PE Summit Insert outside air problem

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ribs1

Member
Sep 1, 2009
59
Michigan
www.cponsite.net
OK,
I had my PE Summit insert installed a few months ago. The installer jammed some insulation between the surround and the fireplace and it seems I have a pretty good seal there. However, I notice a lot of cold air coming in from under the insert.
Does it need to be sealed underneath too in order to prevent outside air spilling into the room?

My fireplace is cut stone and seems pretty rough. It does have a standard ash cleanout in the bottom that goes down to the basement and there is a pipe coming in from outside that feeds the cleanout. This is why I chose to use the outside air option.

Should I just give up on outside air? Or is there a better way to seal my insert.
Thanks
 
OK,
Here's a picture.
PC300004.jpg


The inside of the fireplace is flat, about an inch below the level of that stone. I am thinking of placing firebricks in the fireplace that the insert will rest out giving me a more level surface and better seal.
I am wondering if I can do this myself and if it is a good idea. Should I just remove the surround, lift the insert and set firebricks underneath? Or should I call my installer back?
Thanks
 
Just get some door gasket rope and put it under the insert to fill the gap.
 
Sounds like a half ass outside air kit.
Make him come back and do the proper hook up to the back of the insert.
 
From page 9:

Combustion Air
Consult local building codes regarding combustion air supply.
Intake or combustion air can be supplied to the Insert
in one of two ways:
1) Outside air supply: Remove cover from ash clean out
in existing fireplace. Place a rodent screen in place of
the cover. Install the Insert as described in the "Installation"
section, making sure not to cover the opening of
the air inlet. When installation is complete, seal surround
to fireplace and anywhere else air may enter. This will
ensure combustion air is drawn from outside the house
and into the 9" x 2" intake at the lower rear of the appliance


I think that in most cases, an OAK is just gonna allow air to be drawn into the house, and only if the stove is being run wide open, will it possibly be of positive value.

I believe the stove casings around the burning chamber are just too leaky to prevent the outside air from entering the house. Also, I would check where the outside air source is located, it may be on the windy side of the house and therefor be pressurized to a small degree.

Or D/C the OAK and plug it with insulation.
 
Plug & seal that cleanout, punch out the 4" knock out in the left casing side, and let it draw the air from the room. No more cold air.
No matter how well you think that surround & floor is sealed, your going to get cold outside air blowing/drafting into the room.
The casing is not air tight, so even if you seal the surround & bottom good, its going to get in through & around the casing, which will vent into the room through the right & left grilles.
 
Hogwildz said:
Plug & seal that cleanout, punch out the 4" knock out in the left casing side, and let it draw the air from the room. No more cold air.
No matter how well you think that surround & floor is sealed, your going to get cold outside air blowing/drafting into the room.
The casing is not air tight, so even if you seal the surround & bottom good, its going to get in through & around the casing, which will vent into the room through the right & left grilles.

I think this is exactly what I plan on doing.
I am not sure if I can do this myself or not as I will probably have to pull the whole thing out to do this.
I think I am officially giving up on outside air for this thing.
Thanks
 
ribs1 said:
Hogwildz said:
Plug & seal that cleanout, punch out the 4" knock out in the left casing side, and let it draw the air from the room. No more cold air.
No matter how well you think that surround & floor is sealed, your going to get cold outside air blowing/drafting into the room.
The casing is not air tight, so even if you seal the surround & bottom good, its going to get in through & around the casing, which will vent into the room through the right & left grilles.

I think this is exactly what I plan on doing.
I am not sure if I can do this myself or not as I will probably have to pull the whole thing out to do this.
I think I am officially giving up on outside air for this thing.
Thanks

Should not be hard to seal off. Seal the other end of the pipe, that way you wont need to move the insert.. If you take the surround off, then the left grille, you can prolly get to the knock out on the left casing side.
Then just put the grille back in, the surround back on, done deal.
 
I wouldn't give up on the OAK. I'd seal up the gap a bit underneath. What's wrong with a bit of fresh air coming in by the insert. There has to be enough heat from the insert to warm up the air. The house needs air and if you seal up the OAK, you will just have cold drafts somewhere else. If you get too much cold air coming in when there's no fire in the stove, install a positive shutoff into the line. That's what I did with my stove.
 
Hogwildz said:
ribs1 said:
Hogwildz said:
Plug & seal that cleanout, punch out the 4" knock out in the left casing side, and let it draw the air from the room. No more cold air.
No matter how well you think that surround & floor is sealed, your going to get cold outside air blowing/drafting into the room.
The casing is not air tight, so even if you seal the surround & bottom good, its going to get in through & around the casing, which will vent into the room through the right & left grilles.

I think this is exactly what I plan on doing.
I am not sure if I can do this myself or not as I will probably have to pull the whole thing out to do this.
I think I am officially giving up on outside air for this thing.
Thanks

Should not be hard to seal off. Seal the other end of the pipe, that way you wont need to move the insert.. If you take the surround off, then the left grille, you can prolly get to the knock out on the left casing side.
Then just put the grille back in, the surround back on, done deal.

OK Man,
Thanks for the tips. I didn't realize I could knock out the plug without pulling or lifting the unit.
I will probably get to work on this tomorrow.

I don't think this particular unit was ever actually made to use the OAK. I think it is only an option to satisfy some code requirements in washington and canada or something.

BTW, ALOT of cold air blows in my living room underneath this thing. It is especially noticeable when not running.
 
i put a flexible aluminum cloths dryer type of pipe.then behind the insert were all the air gets drawn in i squeezed the pipe into there and put insulation around it to seal it.if i put my hand on the pipe outside i can feel the air getting drawn in.
 
did they seal off the damper when they ran the pipe up thru?
 
Summit makes a good point. A block off plate would also help. Although I think it will help more to keep the heating into the room, rather than going up the sides of the liner and radiating to the outside.
I think if you do both, you will notice a difference. in heat to the room, and lack of cold air from the prior AOK set up. There is an ongoing debate on AOK's. I honestly believe in some instances, they may help, but in others, they are a waste of time & money. You can always unplug the AOK later on if you feel you really need it. As far as it sucking cold air into the house from elsewhere. I do not have an AOK and have no cold draft issues in the home. It may be pulling from the basement in my case. I stand by my view, that the amount of air actually pulled by the insert, is minimal, and I don't even notice it. Especially when the air is set low. Fins what works best for you.
I myself, would block the AOK to see if that is indeed your cold air issue from under the stove, by how you describe it, it sounds like it is. And also put a block off plate up in the old damper area, that will help keep the now hotter air around the stove, just that around the stove to keep it warmer & out into the room also, rather than up and out through the masonry if thats what your liner runs up.
I don't remember reading, but the insert is hooked to a full length liner to the top correct?
 
Yes my insert is hooked to a full length liner all the way up the chimney. It is flex pipe and I had the guy insulate it.

I now wish I had the guy install a block off plate as I think this is probably a job that I couldn't do myself.
Maybe I will have my chimney sweep do if for me when I have her our for my spring cleaning.
 
Since it appears that the OAK is not sealed tight to the stove, if it were closed off, the stove would simply draw room air through the same gap that the cold air is infiltrating. In that case it would be a very easy job to cut into the OAK duct below the stove and install a positive shutoff. Then you could open it when you're burning and close it when you're not.
 
ribs1 said:
summit said:
did they seal off the damper when they ran the pipe up thru?
No, just a cap on the top of the chimney.
That then could be another source of cold air entering when the stove is cold and warm air escaping when the stove is hot.
 
OK,
Job is mostly done. I jammed some fiberglass insulation in the vent from outside the house, then put a 2x4 in the rectangular opening. Hope that is good enough. I don't feel any more cold air coming in from under the insert.

I will probably have my chimney sweep install a block off plate for me when she comes in the spring.
 
ribs1 said:
OK,
Job is mostly done. I jammed some fiberglass insulation in the vent from outside the house, then put a 2x4 in the rectangular opening. Hope that is good enough. I don't feel any more cold air coming in from under the insert.

I will probably have my chimney sweep install a block off plate for me when she comes in the spring.

Don't forget to knock out the 4" knock out on the left casing side (facing the stove).
 
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