Does anyone have or use one of these double-action log splitters like the NT Powerhorse or the Split Fire? I am thinking about getting one but am not convinced there is a real increase in productivity
Dual Wedge Log Splitters
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LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
I don't have or use one but have been using a single action for years. Cycle time and length of rounds would be the biggest factor. Wood species the second.
I very seldom ever run the ram all the way out. The Ash that I split generally pops within the first inch of contact so it's way faster to retract the ram a couple of inches than it would be to advance it far enough to fit the next round on the other side. Also, I often put back together the split round, turn it a quarter turn, and resplit it. That wouldn't work very well with a double action.
I very seldom ever run the ram all the way out. The Ash that I split generally pops within the first inch of contact so it's way faster to retract the ram a couple of inches than it would be to advance it far enough to fit the next round on the other side. Also, I often put back together the split round, turn it a quarter turn, and resplit it. That wouldn't work very well with a double action.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Also, single action splitters have an auto return detent so you can start the return and go get your next round. The double action you would have to stay and hold the lever to make room for the next round.
The second stroke, in the cylinder pull direction, would have considerably less force than the push direction, but would be faster. I think that would be great in wood that has to be split first in the push direction, then quartered on the return, which takes less force anyway. But I wonder about getting out of synch and starting a big new round in the pull direction....
I would like to read of actual expereince with them, how is the force/speed tradeoff?
I would like to read of actual expereince with them, how is the force/speed tradeoff?
I don't think it has any less power when retracting than it does when extending. Its the same pump, same valve, same pressure against the same diameter piston; mine is no slower in reverse than it is when splitting either.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Sorry, but you're wrong. The dfference is fairly well known.Kong said:
Here is a calculator that you can run your own numbers through.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm#calc
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
No experience with the double action . . . but I was curious so I watched a video . . . and came to the conclusion that there probably wouldn't be all that much of a gain in productivity in my own case. Like LL said, many times I just go part way and then retract if the wood splits cleanly . . . plus I'm a bit curious how these splitters do on knotty or crotchety wood. Finally, this sounds a lot like the woodsplitter the Amish own . . . and they had some problems splitting the sugar maple they recently cut up from a neighbor . . . whereas my splitter worked fine (of course I have no idea what tonnage their splitter is rated at.)
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Ja, I watched both the Powerhorse and the Split-Fire videos. The Powerhorse which looks to be discontinued now, has too short of a beam for my liking. The Split-Fire has the option of extra long beam and with it, one could work both sides with short strokes. If I had someone bringing me the wood and could spend all my time at the splitter then sure, there could be some quick work done but since I work alone, the ram auto-returning as I get my next round works for me.
From watching the videos, it is apparent that work tables are needed to keep the splits from dropping to the ground.
From watching the videos, it is apparent that work tables are needed to keep the splits from dropping to the ground.
I used a split fire last weekend a friend rented it .
It was a good unit and much faster then my 27 ton mtd but new cost 3500 bucks .
I have a super split that splits 2.5 times faster then the split fire .
I split and pile large rounds with the 27 ton MDT and split 1/4erd rounds withe the supper split .
We can split 15 cord in 8 hours if we are humping 3 splitting 2 stacking . John
It was a good unit and much faster then my 27 ton mtd but new cost 3500 bucks .
I have a super split that splits 2.5 times faster then the split fire .
I split and pile large rounds with the 27 ton MDT and split 1/4erd rounds withe the supper split .
We can split 15 cord in 8 hours if we are humping 3 splitting 2 stacking . John
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
That adds up to 40 man hours for 15 cord or 2.66 man hours per cord. Considering the number of man hours to get the wood to where you can split it, and the man hours to deliver it to the customer, you're not getting rich quick.wellbuilt home said:
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Not really, there is a difference, namely the diameter of the piston rod, which only sticks out on one side of the cylinder - This makes the volume of fluid that needs to be pumped per inch of piston travel less on the return stroke than on the extend stroke. Bottom line, the return stroke is slightly faster, but not as powerful as the extend stroke. The difference is not huge, unless you have very accurate timing, you probably wouldn't be able to see it by eye.Kong said:
Gooserider
richfl said:
I use it on the Norstar 37 ton below....its easily removable when doing verticals or if you dont want the splits too small.
It does speed up the process, but I havent timed it.....I go back and forth and it was included with the purchase of the unit...
Go to Northern tool for a demo video of it in action
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Me thinks you missed the question. This thread is about splitters that split in both directions like a double-bit axe., pushing and pulling, not about 4-way wedges.Ducati996 said:
Like this pic.
http://www.split-fire.com/images/photogallery/255.jpg
basod
Minister of Fire
I bought the Powerhorse DaulSplitter 20ton model 2 months ago. I don't have any complaints, the blade is less of a wedge and simply shears off knots or any twists. The log tables are nice and solid, when splitting smaller stuff I pickup 2 rounds and have plenty of room to reposition logs. I haven't noticed any difference in the power/speed in either direction. My true opinion of those high tonnage units (having rented some) is they may have big cylinders for area*force= tonnage, but unless coupled to a high flow pump they are extremely slow. The only downside I can see with the dual split setups is the lack of going vertical, which I'd only want to do on some massive heavy rounds. I don't typically get into anything over 20" diameter which is easy enough to lift off my trailer. It's personal preference vertical/horizontal, those that think you're doing more work lifting are sort of correct, unless you get a sore back from stooping over manipulating logs in the vertical position. Overall I'm extremely satisfied with the Dualsplitter, powerhorse engine sips gas, starts on first pull etc. I did add a piece of pipe on the log frame to prevent splits from falling onto the gas tank (i think all are in this risk in horizontal mode). The speed of the ram is extremely quick and pump seems to cycle to HP gear for maybe an inch or so of even the knottiest rounds, and unless your using it for full 25" sticks theres no need to actually cycle past where your next peice will fit on the opposite side. it was $1083 with shipping and all, next closest price for the flimsy looking MTD at lowes/tractor supply was over $1300+tax.
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