Which size Englander Stove.

GatorDL55 · Dec 23, 2009

Hello -

New to the forum. Have been reading all kinds of posts for the past few weeks and have a question to throw out there - I am looking at a Summers Heat stove at Lowes and am trying to figure out the best size. Live in Cleveland so we do see some cold winters. Have a 1950's ranch with a basement. The main level and basement are approximately 1000 square feet each for a grand total of about 2000 feet. I am in the process of finishing the basement and want to put in a wood burning stove. I am debating on the size that I would need. Would you suggest the NC-30 (heats 2200 sq ft) that i have heard a lot of good things about or the NC-13 (heats 1800 sq ft). I wouldn't mind spending the extra money to get the bigger stove - I just want to make sure that it isn't overkill for my house. I am also planning a vent with a fan to move heat to the main level from the basement. Also, chimney is currently occupied with a furnace and gas hot water heater so I will run a flue pipe up through the middle of the house. I have a perfect section that I can just frame a bulkhead on the first floor to route the flue through the main level up to the roof.

Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

blel · Dec 23, 2009

There are lots of discussions on here about stoves in basements. You could do a search and sort thru some of them. Most don't find it a very effective way to heat. If you have a fairly open floor plan you might be better off getting a 13 and putting it on the main floor. I have a cape in which the first floor is about 1000 sf and have a 13. It works pretty well for my needs. I don't burn 24/7, mostly just late pm and nights. If I load it up at night , it is out in the morning, maybe a few coals (small firebox). The other morning I was up at 4am and checked it, plenty of red hot coals so I loaded it up and went back to bed. A 30 in my situation would be overkill.

dave11 · Dec 23, 2009

GatorDL55 said:
Hello -

New to the forum. Have been reading all kinds of posts for the past few weeks and have a question to throw out there - I am looking at a Summers Heat stove at Lowes and am trying to figure out the best size. Live in Cleveland so we do see some cold winters. Have a 1950's ranch with a basement. The main level and basement are approximately 1000 square feet each for a grand total of about 2000 feet. I am in the process of finishing the basement and want to put in a wood burning stove. I am debating on the size that I would need. Would you suggest the NC-30 (heats 2200 sq ft) that i have heard a lot of good things about or the NC-13 (heats 1800 sq ft). I wouldn't mind spending the extra money to get the bigger stove - I just want to make sure that it isn't overkill for my house. I am also planning a vent with a fan to move heat to the main level from the basement. Also, chimney is currently occupied with a furnace and gas hot water heater so I will run a flue pipe up through the middle of the house. I have a perfect section that I can just frame a bulkhead on the first floor to route the flue through the main level up to the roof.

Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

I have the 30NC, also in a basement, about 1500 SF, and it will heat the whole thing satisfactorily, even though part of the basement is still uninsulated. The blower for it does help in that regard. How much heat you will get upstairs though is hard to say. A vent between the two floors might help with air circulation, but can also affect your draft, by contributing to warmer air moving upstairs, then into the attic, etc. It can also be a fire hazard.

I wouldn't put too much store in the advertised BTU output of any stove, for reasons that become clear the longer you read this forum. It is very dependent upon how dry your wood is, what type of wood you burn, how you build your fires, how much air you give it, how much draft you have, etc. All have a significant impact on how much heat you get out of the stove.

Whether to get the 13 or the 30 is hard to say, because only a few folks here have used both. I can see how the 30 would be too big for a smaller room, or for a well-insulated one.

Are you from Broadview originally? I was born and raised in Richmond Heights.

Jags · Dec 23, 2009

Get the big boy. The 13 is a nice unit, but at 1.8 cuft firebox, probably not the one for you.

And in the off season, you can use the 30 for a wine cellar. :cheese: That sucker has a big box.

GatorDL55 · Dec 23, 2009

dave11 said:
GatorDL55 said:

Hello -

New to the forum. Have been reading all kinds of posts for the past few weeks and have a question to throw out there - I am looking at a Summers Heat stove at Lowes and am trying to figure out the best size. Live in Cleveland so we do see some cold winters. Have a 1950's ranch with a basement. The main level and basement are approximately 1000 square feet each for a grand total of about 2000 feet. I am in the process of finishing the basement and want to put in a wood burning stove. I am debating on the size that I would need. Would you suggest the NC-30 (heats 2200 sq ft) that i have heard a lot of good things about or the NC-13 (heats 1800 sq ft). I wouldn't mind spending the extra money to get the bigger stove - I just want to make sure that it isn't overkill for my house. I am also planning a vent with a fan to move heat to the main level from the basement. Also, chimney is currently occupied with a furnace and gas hot water heater so I will run a flue pipe up through the middle of the house. I have a perfect section that I can just frame a bulkhead on the first floor to route the flue through the main level up to the roof.

Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

Click to expand...

I have the 30NC, also in a basement, about 1500 SF, and it will heat the whole thing satisfactorily, even though part of the basement is still uninsulated. The blower for it does help in that regard. How much heat you will get upstairs though is hard to say. A vent between the two floors might help with air circulation, but can also affect your draft, by contributing to warmer air moving upstairs, then into the attic, etc. It can also be a fire hazard.

I wouldn't put too much store in the advertised BTU output of any stove, for reasons that become clear the longer you read this forum. It is very dependent upon how dry your wood is, what type of wood you burn, how you build your fires, how much air you give it, how much draft you have, etc. All have a significant impact on how much heat you get out of the stove.

Whether to get the 13 or the 30 is hard to say, because only a few folks here have used both. I can see how the 30 would be too big for a smaller room, or for a well-insulated one.

Are you from Broadview originally? I was born and raised in Richmond Heights.

Good points here. I think I am leaning towards the 30 but wanted some opinions. I am originally from central PA but have lived here in OH for about 3 years now. Wood is a little more difficult to come by here versus walking out your back door and into the woods with a chainsaw in PA.

Dave

freeburn · Dec 23, 2009

You can always build small fires in a stove that's too big, when it's warm. When it's cold you can't build a bigger fire in a small stove.

cre73 · Dec 23, 2009

I was making this same decision last year. The input from the great people here steered me to the NC-30. Here is the quote that helped make my choice. "You can always make a small fire in a big fire box but you can't make a big fire in a small firebox" I will admit the NC30 is a little much but it has been nice to have on the super cold days and not having to worry about if the stove will keep up. Last year on the coldest day of the winter my father-in-law called and asked how we were doing, the wife checked the temps in the house it was 83F in the main living area and 75F in the back part of the house. By my estimation the NC30 and the install payed for itself the first year and this year I should be about 500.oo ahead at this point. Burning 24/7 and have not bought an ounce of fuel oil in two years.

Free burn beat me to the quote.

dave11 · Dec 23, 2009

freeburn said:
You can always build small fires in a stove that's too big, when it's warm. When it's cold you can't build a bigger fire in a small stove.

I agree in principle, but for me, it's nearly impossible to build a small fire in the 30NC. It takes too much heat to bring the firebox up to secondary burn stage, and takes too much heat to bring the liner up to temp in the long run to the top, which is the case with any basement install. A small fire will take forever to do so, with lots of tending required along the way. I gave up on that. Now I just build a huge roaring fire to start with, and maintain with a split or two every hour or so, to keep it really hot. Based on that, I sometimes wonder if the 13NC would have been a better choice for me, as supplemental heat.

SlyFerret · Dec 23, 2009

I'm still learning to hold my 30 back. It wants to run, that's for sure!

I've found that it just isn't possible to keep the stove going all the time. I burn a load, and then let the house cool back down before I re-light. That means I end up doing 12 hour burn cycles that usually require cold starts. The super cedar fire starters make that a lot easier though.

In the end, I'm trying to find the right size to split my wood so that I can get the best control over this beast.

-SF

Valhalla · Dec 23, 2009

I prefer to burn somewhat smaller stoves hotter and
cleaner!

The heat loss of the space to be heated must be considered.

Hiram Maxim · Dec 23, 2009

freeburn said:
You can always build small fires in a stove that's too big, when it's warm. When it's cold you can't build a bigger fire in a small stove.

+1 Great advice!

Last Winter should have taught us all this lesson.

I have a 1950's ranch about your size.

I live 2 hrs North West of Cleavland and with the weather in this region.....go with the 30!

You will appreciate overnight burns and if I remember the 30 is more efficient than the 13.

Cheers and Happy Holidays, Hiram

BrotherBart · Dec 23, 2009

dave11 is right. The only way you are gonna moderate the heat with the big boy is to fire it up and then let it burn down. There isn't any burning a clean small fire without getting the stove up to temp. I was burning two very small oak splits yesterday afternoon and it was cruising along at 500 degrees.

drumbum · Dec 23, 2009

+1 for the 30. Small fire for me means a few small splits on a moderate coal bed, no need to load to the gills every time. But when it's cold and windy that big firebox is the way to go.

It costs nothing to open a window.

Captain · Dec 23, 2009

My house is set up exactly like yours, 1950's ranch, about the same size. I heat 24/7 with the 13. It does a great job, and about the only time it gets somewhat behind on being able to heat is when the temps go below zero. Even then it never gets below 65. It is pretty surprising how much heat it throws out. But mine is not in the basement, it is in the living room.

My suggestion is, if you do put it in the basement, I think you'll need the 30. If you put it in the main living area (what I think will give you better results), the 13 will work. I had a stove last year before my 13 that was way to big, and most of the time it sucked being so hot, it just got miserable. The only time I could get comfortable with that darn thing is when it was -20 or more out!! But those are rare times. The 13 seems well matched to my house size overall. Would I like a slightly bigger firebox? Yep, just a little more (like about 2.25 cu. ft.). But the 30 is a bit much IMO. A bigger stove also uses more wood.

Have you checked out the Napoleon Independence 1450? It seems to be a great price, is based off of the 1400 series which are great, and the firebox size (2.25) would be just about right. Had it been out last year I would have given it a lot of thought.

GatorDL55 · Dec 23, 2009

Captain said:
My house is set up exactly like yours, 1950's ranch, about the same size. I heat 24/7 with the 13. It does a great job, and about the only time it gets somewhat behind on being able to heat is when the temps go below zero. Even then it never gets below 65. It is pretty surprising how much heat it throws out. But mine is not in the basement, it is in the living room.

My suggestion is, if you do put it in the basement, I think you'll need the 30. If you put it in the main living area (what I think will give you better results), the 13 will work. I had a stove last year before my 13 that was way to big, and most of the time it sucked being so hot, it just got miserable. The only time I could get comfortable with that darn thing is when it was -20 or more out!! But those are rare times. The 13 seems well matched to my house size overall. Would I like a slightly bigger firebox? Yep, just a little more (like about 2.25 cu. ft.). But the 30 is a bit much IMO. A bigger stove also uses more wood.

Have you checked out the Napoleon Independence 1450? It seems to be a great price, is based off of the 1400 series which are great, and the firebox size (2.25) would be just about right. Had it been out last year I would have given it a lot of thought.

I'll take a look at the 1450. I haven't heard of it - where would you buy one?

I thought about putting my burner in the living room on the main floor but the area is not that large. By the time I made all of the clearances around the stove, the rest of the furniture would probably need to be smacked together to get it all to fit. One benefit of putting in the basement is that once it is finished, it will also keep the basement warm. Basement is fairly cold now and probably wouldn't be too comfortable down there (too cold).

Captain · Dec 23, 2009

There are several places online selling them, some with free shipping. Also, if you go to Napoleon's site, you can look up dealers in your area. I personally have no problem buying online, but in the case of a stove, I wouldn't until I've seen one in person.

dave11 · Dec 23, 2009

GatorDL55 said:
Captain said:

My house is set up exactly like yours, 1950's ranch, about the same size. I heat 24/7 with the 13. It does a great job, and about the only time it gets somewhat behind on being able to heat is when the temps go below zero. Even then it never gets below 65. It is pretty surprising how much heat it throws out. But mine is not in the basement, it is in the living room.

My suggestion is, if you do put it in the basement, I think you'll need the 30. If you put it in the main living area (what I think will give you better results), the 13 will work. I had a stove last year before my 13 that was way to big, and most of the time it sucked being so hot, it just got miserable. The only time I could get comfortable with that darn thing is when it was -20 or more out!! But those are rare times. The 13 seems well matched to my house size overall. Would I like a slightly bigger firebox? Yep, just a little more (like about 2.25 cu. ft.). But the 30 is a bit much IMO. A bigger stove also uses more wood.

Have you checked out the Napoleon Independence 1450? It seems to be a great price, is based off of the 1400 series which are great, and the firebox size (2.25) would be just about right. Had it been out last year I would have given it a lot of thought.

Click to expand...

I'll take a look at the 1450. I haven't heard of it - where would you buy one?

I thought about putting my burner in the living room on the main floor but the area is not that large. By the time I made all of the clearances around the stove, the rest of the furniture would probably need to be smacked together to get it all to fit. One benefit of putting in the basement is that once it is finished, it will also keep the basement warm. Basement is fairly cold now and probably wouldn't be too comfortable down there (too cold).

Not to belabor this point, but if you put your stove in the basement, it is possible that it will only keep your basement warm. I still have to heat my living areas with other means, no matter how hot or long I run the 30NC. I run them less than I did, but still quite a lot. Radiant heat doesn't pass through the floor very well, or very fast.

The best advice I got from this site is to put the stove where you spend most of your time. For me, that's my basement/workshop, so that's what I did, and i'm glad. If you don't plan on spending a lot of time in your basement, you might consider the stove in your LR instead.

Just saying...

Jags · Dec 23, 2009

Not discounting what captain is saying, cuz it is a very valid point, but I would like to point out that the ratio of oversized stoves to undersized is about 1:100.

Considering the install is in the basement is worth a bunch of btu's right there.

Captain · Dec 23, 2009

dave11 said:
Not to belabor this point, but if you put your stove in the basement, it is possible that it will only keep your basement warm. I still have to heat my living areas with other means, no matter how hot or long I run the 30NC. I run them less than I did, but still quite a lot. Radiant heat doesn't pass through the floor very well, or very fast.

The best advice I got from this site is to put the stove where you spend most of your time. For me, that's my basement/workshop, so that's what I did, and i'm glad. If you don't plan on spending a lot of time in your basement, you might consider the stove in your LR instead.

Just saying...

I agree completely.

blel · Dec 23, 2009

I agree with Captain. If you put it in basement get the 30. On the main floor the 30 probably drive you outside.

From all the threads on stoves in basements, I don't remember much on how much heat you get up using floor grates. Maybe the 30 with 3-4 floor grates will get the heart upstairs.

Yea, a little bigger fire box on the 13 would be great. Not so much for more heat but longer burn time. Overall I have no problems with my 13.

stoveguy2esw · Dec 24, 2009

diferent houses "heat differently" the OP has a "finished" basement my questions are; are the outer walls studded out and insulated? does the house hold heat well? if yes , maybe a 13 can handle it though overnight burns in a less than 2 CF firebox are dicey. if no then the 30 would be the choice due to having to overcome the added heat load created by the maount of thermal mass in the basement walls , uninsulated concrete or block walls are heat suckers and can initially rob you of the heat that may be needed to push the heat upstairs.

Bigg_Redd · Dec 24, 2009

GatorDL55 said:
Hello -

New to the forum. Have been reading all kinds of posts for the past few weeks and have a question to throw out there - I am looking at a Summers Heat stove at Lowes and am trying to figure out the best size. Live in Cleveland so we do see some cold winters. Have a 1950's ranch with a basement. The main level and basement are approximately 1000 square feet each for a grand total of about 2000 feet. I am in the process of finishing the basement and want to put in a wood burning stove. I am debating on the size that I would need. Would you suggest the NC-30 (heats 2200 sq ft) that i have heard a lot of good things about or the NC-13 (heats 1800 sq ft). I wouldn't mind spending the extra money to get the bigger stove - I just want to make sure that it isn't overkill for my house. I am also planning a vent with a fan to move heat to the main level from the basement. Also, chimney is currently occupied with a furnace and gas hot water heater so I will run a flue pipe up through the middle of the house. I have a perfect section that I can just frame a bulkhead on the first floor to route the flue through the main level up to the roof.

Any suggestions and/or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

The 30 is way too much stove for 1000 sq ft. You will never get the upstairs at a reasonable temp without bringing the hellfire to the basement.

Which size Englander Stove.

Member

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Moderate Moderator

Member

Feeling the Heat

Member

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Modesterator

Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Minister of Fire

Moderate Moderator

New Member

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Similar threads