7 degrees & windy in New England, Austroflamm Integra II fills house with smoke (again)..

eddyburns · Dec 30, 2009

It was the coldest night of the year and my year-old Austroflamm (Rika) Integra II nightmare continued. It ran fine for 8-12 hours before malfunctioning. The stove shut down both blowers, permitting the fire to die prior to restarting the blowers and filling the burn pot (and pellet feed tube) with pellets... The pellets began to smoke (but not light) and the blowers shut off again. The house filled with smoked before the blowers resumed functioning (erratically). Once this happened, the blowers jump around between high, low and off, sometimes accompanied by with a deep motor straining noise when the blower shuts down. After I shut the unit down and it unit cools off, it runs normally again for another half a day.

Yesterday, after waiting fifteen (15) days for warranty service to fix the issue, I paid $90 for a service call to adjust the hopper lid switch (???). The stove's warranty has been useless, since the shop shop won't replace the suspected main board out of fear that the Distributor will not reimburse for the repair if the board tests OK later. So I have more than a half dozen videos over the past two weeks showing the stove malfunctioning, but can't get parts replaced until "they are sure what it is". The Distributor hasn't seen anything like this before and the stove shop is guessing based on limited experience with these units. Its especially frustrating since the malfunctions are intermittent and I can't seem to get it to malfunction when someone is here. Once the stove begins malfunctioning, I have to turn it off (though I've been told there's no danger of a house fire, the excessive smoke may not be good for the 4 & 5 year old children living in the house).

My patience has worn out and I regret this $4100 investment.

Ed

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 30, 2009

Ed,

Did the auger stop feeding after the blowers went off the first time and is your hi limit snap disc (if any) auto reset?

eddyburns · Dec 30, 2009

I have seen no reference to a high limit snap disk with the Austroflamm/Rika stoves. After it shuts off and resets, it runs fine for a while.

Is the high limit snap disk something that has to be replaced after it "snaps"?

There are no error codes on the display - something the Distributor finds interesting.

Thanks

Ed

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 30, 2009

eddyburns said:
I have seen no reference to a high limit snap disk with the Austroflamm/Rika stoves. After it shuts off and resets, it runs fine for a while.

Is the high limit snap disk something that has to be replaced after it "snaps"?

There are no error codes on the display - something the Distributor finds interesting.

Thanks

Ed

A hi limit normally comes in two forms auto reset and push to reset.

I was never a fan of the auto reset switches being used as safeties under certain conditions.

Is there an installation and owners manual available on-line ?

If there is I'll download it and spend a bit of time going through it. But it will be this evening before I'll be able to get to it.

jtakeman · Dec 30, 2009

SmokeyTheBear said:
A hi limit normally comes in two forms auto reset and push to reset.

I was never a fan of the auto reset switches being used as safeties under certain conditions.

Me neither, Really hard to diagnose the auto reset hi limits. Much rather see a manual reset. But wish the stove manufacturer's would provide an access door to get at them. Or some type of remote reset button.

Are you running the stove close to max heat setting? Some stoves are not meant to run at there extreme heat settings for long periods.

eddyburns · Dec 30, 2009

There is a high temperature cutoff switch - and the stove shuts down at higher settings (65-75%) of max. However, it has also shut down at 30-35% of max - thats whats confusing. (In fact, its functioning erratically this very moment while set at 50% - kids and wife are out, so the stove is on again).

I believe the pellet feed stops at the same time the blowers shut down - would a high temp shutoff switch turn off the feed auger, the combustion blower and the convection blower? Everything shuts down, only the display on the side indicates the stove is running (without error codes).

I understand a high temperature shutoff switch cutting off the fuel (pellet feed), but shutting off all the blowers when the switch reads "excessively" hot would prevent cooling. How do other stoves work?

Thanks

Ed

iceman · Dec 30, 2009

eddyburns said:
There is a high temperature cutoff switch - and the stove shuts down at higher settings (65-75%) of max. However, it has also shut down at 30-35% of max - thats whats confusing. (In fact, its functioning erratically this very moment while set at 50% - kids and wife are out, so the stove is on again).

I believe the pellet feed stops at the same time the blowers shut down - would a high temp shutoff switch turn off the feed auger, the combustion blower and the convection blower? Everything shuts down, only the display on the side indicates the stove is running (without error codes).

I understand a high temperature shutoff switch cutting off the fuel (pellet feed), but shutting off all the blowers when the switch reads "excessively" hot would prevent cooling. How do other stoves work?

Thanks

Ed

could you please post what your settings are on the control board?

you have a bad motherboard......
all pellet stove are designed to keep the blower/combustion fans running for a certain time/temp this is a safety feature to prevent exactly what is happening to you....filling up with smoke..... check your pipes just to rule out anything weird (never know with pellets stoves) but one thing that has me curious is how is smoke getting into your house?? most stoves (especially when vented properly) are sealed enough as to smoke doesnt come out ... a natural draft would usually make the smoke go out on its own... most of the time.. not always

eddyburns · Dec 30, 2009

The control board settings is manual - there are no real settings besides the relative combustion rate (0-100%). All settings for feed rates are at the factory defaults with the exception of the convection blower which is set to high (150% of factory).

These stoves don't have alot of settings unless you decide to increase the pellet feed rates or cleaning cycle frequency. Ironically, everything worked fine from January 2009 when it was installed until early December when everything became erratic. I suspect the motherboard because of the erratic nature and absence of error codes), but since it won't fail consistently, I have to buy a new motherboard ($750+-) and possibly a new control board ($200+-).

I have seen somewhere the codes to access the factory settings, so I'll post these later.

Thanks for your help.

imacman · Dec 30, 2009

eddyburns said:
......Ironically, everything worked fine from January 2009 when it was installed until early December when everything became erratic. I suspect the motherboard because of the erratic nature and absence of error codes)......

I'll throw out my usual question, even though it may not be relevant here. You say that the stove ran fine from Jan. '09 until December, and then became "erratic".

So the real question is when was the last COMPLETE cleaning done? Blowers removed & cleaned, pipes cleaned 100%, ash traps all cleaned, plus all the normal cleaning items (firebox, pot, heat exchanger, ash pan, etc)?

BTW, were there any warnings signs, or did this just happen all of a sudden?

eddyburns · Dec 31, 2009

Ash pan gets cleaned every 3 days. Every 2-3 weeks, I pull out the back plates and clean out with vac, including heat exchange tubes, etc. After last season, I cleaned the pipes. After stove began to act erratic, I pulled the motors, cleaned the back passage, etc. (note, everything was pretty clean).

This change happened one morning - suddenly ~ unlike the slow changes in burning patterns when the unit begins to need a cleaning.

teetah222 · Dec 31, 2009

Dare I ask if you have a clean-out T in the stove pipe, and has it been cleaned? Maybe it is just enough constricted that airflow changing in the pipe can change something. Just brainstorming here...

maglite67 · Dec 31, 2009

Sounds like the control board to me. Do you have ver. 1.32 or 1.39 you should be on the 1.39. Your dealer should not be worried about the 500 dollars for the board when they have an unhappy customer. call Rika and explain the problem and ask for service and if not fixed you want a refund or replacement. Even a white lie like your child is allergic to smoke and could have to goto the doctor may help if you hit a wall.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

Ed,

About the convection air blower being at 150% of default. Would it be possible to back that off and oiling the convection blower if it has oil ports?

I haven't pulled a manual for that stove yet and I really don't want to read one this evening, its been a long day. But here is a possibility, your convection motor could be thermaling off causing the over fire switch to open stopping the pellet feed. After a short period of time it can cool enough to restart letting any auto reset hi limit to also reset starting the pellet feed which by that time the stove has almost reached shut down.

This could lead to pellets hitting a hot smoldering burn pot leading to tons o smoke that isn't going to be drafted out the flue easily.

Please note this is just a wild hind end guess. This condition would start after the lubrication in the motor has evaporated off, it would first show up when the stove has to work hard and eventually it will get more frequent as the last of the oil is evaporated. Some stoves running on low will never cause the hi temp limit to be reached so it won't always happen.

eddyburns · Dec 31, 2009

I cleaned out the clean out T two weeks ago. there are no oil ports (look like sealed bearings) for the convection and combustion blowers.

Control Board Software version is 1.36.
Convection blower is 150.
Cleaning cycle 60 minutes
Fuel type 1

Here are the control panel software settings - they look like the factory defaults.
s1 = .9 (min. auger pulse in 1/10 seconds)
s2 = 3.3 (max. auger pulse in 1/10 seconds)
r1 = 1 (delay in initiating shtdown cycle in minutes)
r2 = 120 (duration of final cleaning in seconds)
n1 = 5 (duration of cool down phase in seconds)
z1 = 12 (duration of igniter during startup in minutes)
a1 = 21 (startup cycle duration in minutes)
g1 = 110 (minimum rpm of combustion fan at lowest heat output setting in multiples of 10)
g2 = 190 (minimum rpm of combustion fat at highest heat setting, displayed in multiple of 10)
g3 = 40 (bandwidth of combustion fan in 5 OF RELATIVE MINIMUM)
L1 = .8 (minimum airflow in 1/10/m/s
L2 = 12 (air flow value in 1/10/m/s at which regular operation resumes)
SS = .9 ?
S6 = 3.3 ?
R5 = 1 ?
R6 = 120 ?
N5 = 5 ?
Z5 = 1.2 ?
A5 = 21 ?
G5 = 150 ?
G6 = 250 ?
G7 = 40 ?
L5 = 8 ?
L6 = 40 ?

Thats all I can access.. Everything is set per factory manual.

The problem is definitely getting worse, the stove malfunctions within several hours of startup...

Thanks

Ed

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

When was the last time you cleaned the blades on your combustion fan and the cavity it sits in?

imacman · Dec 31, 2009

SmokeyTheBear said:
When was the last time you cleaned the blades on your combustion fan and the cavity it sits in?

Smokey, see post #9 above.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

Ed,

I downloaded and skimmed through the manual.

Damn auto reset limit switches.

2. OVERHEATING
If the stove overheats, an excess temperature switch (Hi-Limit) will shut-off the stove fuel feed.
After the stove has cooled down, the stove defaults back to the original control program. However, heating only
continues if there are embers in the burn pot. If the stove does not re-ignite when fuel is fed again, then the
shut-down process (cleaning, after-running phase) is carried out.

You might want to have your convection fan checked. If it has problems it will lead to overheating.

All of your motors have sealed bearings, but as I found out that doesn't mean they don't lose lubrication, all it takes is a blown seal. I'm on my second combustion blower because the first one had a blown seal and my third convection blower because its lubricant was being evaporated off due to being to close to the firebox. The factory provided a blower adapter that set the blower several inches further back and lower than its original position.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

Ok, macman, that takes care of the cavity but those blades are important as well.

I also noticed that the software had parameters dealing with air flow through the combustion fan that determines the operating mode of the stove. How they are measuring that they don't say. I'm just looking for things that would affect air flow.

imacman · Dec 31, 2009

SmokeyTheBear said:
Ok, macman, that takes care of the cavity but those blades are important as well.......

Yep, I agree 100%.....I just figured that since he took it out, he must have scraped/brushed the vanes.......or not.

I just did the 1 ton (actually waited until 1.4 tons) clean today.....all the blowers out, auger motor & auger out, vacuum entire stove, etc, etc. The build-up on the comb. vanes wasn't terrible, but after cleaning them and re-assembling the stove, I had to lower heat setting on stove from 7 to 5.....NICE!

I'm on a learning curve with the "new" Englander 10-cpm.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

macman said:
SmokeyTheBear said:

Ok, macman, that takes care of the cavity but those blades are important as well.......

Click to expand...

Yep, I agree 100%.....I just figured that since he took it out, he must have scraped/brushed the vanes.......or not.

I just did the 1 ton (actually waited until 1.4 tons) clean today.....all the blowers out, auger motor & auger out, vacuum entire stove, etc, etc. The build-up on the comb. vanes wasn't terrible, but after cleaning them and re-assembling the stove, I had to lower heat setting on stove from 7 to 5.....NICE!

I'm on a learning curve with the "new" Englander 10-cpm.

I hear you on the learning curve. Still there on mine and I've had it for over a year, last night was the first night I ran the stove above 2, I didn't trust it so I was up every couple of hours checking the burn pot. I was just trying to see if it would both handle the load and not do something crazy like thermal off or pile up.

I've got to get some more gasket material and do the combustion blower in another week.

teetah222 · Dec 31, 2009

:smirk: You're worried about running at 2? I set my EP 25 at 1 (heat, 2 or 3 fan) all the time, unless it's really cold. Funny how temps and areas change things.

SmokeyTheBear · Dec 31, 2009

Haubera said:
:smirk: You're worried about running at 2? I set my EP 25 at 1 (heat, 2 or 3 fan) all the time, unless it's really cold. Funny how temps and areas change things.

Not at 2, above 2, it's a long story and not really related to this thread with the exception of the possible over temperature shut down.

Hot_h20 · Dec 31, 2009

The problem is definitely getting worse, the stove malfunctions within several hours of startup…

This does not point towards a board failure. Most electrical faults are immediate, rather than gradually getting worse.(Although you did say the initial problem happened suddenly)

Why hasn't the dealer just installed a board from the shop to see if the problem goes away? The cost to them would be time only, and you would be much happier being able to rule something out. Squeeky Rika gets the grease, so to speak.

jumpinin · Dec 31, 2009

Did you pull the combustion motor? If so - you would have had to replace the gasket - there is no way to salvage the old one in one piece. When I cleaned my Integra in the spring the combustion motor was cruddeded pretty bad with a fair amount of ash built up in the housing. Can you spin the combustion motor freely by hand from the outside? Do the fins feel as if they are scraping the housing? Another thing to check - on my unit the motor cabling was tie-wrapped rather tightly causing strain on all associated connectors going to the mother board. Take your brightest flashlight and carefully inspect all of those push-on connections. I know its a long shot but when we first got our stove - I mistakenly plugged it into a switched outlet - kids would run by switch and toggle it - poof - stove shuts down intermittently - took me a couple of times to figure that one out.

pelletfan · Dec 31, 2009

I'm late in my 2cents postings but will try to see if I can help.
I would start with having a clean stove as this is the issue of most stoves not working properly

As I can read from your post you did normal cleaning positures like heat exchanger cleaning and Ash removal.
The most important part like the big cleaning leaves a couple of questions open.
The integra has to be cleaned on the left side (Motorhousing - exhaust) as well on the right side.

Motor housing:
take the motor off and vacuum the pipes quite well and clean also the propeller of motor. Oiling is not needed as everthing is sealed.
see attached picture for illustration.

7 degrees & windy in New England, Austroflamm Integra II fills house with smoke (again)..

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