Any reason for a ton of soot?

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

SuperStang83

New Member
Nov 2, 2009
19
SE Pa
How are you all doing this winter?

For the last 2 months I have burnt a ton of Fireside Ultras and they seemed to do well for me, but did have a lot of ash. Just recently my Dad bought me a ton of Energex American, and they have a ton of soot everywhere! The size of the pellets is all over the place, some are 1/4" and others seem to be 1 1/2" and maybe even slightly larger. I try to break the large ones down, but I'm sure that I don't catch them all. The big problem that I am having with them though is that there is a ton of soot now. I am not really sure if it is clinkers or not, but the Firesides never had build-up like this. In the burn pot both sides are filled with this thick soot looking stuff, and the "brick" wall is almost all covered by it too. It goes all the way up the "brick" and surrounds the where the pellets drop, and is about 3/4" thick.

I want to shut the stove off and clean everything out real well, but we are having a problem with our furnace and the HVAC is in the middle of replacing it. So shutting down the stove isn't really an option until tomorrow night or Thursday. Does anyone have any good ideas as to what is going on? If it matters at all my stove is a USSC 6039. Thank you for any help.

I will try and post pics once I turn the stove off!

Jacob
 
Superstang83 said:
....my Dad bought me a ton of Energex American, and they have a ton of soot everywhere! ..........The big problem that I am having with them though is that there is a ton of soot now. I am not really sure if it is clinkers or not, but the Firesides never had build-up like this. ...........It goes all the way up the "brick" and surrounds the where the pellets drop, and is about 3/4" thick.................

3/4" THICK soot????? YIKES! :bug:

My first thoughts are that the changeover to the Energex and the soot showing-up may be just a coincidence. You've burned a ton of pellets....did you do a complete stove cleaning after that? And I don't mean vacuuming the firebox, burn pot, and emptying the ashpan...I mean a COMPLETE cleaning.....blowers removed & cleaned, vent pipe cleaned, ash traps cleaned, etc, etc.

Usually, black soot means not enough burn air, which is usually from a dirty stove.
 
Ya, not enough air. Clean as he said, and also check with the pellet supplier and see if there are any additives in the pellets, ie binding agents such as parrafin. That may be contributing somehow to the incomplete combustion.
 
I think it is the pellets .I have one brand that no mater how much air I use they burn black .I do nothing just switch to lignetics and it burns clean .
 
macman said:
Superstang83 said:
....my Dad bought me a ton of Energex American, and they have a ton of soot everywhere! ..........The big problem that I am having with them though is that there is a ton of soot now. I am not really sure if it is clinkers or not, but the Firesides never had build-up like this. ...........It goes all the way up the "brick" and surrounds the where the pellets drop, and is about 3/4" thick.................

3/4" THICK soot????? YIKES! :bug:

My first thoughts are that the changeover to the Energex and the soot showing-up may be just a coincidence. You've burned a ton of pellets....did you do a complete stove cleaning after that? And I don't mean vacuuming the firebox, burn pot, and emptying the ashpan...I mean a COMPLETE cleaning.....blowers removed & cleaned, vent pipe cleaned, ash traps cleaned, etc, etc.

Usually, black soot means not enough burn air, which is usually from a dirty stove.


I cleaned the stove out, but apparently not well enough. I just bought the house about 4 months ago, and the stove was here and I don't think it was cleaned that well. As soon as the HVAC gets this furnace put in, I am going to shut down the pellet stove and clean it as best as I can.

What is the easiest way to get to the blower motor? I have had the sides of the stove off before, but wasn't sure where the blower motor was, or that I had to clean it.

This soot is hanging from the "brick" and then falling down into the burn pot, and it looks terrible!!


Jacob
 
I am not familiar with your stove, but there will be either 2 blowers or 1 "combi" blower. Either way, the exhaust is power vented, which means it is blown out of the stove by a blower. Look at the back of the stove where the vent attaches to the stove, that is the exhaust blower it attaches to. Disconnect the vent from the blower (there may be some sort of stove adapter, or a pipe clamp or a bolt on flange) and pull the stove forward, to disconnect the vent from the blower. Get a manual for the stove and it will probably tell you how to properly clean it. Be sure to also clean the venting from start to finish ( I have had many times been called to find out why the stove won't run after cleaning only to find the homeowner has cleaned the venting only from the tee to the roof, neglecting the section of pipe that goes thru the wall to the stove).
Follow the cleaning instructions in the manual, and you will be a pro in no time!
 
Thank you Mr Fixit. I have tried pulling the stove away from the venting before to clean it out, but that didn't work. I ended up sticking my shop-vac hose in through the outside and it cleaned it well, but that doesn't help me get to the blower. Is there any other way to get to the blower because the angles that the vents are makes it very difficult to take the two apart? Thank you again.

Jacob
 
Jacob, you DO have the owners manual, right? If not, it can be downloaded at the US Stove site:

www.usstove.com/Downloads/6039 rev B.pdf

Second, it may help us if you could take some pics of the stove & vent pipe set up.....especially at the rear where the pipe attaches to the stove exhaust outlet. That might help us figure out why you can't get the stove away from the pipe.
 
Stang,

I have the 6039 insert. Same stove really. Before you go nuts and hate to over simplify but be sure the 2 plates to the left and right behind burn pot are closed. Is the damper pulled out at least an inch ?Also be sure the 2 bottom clean outs are completely closed. Any of these plates being open will cause poor combustion and soot. Be sure the burn pot holes are clear. If you still have a problem the combustion blower is on the right side, looking from the front. Remove the outside panel, mine are screws w/ 5/16" hex head. Comb blower is right there can't miss it. 2 wires can't remember colors think blue and black. 5 or 6 nuts hold blower on. BE CAREFUL WITH THE GASKET. US Stoves have no listing in the manual. They sent me the gaskets and they want you to remove the whole housing. I chose not to do that. Gasket survived first cleaning and I made new one the second time. If you have some hi temp gasket paper its not to bad. If your careful original gasket will be ok. Take blower outside and clean with compressed air if you have it. If not vacuum it and the housing and reassemble. Its pretty easy, Takes maybe 30-45 minutes. Let us know how you made out.

Schoondog
 
schoondog said:
.....Take blower outside and clean with compressed air if you have it. If not vacuum it and the housing and reassemble.

Best way to clean blower vanes is to use a wire brush and gently brush the carbon off. Then use a thin flexible putty knife w/ about a 1 1/2" wide blade & go under the vanes & scrape the carbon off the motor mounting plate too.....THEN do the compressed air on that & through the motor air holes.

Hey, I'm anal about this stuff.....a clean motor & fan is a happy motor & fan....LOL.
 
Use the search feature here and type in "leafblower trick"... use that and takes Mac's advice and your stove will run like new.
 
Thanks for all your help. Schoondog and macman I'll give that a shot tonight as soon as the HVAC guys gets this furnace done and the stove cools down. Everything else that you mentioned seems to be fine schoondog.

krooser, I have looked into the leafblower trick and it looks awesome, but I don't have the extra cash right now to get a leafblower, and probably won't for a little while. Thank you for all your help. I'll take pics tonight and try and post them and give this stove a good cleaning. Thanks again.


Jacob
 
This is while the stove was shutting down, and all the "soot on the firewall was about 3/4" thick and would periodically fall off.
DSC06126.jpg


What is all the "soot stuff" in the corners of the burn pot? Everytime that I would look in on the fire they would be there. There was a lot at times, and other times there wasn't as much.
DSC06127.jpg


You can see where all the "soot" was but it has fallen down.
DSC06128.jpg


Sorry for the mess, but this is how the stove vents into the wall.
DSC06131.jpg


Some of these Energex American pellets are huge. I found these four after digging around at the top of the hopper for 20 seconds or so.
DSC06129.jpg
 
Stang, I wish you had taken a pic of the stove burnpot while it was running "normally". Hard to tell what's going on seeing just the tail end of the shutdown. I admit it is a lot of soot stuck on the brick, but doesn't look 3/4" thick (3/4" is like the width of your thumb).

With all the ash in the corners, it really looks like you don't have good airflow through the burnpot to blow all the ash out......I'll go back to what I said in the beginning of this thread....dirty stove and/or pipe.

You need to remove the brick, vacuum everything you can, scrape the burn pot, open the ash traps to the area behind the back wall of the firebox, bang on it with a small hammer to loosen the crud that may be lurking back there and vacuum out, clean the heat exchanger, remove the blowers and clean completely, and last but not least, get the pipe cleaned out completely somehow.

Also, make sure the door gasket is sealing tightly....do the "dollar bill" test on it.
 
Sounds good macman, I'll definitely take your advice and do all those things. The fire was actually going very well for 3 days, but as soon as I threw the EA pellets in that is when it started getting all the soot. I threw the EA pellets in right on top of the Firesides, and kept the same settings, but as soon as the EA pellets started getting in there is when all the soot began. Believe it or not, the soot was actually thicker than my thumb at times, but when I took the pic some had fallen off and it was still over 1/2" near the bottom. You can see the brown outline on the brick of all the place the soot had built up. Thank you again, I'll give it a good cleaning.


Jacob
 
Jacob, to be honest, I have never seen ash stick to the back wall of a stove like yours does....weird. Is the brick straight up and down, or leaning backward slightly?
 
LOL, it is straight up and down. I am taking the side panels off the stove now and there are two blowers. One is at the back for the exhaust and the other is near the control panel. Do I remove and clean both of these? The one near the control panel doesn't actually look that bad. The fire was actually burning real well, so I don't think that combustion was a problem.

Although about 4-5 of the bags out of the ton have heavy moisture in the bags, but I am not going to use those bags. I am going to try and return them.
 
Superstang83 said:
LOL, it is straight up and down. I am taking the side panels off the stove now and there are two blowers. One is at the back for the exhaust and the other is near the control panel. Do I remove and clean both of these? The one near the control panel doesn't actually look that bad. The fire was actually burning real well, so I don't think that combustion was a problem.

Although about 4-5 of the bags out of the ton have heavy moisture in the bags, but I am not going to use those bags. I am going to try and return them.

Hey, you have access to the blowers, you might as well keep going and clean them real well....then you'll know their NOT the problem.

Remove the combustion (exhaust) blower carefully, and try to not rip the gasket. Scrape/wirebrush as much of the fins/vanes as you can of soot, plus under them on the motor plate with a flexible putty knife. The room air (convection) blower (the one near the control panel) just needs to be vacuumed of the dust on the fins, and 'maybe' has lubrication points on the motor (or not).

If you have ANY feeling that other bags of pellets are wet, return them....they will really screw-up the stove.
 
I might be a little late on this thread but does your stove have an adjustable draft control ? I burned energex for 5 years when I had a Jamestown, after I switched to a local brand I found the draft had to be adjusted of it wouldn't burn right. eventually you'll get to know all the nuances of your device. I agree bwith everyone else, clean it like crazy and get a good wire brush kit and maintain the clean. Definitely an air issue by the sounds of it. The good thing is you have access to lots of experience here, so some one will figure it out.
 
When I took the sides off I noticed that the 1 1/2" or 2" vent coming in from the back had fallen off on the inside of the stove. I don't know if this matters or if it is affecting what is going on or not.

stephen, I do have an adjustable draft control, and have played with it quite a bit, but the fire seems like it was burning really well. It was burning just as well as the firesides.

Yeah I am going to return the wet pellets. They seem like a big mess. They are all dried out and just crumble everywhere.

Where is the heat exchanger?

I am heading to bed now, and am about to run the stove, I'll chime back in tomorrow and let everyone know how their advice worked out for me. Thank you very much everyone!!!


Jacob
 
Here is a pic of the stove when I first started it up last night.
DSC06132.jpg


Here is a pic 7 hours later when I woke up this morning. Fire looks great, the glass is a little hazy, but the downstairs was a warm 77 °F . That's my Az dog, she can't handle the Pa weather!
DSC06143.jpg


Here is this morning after the stove has been running for 7 hours. The glass door is open in this pic and you can see some buildup of ash on the brick, but nothing like it was before I did all that cleaning.
DSC06144.jpg
 
Stang, the stove seems to be burning pretty well in those pics. Some haze on the glass is normal....not much you can do about it.....sometimes different pellets will have more/less affect on this, and it happens more at lower heat settings.

As for your question about the heat exchanger, it should be directly above the firebox, behind the holes that blow the hot air into the room. It doesn't look like you have a "scraper" on that stove, so my best guess is that you have to get up in there w/ a wirebrush. When you look up above the firepot, do you see round tubes? If so, those are your heat exchanger tubes, and they have to be kept as clean as you can.

The Astoria I had, and other stoves too, had a rod attached to a scraper plate that cleaned these off......you were supposed to do it at least once a day. On a regular clean, I'd also wirebrush the tubes as much as i could.....this is where the heat gets transferred from flame to air, so they have to be pretty clean for max. efficiency.
 
let's talk about why there's not wall plate on that outlet there? To the right of the stove. Hope you don't have kids. :p
 
IceNine said:
let's talk about why there's not wall plate on that outlet there? To the right of the stove. Hope you don't have kids. :p

You might want to take a closer look IceNine that looks like a brass plate to me
 
Status
Not open for further replies.