Unable to damp down??! HELP!

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

Hi Guys.
Been noticing this problem the last couple of days, I load up my jotul F 500 with a decent bed of coals, then I "try" to damp it down but instead of doing so the temperature continues to climb. Needless to say this is making me very uncomfortable, do you guys have any idea why this would be happening. Do the Gaskets need to be replaced every year, this is only my second season with this stove plus I dont burn 24/7 everyday. I usually burn every night and on the weekends I keep it going constantly.
The only thing that I have done to the stove that would maybe explain this is that I uncrewed the bolt that holds the little damping lever & then put it back on. It seems like it can only go back on in one of two ways, it either threads back on in such a way that it allows it to slide easily or it threads back on a little tighter but then it does not slide back and forth with much ease. I opted for the latter which is the way it operated originally.
I was under the impression (correctly or incorrectly you guys tell me) that if you damped down all the way you would effectively cut off the oxigen supply and theby smother/suppress the fire? Would cracks also account for the uncontrolable nature of the stove at this point in time?
Thanks in advanced.

(this thing just continues to climb but I cant control it, not good!) :ahhh:

Update: fire peaked at about 650 then quickly dropped to safe levels.
Have to step out for a bit, will be back later this afternoon.

DAKSY · Jan 10, 2010

Do the Gaskets need to be replaced every year, this is only my second season with this stove plus I dont burn 24/7 everyday. I usually burn every night and on the weekends I keep it going constantly.

Didja try the dollar bill test? What did you find?
Are your gaskets still pliable?
Are they all there?
Is the ash door tightly sealed?

The only thing that I have done to the stove that would maybe explain this is that I uncrewed the bolt that holds the little damping lever & then put it back on. It seems like it can only go back on in one of two ways, it either threads back on in such a way that it allows it to slide easily or it threads back on a little tighter but then it does not slide back and forth with much ease. I opted for the latter which is the way it operated originall

Talk to your dealer. Jotul subcontracted the manufacture of the air control levers & they were bent to the wrong configuration.
It will be replaced under warranty.

I was under the impression (correctly or incorrectly you guys tell me) that if you damped down all the way you would effectively cut off the oxigen supply and theby smother/suppress the fire?

Not true with the new Clean Burn (CB) stoves. You can damp em down 80% max.

Would cracks also account for the uncontrolable nature of the stove at this point in time?

You got cracks already? In TWO years? Have you over-fired?
That would definitely add more air to the mix & minimize control of the burn...

savageactor7 · Jan 10, 2010

And both doors are closed tight? Huh! It could just be a temporary weather related phenomena ...

...if not and it does continue you may have to lock it down the old fashioned way.

sandie · Jan 10, 2010

Is it a damper that also controls your air or do you have another controller for air? Cracks can be a problem of course and the gaskets should be tight. Now with that said, on my stove I have a damper that is either open or closed not inbetween but also have what they call a thermostat but really is a flap that you set an opening so mattering where you leave it how hot it will continue to get after shutting the damper and it will try to keep it at a constant by automatically opening and closing to keep a constant temp. Of course what occurs is that it stays at a temp for a while and due to the wood burning down it slowly goes down in temp so like to hold it at 450-500 and when it goes to still flames but at about 350 I add new wood, leave the damper open til it goes to 500 and then close the damper leaving the "themostat" fully open for a few minutes and then put it so it will hold 450 or so degrees.
Wherever air leaks in will make your stove hard to control. Just my beginner thougths.

LLigetfa · Jan 10, 2010

Deep Fryer said:
Do the Gaskets need to be replaced every year...

So you replaced the gasket once already? Does the door have adjustments at the hinge and latch to compensate for gasket wear?

Have you changed how you're loading the stove? Pulling the coals forward and placing much of the wood behind rather than all of it on top of the coals could make a difference.

Do you have dryer wood than before? It could be that you have too much zipper air. There are several people here that have modified their zipper air (yours truly included) to get better control of the fire.

begreen · Jan 10, 2010

The first thing to check to to make sure that there isn't a bunch of ash build up behind the ashpan. Get in there with a poker and a flashlight to be sure. Excess buildup will push the pan forward and prevents the ashpan door from sealing tightly.

Then again, could be that the coal bed needs to be burned down a little more together with stronger draft due to the cold weather?

Note that 650 is not an unusually high temp for this stove. That is completely within normal operating temps, especially with a full load of wood on a hot coal bed. This could be normal secondary combustion.

skytow · Jan 10, 2010

Your Oslo acts exactly like mine! First year with it I was always looking for leaks and checking gaskets. After a while, and based on comments here, I figured out that its just the way it is. If I put a full load of splits on top of a thick bed of coals she will quickly head for 600+ unless I really damp down and even then it will be 500 really quick.

Now I expect it and try to keep between 550 and 650 on a real hot reload and then damp down as needed for a longer burn.

This is all compounded by a tall chimney. I have a 32 ft interior located masonry chimney with a full SS flexible liner to the top. It really retains heat and drafts ALL the time.

How tall is your chimney / strong is your draft?

Best,

JD

buffygirl · Jan 10, 2010

Deep Fryer -- that's the new EPA stove for you -- you can't shut it up - it has secondary air intake --it scared us 3-4 times before we understood how it burns -- Although, we did have an issue with the ashpan door - do the dollar bill test and see if it is shutting properly. I was shutting ours and latching it down --assuming if it latched, it was shut -- but technician found that you have to lift it a bit and then latch the handle down - made all the difference in the world. That almost run away flame is called by others- the bowels of hell --and it's hard to get used to. Do a search on the Jotul oslo and you will get tons of info from experienced burners.
Hang in there.

Buffygirl
New Oslo in Fall 09

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

Hi Guys & Gals, thank you for all your sugestions, I'll address some of them now.
I would also like to ask if someone could explain the Dollar bill test in detail as I have heard this being alluded to in the past but never fully explained.
Here goes...

DAKSY said:
Didja try the dollar bill test? What did you find?
Are your gaskets still pliable? Yes, very much so, they look fine actually.
Are they all there? Yes
Is the ash door tightly sealed? AbsolutelyTalk to your dealer. Jotul subcontracted the manufacture of the air control levers & they were bent to the wrong configuration.
It will be replaced under warranty. Thank you, I'll look into that.
Not true with the new Clean Burn (CB) stoves. You can damp em down 80% max. Thats interesting.

Would cracks also account for the uncontrolable nature of the stove at this point in time?

You got cracks already? I'm not sure, are they easily identifiable if present, and I would think, if at all, on the sealant there are none in the actual cast iron itself.,
Have you over-fired? On my second "break in" burn it shot up to 600 but that is it. That would definitely add more air to the mix & minimize control of the burn...

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

savageactor7 said:
And both doors are closed tight? Huh! It could just be a temporary weather related phenomena ...

Yes, all doors are tightly closed.

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

sandie said:
Is it a damper that also controls your air or do you have another controller for air? Just the damper on the unit, no other air controls.
on my stove I have a damper that is either open or closed not inbetween but also have what they call a thermostat but really is a flap that you set an opening so mattering where you leave it how hot it will continue to get after shutting the damper and it will try to keep it at a constant by automatically opening and closing to keep a constant temp. Wherever air leaks in will make your stove hard to control. Just my beginner thougths. I know what you mean, I sometimes feel like the damper is either open or closed with no in betweens. I keep a pretty close eye but do feel like it is hard to control, by now I would have thought that I could just load it, set the damper to a certain position and get fairly similar results most of the time, keeping in mind different wood species of course but that is not the case.

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

LLigetfa said:
Deep Fryer said:

Do the Gaskets need to be replaced every year...

Click to expand...

So you replaced the gasket once already? Does the door have adjustments at the hinge and latch to compensate for gasket wear?Have you changed how you're loading the stove? Pulling the coals forward and placing much of the wood behind rather than all of it on top of the coals could make a difference.
Do you have dryer wood than before? It could be that you have too much zipper air. There are several people here that have modified their zipper air (yours truly included) to get better control of the fire.

I have not replaced the gaskets as they appear fine to me, I was just wondering if it is common practice to change them every year. The door I think has adjustments, but its pretty tight right now, I have to really lean on it to close it so I dont think its too loose.
I have not changed how I load the stove, I usually just rake inside to sift the ash into the pan, get a nice pile in the middle and load on top. I have hear it mentioned and suggested here to push the coals to the front but I have not come across this suggestion accompanied with an explanation. I would think that if I push the coals forward they would burn up quicker as they would be exposed to more oxigen coming in at the front of the unit and the wood would take longer to get going, this is just my uneducated guess. What is the advantage/result of having the coals in the fore as opposed to stacking wood right on top of them.
What exactly is Zipper air & how do you modify it and what are the benefits to the modification?

Have not come across this term here before.

BeGreen said:
make sure that there isn't a bunch of ash build up behind the ashpan. Yes sir, always do, I keep this puppy very clean.
could be that the coal bed needs to be burned down a little more together with stronger draft due to the cold weather?
Never thought of that, did not know that having too many coals could be a bad thing, will keep it in mind.
Note that 650 is not an unusually high temp for this stove. That is completely within normal operating temps, especially with a full load of wood on a hot coal bed. This could be normal secondary combustion. That is very interesting, I thought that anything over 600 on any stove was too hot or as the thermometer says "overburn" which has negative connotations to it.

buffygirl said:
Deep Fryer -- that's the new EPA stove for you -- you can't shut it up :lol: :lol: - it has secondary air intake --it scared us 3-4 times before we understood how it burns -- That almost run away flame is called by others- the bowels of hell --and it's hard to get used to. Do a search on the Jotul oslo and you will get tons of info from experienced burners. Hang in there.
Buffygirl
New Oslo in Fall 09

I thought I had a little more time left before I encountered the Bowels of Hell, seems a little premature

LLigetfa · Jan 10, 2010

The zipper air is often called the doghouse because of its shape on some stoves. I'm not familair with your stove so I don't know the exact shape, size, or number of zipper outlets at the front of the stove. The zipper fans the coals with a blast of uncontrolled air and on some stoves with exceptional draft or really dry wood, it tends to make the fire run away.

The point of raking the coals forward is two fold. 1st, it helps to burn down the coals and 2nd, it makes the fire a little more controlled because it burns somewhat front-to-back instead of entirely bottom-up.

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

buffygirl said:
Deep Fryer -- that's the new EPA stove for you -- you can't shut it up :lol: :lol: - it has secondary air intake --it scared us 3-4 times before we understood how it burns -- Although, we did have an issue with the ashpan door - do the dollar bill test and see if it is shutting properly. I was shutting ours and latching it down --assuming if it latched, it was shut -- but technician found that you have to lift it a bit and then latch the handle down - made all the difference in the world. That almost run away flame is called by others- the bowels of hell --and it's hard to get used to. Do a search on the Jotul oslo and you will get tons of info from experienced burners. Hang in there.
Buffygirl
New Oslo in Fall 09

I thought I had a little more time left before I encountered the Bowels of Hell, seems a little premature

Deep Fryer · Jan 10, 2010

LLigetfa said:
The zipper air is often called the doghouse because of its shape on some stoves. I'm not familair with your stove so I don't know the exact shape, size, or number of zipper outlets at the front of the stove. The zipper fans the coals with a blast of uncontrolled air and on some stoves with exceptional draft or really dry wood, it tends to make the fire run away.

The point of raking the coals forward is two fold. 1st, it helps to burn down the coals and 2nd, it makes the fire a little more controlled because it burns somewhat front-to-back instead of entirely bottom-up.

Thank you for the explanations sir, that certainly helps clarify things in my head, I will give it a shot later on tonight.
I'm burning steady at 475 right now and the beast is behaving itself, dont have a lot of coals in it so we will see how it does later.

My chimney run is probably about 20' +- with a liner.

Thanks again and excuse my multiple posts, was having a little trouble doing multiple quotes on one post :red:

begreen · Jan 11, 2010

The thermometer ranges are for when it is used on a single-wall flue pipe. In most cases, they are not applicable to stove top temperatures. Your stove could hit 750 and not blink. 450-650 °F stovetop is a normal operating range for the F500.

Deep Fryer · Jan 11, 2010

Good Morning BeGreen!
The temperatures I was stating were stovetop temps, sorry, I should have elaborated. I had it running last night without the dreaded Bowels of Hell syndrome coming into play. Cranked it up to 600 this morning. damped it down and within 5-7 mins it dropped to 500.

I think I know what happened yesterday, when I saw it climb past the 650 mark I hit the handler for the air vent pretty hard and the air valve plate (which lays flat as it slides open or shut) inside actually jumped up off its track a bit and in the process was not completely shut so quite a bit of air was still feeding the monster. I realized this as I was playing with it last night and noticed there was an added click when I moved the lever toward the open position from the supposed shut position and you could visually see that there was an air flow that was immediately interrupted when I did this. I also employed the coals in front concept and had a gorgeous mass of coals there this morning waiting for me.

Thank you all so much for all your advice in helping me resolve this problem, that was a little funky, never had that happen before.
I guess I have to re-adjust that bolt I messed with, is there anything in the market that can be applied to the air valve plate to help it glide a little bit more smoothly that can tolerate high temps?? Lithium grease?.

Will post some progress reports in the next few days.

Be well & keep warm! ;-)

szmaine · Jan 11, 2010

Graphite powder.

LLigetfa · Jan 11, 2010

Pam cooking spray.

Deep Fryer · Jan 11, 2010

Thanks Guys! :cheese:

firefighterjake · Jan 19, 2010

szmaine said:
Graphite powder.

+1 . . . cheap and easy fix . . . and more importantly you'll wonder why you didn't use the graphite powder a long time before since the lever will glide as if it was on ice. Very slick. The only negative is you'll need to reapply the graphite in a month or two.

Deep Fryer · Jan 21, 2010

Make that +2 Jake, I got a little tube of it and I agree wholeheartedly, that puppy glides so nice and smooth now, what a difference, I absolutely love it !!!

Thank you for the tip szmaine.

A quick update:
Everything is working real nice now, re-adjusted the damping lever & have not had any problems with the Bowels from Hell Syndrome rearing its ugly little head.
I got an infrared thermometer today and have noticed that the readings that I was getting from the stove top thermometers (and the one that really freaked me out) was off by about 70+_ degrees (this would be the Rutland). I also have a Condar and that was the most accurate of the two, maybe 5-10 degrees off from what the infrared read (which is pretty good I think).

Thanks again everyone, cant tell you how much I really appreciate all your help and suggestions.

Unable to damp down??! HELP!

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