expand...

I agree with Jim. Just installed a ThermGuard and I feel I can rest assured my pipes aren't gonna freeze (unless I lose power for a good while). So far, so good. The unit works as it states, and installation was a snap. Thanks John, and BearMountainDesigns.

Steve

Click to expand...

This is how I solved my problem because I had a utility room that was going to freeze. Has the washer watersoftner and boiler all in one room but this keeps everything from freezing and we have already been -4 with 20 mile an hour wind rumbling through this place. So I made these.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/48073/

Click to expand...

your idea is cool, how far away from the stove are the baseboard fins? I have a friend at work who wants to do this with his wood stove, however from what you say about water temps I don't think the water will deliver any heat to distant baseboards, as he wants to use this idea to heat other rooms I don't think it would work.
For freeze protection with out burning oil this is great!

I only have on zone it is a parameter zone probably two hundred feet in the loop. I broke the loop in back of my pellet stove and inserted the heaters into the loop. It does heat the two rooms but only to about 40 degrees. One room is 12 x 12 the other is 8 x 10. The eight by ten stays warmer because that is where the boiler I am heating thru the pellet stove is. When I have the boxes made for the heaters and they are insulated I hope there is a significant increase in temperature. I will keep you posted if you are interested. Better yet keep an eye on the modified stoves forumn I listed earlier. I will be putting more pictures on and some readings I am about to take.

Using pellets, how to prevent frozen pipes?

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