New to Pellet Stoves and need HELP

Welcome. I am not familiar with your stove, but it sounds like you do not have enough combution air. Read your manual, and it should tell you how to set your stove damper for more air. Don't open too much, or you will trade black, for brown sticky, which is hard to get off.

Does your manual discuss how to properly set the damper?

You appear to have a classic case of an incorrectly set damper, dirty stove syndrome (not likely if brand new), combustion air bypassing your burn pot, air leaks that impact the combustion blowers ability to pull enough air through the burn pot, or a "weak" or failing combustion blower.

Your first stop is to make certain that the damper is properly set.

Ok, THIRD revision:

Hi, Mike!

Is the NPS45 equipped with a damper? I just read the section of the owner's manual that discusses controls and settings, and I see no reference to a damper.

MikeCD said:

Thanks

This is the link to the manual, not very detailed information.

The control panel is shown on page 29 (section 8.5)
Page 30 has the adjustments and control instructions...



Which one of these would be the "damper", is it what the manuel is referring to as "Fan Trim"
Should I be adjusting the air up or down?
Should the feed rate also be adjusted?


Please excuse me ignorance on this, like I said I am new to pellet stoves.

http://www.napoleonfireplace.com/Tech/installation_manuals/NPS45_NPI45.pdf

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I didn't see ANY mention of damper adjustments in that manual so your stove must have an 'automatic' damper that adjusts itself depending on what settings the stove is running on.

I'd "trim" the combustion fan speed... hold the auger buttom down and push the fan speed up one notch... see if that helps.

Your dealer should be the one helping you out with this... we are always glad to help but the guy selling the stove should help you as best he can.

MikeCD said:

I do not believe that there is an adjustable damper

I plan to try different fan trim settings to see if this helps

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As Krooser mentioned above, you DID call the dealer and asked about these issues, correct? You've only had the stove for a week...the dealer should be the 1st place to call.

We are always willing to help, but as you said, the manual leaves a lot to be desired. Since the dealer sold it to you, I'm sure they know a LOT about how the stove works.

BTW, was the dealer the ones that installed the stove? Whoever it was is supposed to run the stove when the install is done, and explain all the operations of the stove.

Since there is no damper I'd go with E. below from your stoves manual.

The fan trim is indeed equivalent to a damper and coupled with the feed trim you should be able to get a bit of motion out of those pellets. The installer should have set that up for you.

A. Feed rate has been set to maximum for an extended period of time.
Turn feed rate down to feed #3 or #4.
B. The door, glass, or ash pan is open or has an air leak.
C. The burn pot requires cleaning.
D. The exhaust system requires cleaning.
E. The heater requires adjustment.
F. Poor pellet quality.

The decorative log should not impact the critical air flow in the stove, it will however provide a place for ash to pile up which may avalanche back into the burn pot causing issues (it depends upon where the log sits and the ash piles up).

MikeCD said:

I will be calling the dealer this afternoon. The store that I bought it from installed it. He ran it and went thru some features. The dealer was very good and gave me a good price (at least I think it was good). The dealer is new and he just opened up, I have been dealing with the owner direct, he previously delt more with gas stoves. I think the issue is more with the setting of the stove and not a problem with the stove or install.

the "Clinkers" and overflowing dont start until after a few hours of running. I had my wife adjust the fan trim ( I am at work) and she said the burn pot is about half full and the glass is not black. The stove has been running on low for about 2.5hrs and on medium for a about 2hrs.

I think the issue may be a combination of poor pellets and wrong "fan trim" setting, the only other thing I didnt not mention is that we had a decorative log kit in the stove. I removed that thinking that it may hinder the air flow in the stove, maybe I was just overthinking

How would an Outside Air Kit benefit me.

Thank you all for your help.

I will post pics as I see from reading other posts most people enjoy them.

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The fact that the dealer is new, and doesn't know much about pellet stoves may be a problem, but I guess you have to give him a chance first.

As for the burnpot overflowing on High, it's basically not getting enough air to burn all the pellets....if you want to burn on high, sounds like you'll have to raise air "trim" to max.

As for the decorative log set, that shouldn't make any difference, but they are a pain when you go to clean the stove. Most people don't bother even buying one, or if they do, they save it for the summertime to make the stove look "rustic" while it's not being used. Soon as heating season arrives, out comes the log set.

The OAK is another issue by itself. There are MANY opinions both ways whether they should be installed. Do a search, and you'll see it's been discussed OFTEN! My opinion is yes, install it.

Last thing....can you explain what your exhaust set-up is? Numbers of elbows, type (45,90 degree), length of pipes, horizontal or vertical, etc.

MikeCD said:

The stove has one 45 degree bend right away which leads directly into the wall and the maybe 3-4ft of straight pipe outside (angled down at the end) The pipe is 4in double wall.

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Please explain what you mean by angled down?

It is one thing to have a proper horizontal terminator on the end of the pipe that has an angled deflector that points down somewhat it is an entirely different matter to have the entire "horizontal" portion of the run to be angled downward. "Horizontal" runs are supposed to rise a bit for their entire run.

Ok, I just wanted to be certain that the run isn't going down hill with a drastic downward bend at the end as it doesn't help with moving the air through the system.

Most pile up issues are really air flow issues and there are about a zillion places for the air flow to get fouled up and only a little foul up leads to major pile ups.

You have the added complication in that your stove also uses the air flow to eject the ash from the burn pot, some stoves push the ash out of the way.

Mike, your install and your heating situation sounds identical to mine- corner install, short excursion direct vent exhaust pipe, 1200 sq ft or so older home. I have an OAK (outside air kit) and a previous generation stove, the NPS40. All of my controls are analog/manual.

Maybe it's my inexperience talking- this is only our second season with the stove- but the Napoleons seem to have different burn characteristics than other stoves. I'm working on the purely anecdotal notion but I wonder if it's a combination of the deep, round burn pot and the air flow that's used to eject the ashes. There seems to be a lot of variation in our flame volume over the burn cycle. Our pellets will burn down to almost nothing sometimes before the auger delivers a fresh batch of pellets to the pot. Also, as you mentioned, our pellets don't dance so much. They move around the pot a little but they aren't all that active. I honestly don't think I could get our pellets to "popcorn" or pop out of the pot- which can happen with some stoves if they are running on high- if I tried. Like I said, I wonder if it has to do with the round, deep burn pot.

Our burn ain't like their burn.

I read somewhere recently that the Napoleon NPS45, your model, has a "purge cycle" that pushes the ash out of the burn pot at start up, shut down and at 60 minute intervals while in operation. (I think I read this on the Napoleon site.) If so, you should not be getting much if any ash build up in your burn pot.

Last season we were heavily involved in a major home renovation, so if the Napoleon was putting out heat I was happy. This season I've driven everyone on this board to distraction trying to "optimize my burn." It's a good group here, very patient. (Trust me, I know!) So yeah, I'm still getting to know our Napoleon too- but I'm very happy with it.

Consult with your stove shop owner, send an email to Wolf Industries if need be! Wolf Industries makes Napoleon stoves and they have a contact form on the Napoleon Stoves web site. Plan to spend a little bit of time getting to know how your stove burns at various settings. Every brand is different, every model is different, each stove has its own personality and every installation is different.

Despair not! Be filled with joy! (seriously) Behold, you will get to know your stove, and you will love it! Glad tidings to all! etc etc and btw, Welcome! to a new Napoleon owner! (I'm pretty envious of that NPS45!)

Mike,
I have the NPS40 as beca and struggled with too much ash in the burn pot and dirty glass. I just skimmed through the manual for the NPS45 and did not see a "damper" area whatsoever. Going back to my stove issues with the ash, it was caused by having the damper closed thus not allowing air into the burn pot. Check with your installer.

Mikes stove has both an air trim and feed trim which should allow him to control his burn. The air trim is his draft or damper control. It should be a set and forget thing provided he sticks to a particular range of ash produced by the pellets he burns.

See jtakeman's postings on comparing pellets at: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42511/ for ballpark information on how some pellets burn in his stove.

Hi, Everybody!

Mike, we are a *little* compulsive about the stove. We clean our stove daily. We live in central Virginia so our late fall/early winter are rather temperate. Usually. Last November and this December were cold by our standards. At any rate, from October through December, most days it's not a big deal to shut it down for an hour to cool and clean. We vacuum out the burn pot, the fire box, the nooks and crannies. We scrape the heat exchange tubes (does the NPS45 have the built in scraper rake thingy?) after they've cooled. We empty the ash bin and wipe down the glass. If we're gonna cool it down enough to empty the burn pot, we might as well vacuum the box, scrape the tubes and dump the ashes. Cleaning the stove takes about 5 minutes.

The stove tech told us to always wait until the stove is completely cool before using the rake to scrape the heat exchangers. He said that the heat will cause the metal of the heat exchanger tubes to expand. The tech said that if you pull the scraper across the heat exchange tubes while the tubes are hot, the rake will get stuck at the other end of the tubes and cannot be pushed back. You'll be left with the pull rod sticking out in front of the stove.

From January through March we sorta hate to shut it down daily but we usually do, just because we like staying ahead of the curve. Last year we cleaned preemptively because of the renovation. Who knew what the next day would bring? So we'd shut the stove down daily and grab five minutes to clean it just in case the next day was full of renovation surprises! We've carried that habit into this season.

That being said, I feel sure that we could let the stove burn on feed 4, damper 3 for a solid two days without building up too much ash in the burn pot. At the end of 24 hours we barely have ash in the pot.

I'd not want to go more than three days without cleaning the stove, but that's me. A clean stove is a happy stove. Furthermore, the fly ash will coat the heat exchange tubes. If there's enough fly ash it begins to act as insulation (so I'm told) and the heat exchange tubes don't get as hot. This reduces the stove's heat output.

You'll know when your burn pot absolutely, positively needs to be emptied. Your flame will get lazy, big, orange and sooty. Your glass will collect black soot. We've experienced this phenomenon only when we were experimenting with low (more closed) damper settings. We prefer to run the stove hotter and cleaner, and we vacuum the stove long before we see the orange sooty lazy flame.

We have a manual damper, a pull rod, with a gradient of Lo 1 2 3 4 5, with 5 being the most open. Our stove delivers good heat out of the heat exchange tubes into the house at feed 4, damper 2. It seems happiest, very little ash collected in the burn pot, light brown/gray ash on the glass, at feed 4, damper 3. I've not yet experimented with damper settings 4 and 5 other than during start up. I've been hesitant to run at damper settings 4 or 5 because I don't want to dump precious BTUs out of the exhaust vent.

Hope this helps; enjoy your new stove!