Watch the fire Charlie not the thermometer!

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ckarotka

Minister of Fire
Sep 21, 2009
641
Northwest PA on the lake
New stove and all the fun that comes with learning to run it. I had one problem that was quickly diagnosed by the ESW guys and the fix was not too hard. It seemed that guy who put it in "me" didn't seal all the joints in the black pipe creating a pressure problem. Fire's were hard to control "all or nothing". That problem is now fixed.

So I figure let's start to try to load a bit bigger. Well that worked out no overfire but the magnet thermo doesn't respond to fast changing temps of the stove top. So the stove is actually cooler or hotter than fire in side. Trying to set the primary based on a slow thermo was hell on the ego.

This load I watched the fire not the thermo. Got a good fire from coals and waiting and watched the fire. Turned down the air in steps when I thought the fire could handle itself. Got her settled in with about 1/4 to 3/8 of adjustment left. Let it sit for a few minutes and bingo, checked the thermo and cruising around 550-575, right where I wanted to end up.

On a side note, I only need one stove now, this baby heats what I would normally use a second stove to heat. A couple of strategically placed fans and I've got the stove room to 74 and the living room (most used) to 67 and climbs with every reload. Bedrooms get to about 70 for the kids mine and the misses about 62 which is what we like. So far I get around 4-5hr burn, better than the 2-3 I was getting. Once I get more comfortable I will really pack her full and should have no trouble getting 6 from her.
2000ft ranch and about 23F outside right now.
 
It's nice when you get it all dialed in properly. Good advice to watch the fire and then check the temps to confirm that it's burning correctly.
 
ckarotka said:
Fire's were hard to control "all or nothing". That problem is now fixed.

Can you explain that? Would the stove only burn with the air all open? Or would the fire only burn out of control or not at all? I have an NC30 and when it gets in the low 20's outside I have a hell of a time keeping the the stove top under 750. I frequently have to let it burn for an hour or so with the primary air fully closed with the temp that high and it concerns me that I might be running it too hot for too long a time. After that, I have to open it up about a quarter to a half inch for the rest of the burn or else it cools down a bit and loses the secondaries. I wouldn't think that improperly sealed joints in the stove pipe would make it burn so darn well with the primary fully closed, but I've thought wrong before :(
 
I posted too soon, still have that problem!!

The fire would be well established so I would close it down until the secondaries would roll nicely, then poof it's out, I open the air a bit, nothing, open 1/4" more and regain secondaries, then it gets too hot, close primary all the way and she keeps going until most of the fuel is gone and like you have to pull the lever out enough to gain a flame back. I am doing something very wrong because right now all I do is babysit the stove for the fisrt 1.5 hrs of the burn and by then it's burnt so hot there's only 1.5-2.5 hrs left. And I'm scared to really load her up. All this takes place with about 1/2 to 5/8 full loads. I feel if I really load her up it's going to end very very bad.

The guys from ESW said that I have a pressure problem. I'm still unclear exactly how the unsealed pipe would make a difference also. But I did have some good gaps at the joints where the seams were offset. I also plugged the doghouse/zipper/tertiary air inlet. This made getting a fire from a cold start take a little longer and the temps would climb slower with less uncontrolled air coming in but the problem still exists.

I still have the EXACT same problem as you described also except mine, being smaller, runs at 650-700 with the primary fully closed for a while.
 
How quickly are you closing the air supply? If I have a well established burn and suddenly go from wide open to half or less I can lose the burn - aspecially if it is packed tight. But if I go in stages, it stays dead on where I want it. Once I get to the cruising temp I want, I close it about a half inch every 2-3 minutes. I know the manual recommends closing the aire supply in smaller stages, not big jumps.
 
I shut it down in stages also. As the fire gets hotter I close the air a little. I never lose the secondaries until the last 1/4-3/8 of lever left. At this time the top is at 550-600. If I don't close it that last little bit it starts climbing out of my control, it doesn't just go to like 600 it goes right past that to 700 then stops with primary closed at around 600. It seems like the air/fuel ratio is very touchy and I can't either get the timing right or there is another problem with the system.

Wood is dry I been using a mix of hardwood from 18-24%. Split size about 4"x4". Typically two of those one a bit larger and one smaller is what I've been trying to load to keep one of the variables as constant as I can. outside air temp around 20-25, light breeze with a 17-18' chimney straight up. Chimney is clean just checked.

I'm ready for a load in about 30min so if anyone has a suggestion I'm all ears.
 
Especially if 4 hours is the longest you can get out of that stove, a pipe damper is probably a good idea. on a 3.0+ CF firebox you should get 8 hour burns with a full load no problem (if your wood is good, and it sounds like it's perfect)
 
Secondaries will quit on you like that when the wood is a bit too wet. That is my vote.
 
What you are having isn't a "pressure" problem, but a draft problem. Somewhat related to pressure, but let me explain:

Ideally, your flu will draw enough air thru the stove when the primary air control is closed to continue combustion. If for some reason draft isn't ideal - flue gas temp too cool (like turning it down to early, or damp wood), pressure in the house not balanced (dryer running, basement install in two story house, wind effects), blockage in flue (flue cap clogged), flue to short, liner downsized too small too many 90* turns in the pipe etc, then you won't be able to turn the air all the way down. So,technically a pressure problem, in that the flue isn't providing enough draft to create the negative pressure in the stove to draw enough air thru the secondaries to sustain combustion - but it's easier to think in terms of draft.

Do you get the same performance issue after running the stove at the hotter end of your operating range for a longer period of time? Last year, given my wood quality and uninsulated liner, it wouldn't let me close the air all the way until after I had completely warmed the chimney to give the best draft conditions.

hope this helps.
 
Well after reading all the replies and one more call to ESW and another load of wood, I've come to the conclusion the problem is ME ME ME ME!
The draft is fine, I have no trouble with smoke or starting the fire, plus this is the second stove with this set up and the first ran just fine just too small.
The wood is dry I checked every piece before loading to rule that out.
The splits were average size and mix of hard and soft wood.

The load I just got started a couple of hours ago is burning fine 525-550 top flue at 300 (IR gun) here's what I did

After the normal fighting the thermo and looking at the fire (about 30min) I got to a point where there was just a small amount of flame (where I would normally open up the primary a bit) and walked away!!
The stove was a little cooler than what I wanted 500 but I went to the basement and did some clean up 20-25min. Came up to check it and was criusing 550 and the flue was 325.

For right now I'm chalking this up to the operator's patience level is 0. The stove is bigger than my last one and reacts alot different even though they are both newer EPA stoves. The larger loads require more time to settle and get established and I'm used to quick immediate responses with the small stove.

So for now I'm just gonna let it burn, and stop back seat driving it. Good news is through all this the furnace is still not running and we are warm, oh and no overfires, close but no cigar.
 
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