I have read some of the postings regarding purchasing non-gasifier boilers due to the much higher prices of the gasifiers. Which non-gasifier boiler would you recommend to purchase and why?
newguy08 said:I have read some of the postings regarding purchasing non-gasifier boilers due to the much higher prices of the gasifiers. Which non-gasifier boiler would you recommend to purchase and why?
Robby said:Also biased, but not sure which way.
I use a conventional boiler, Harman SF360. I also have 1400 gallons storage. I use dry wood, 20% or less dry. Chimney stays completely clean. Just had a insurance company inspection, he stated he had never seen a chimney that clean. I think it is more inefficient than most assume, I also know it is mostly because of the storage. Very little smoke, because wood is dry and because draft can be set for cleanest burn (again because of storage). If you notice the gassers also are only efficient using storage.
Be aware, Harman great stove, company provides absolutly no help in any form, dealers (in my area) are "maybe" slightly better.
I would be happy to provide any data, if I can, you want.
Robby
If you are talking about the purchase of a new boiler I don't think it pays to buy a non gasser as you can get an Atmos for about the same price as mentioned by another poster. You can get lots of used conventional boilers off Ebay Craigslist etc. You might be able to minimize the creosote by running them into storage & you would have an inexpensive system. They will use more wood though. Your risk of a chimney fire is about non existant with a gasser, this and the lower fuel consumption is why I bought my Atmos, Randynewguy08 said:I have read some of the postings regarding purchasing non-gasifier boilers due to the much higher prices of the gasifiers. Which non-gasifier boiler would you recommend to purchase and why?
mikeyny said:I have an old tarm 1982, underburn, no creosote problems, no storage, just a big house with undersized boiler that runs hot most of the time. Even in the warm season when it idles (smolders) I have not had any creosote. Most of the time I burn good wood or I mix in the not so good wood on to the top of the load.
Piker, without stealing new guys thread, hopefully, could you tell me if when my tank is almost up to temp all around would it be considered idling a gasser to put in 3 large rounds that won't burn very hot even though draft settings remain the same. The flue gas temps will still stay above 300 though. Thanks, RandyPiker said:I just want to point out that chimney fires are still a concern with gassers that are installed without heat storage... the level of concern is obviously dependent upon each individual installation of course.
Generally speaking, in the quest to balance burn time with efficiency on non-heat storage setups, folks tend to lean toward bigger boilers with bigger fireboxes and longer burn times. This scenario lends itself to a fair amount of idle time and generous amounts of the flakey variety of creosote in the stack and heat exchanger... especially if there is a barometric check installed where cool air can mix with the smoke during idle. I am not saying that running a gasser without storage can't be done... it's certainly a viable option, and one that I have first hand experience with... but I am saying that depending upon circumstances and operation technique, creosote production can be an issue.
Creosote is pretty much non-existent on gassers with properly installed and operated heat storage systems.
I am a huge proponent of gasification. That having been said, it's not necessarily for everyone. The justification of the expense depends on the commitment of the individual to a lifestyle of heating with solid fuel. True, there are some inexpensive gassers out there... not saying they are bad, but you generally get what you pay for in performance, reliablility, and longevity... the market sees to that. An extra $2 or $3k for a gasser over a conventional boiler may not seem like much to those of us commited to burning wood for a lifetime... but to someone who perhaps wants to burn wood just "once in a while," or maybe just doesn't have an extra $2 or $3K to lay out... well, you understand. Different strokes for different folks... it's what makes the world go 'round.
Cheers
Singed Eyebrows said:Piker, without stealing new guys thread, hopefully, could you tell me if when my tank is almost up to temp all around would it be considered idling a gasser to put in 3 large rounds that won't burn very hot even though draft settings remain the same. The flue gas temps will still stay above 300 though. Thanks, RandyPiker said:I just want to point out that chimney fires are still a concern with gassers that are installed without heat storage... the level of concern is obviously dependent upon each individual installation of course.
Generally speaking, in the quest to balance burn time with efficiency on non-heat storage setups, folks tend to lean toward bigger boilers with bigger fireboxes and longer burn times. This scenario lends itself to a fair amount of idle time and generous amounts of the flakey variety of creosote in the stack and heat exchanger... especially if there is a barometric check installed where cool air can mix with the smoke during idle. I am not saying that running a gasser without storage can't be done... it's certainly a viable option, and one that I have first hand experience with... but I am saying that depending upon circumstances and operation technique, creosote production can be an issue.
Creosote is pretty much non-existent on gassers with properly installed and operated heat storage systems.
I am a huge proponent of gasification. That having been said, it's not necessarily for everyone. The justification of the expense depends on the commitment of the individual to a lifestyle of heating with solid fuel. True, there are some inexpensive gassers out there... not saying they are bad, but you generally get what you pay for in performance, reliablility, and longevity... the market sees to that. An extra $2 or $3k for a gasser over a conventional boiler may not seem like much to those of us commited to burning wood for a lifetime... but to someone who perhaps wants to burn wood just "once in a while," or maybe just doesn't have an extra $2 or $3K to lay out... well, you understand. Different strokes for different folks... it's what makes the world go 'round.
Cheers
Singed Eyebrows said:Piker; The draft is taken in through a Samson flap, so yes in that sense the draft is variable, the fan speed is not. The draft is variable to water temp though & I'm not sure if this helps much. Thanks, Randy
If you look on either UK or Germany Ebay you will see that gassers are not cheap there also. As Nofossil said gassers are deceptively simple, there is a lot of R&D in these. You can buy an Atmos 32S from Connecticut Green Heat for $3541.00, about $500.00 more than a cast iron conventional boiler & it's a bargain in my opinion. Thats not to say that China won't step up to the plate & make a $2000.00 gasser. I don't believe that boilers like the Tarm etc are going to drop drastically in price. Good luck with your search, Randynewguy08 said:So it appears that the gasifiers are the choice of most. I did not see many replies listing non-gasifiers. Let me ask another question then, since the gasification boilers are still fairly new the the USA, would anybody dare to say that the pricing will soon come down to a reasonable amount? As with any new product, time appears to have an effect on pricing as well as demand. I have noticed a few advertised gassers listed around the $5k level. but most well above $8k before you include the install costs.
newguy08 said:So it appears that the gasifiers are the choice of most. I did not see many replies listing non-gasifiers. Let me ask another question then, since the gasification boilers are still fairly new the the USA, would anybody dare to say that the pricing will soon come down to a reasonable amount? As with any new product, time appears to have an effect on pricing as well as demand. I have noticed a few advertised gassers listed around the $5k level. but most well above $8k before you include the install costs.
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