Wood stove recommendations

Hello all, been lurking here for awhile and decided to post today with my first project.

The propane bills are killing me. Just filled up for the SECOND time this winter, he left with a $1,700 check . . . price has gone from $1.39/gal to $2.19/gal since November. I'll have this tank burned through by end of February.

First a little background. House is approx 4,800sqft, built in 1890 but has been added onto several times. There is a single 70,000BTU propane furnace to heat the entire place. Obviously that is grossly undersized for this much square footage. It pretty much runs 24/7 when it gets really cold out. The rear 1/2 of the house downstairs has pretty good pressure in the vents and it stays pretty warm. Front 1/2 of the house has almost no vent pressure, heat just barely seeps out and it's pretty chilly in there, maybe 15* cooler than the rest of the house.

We have a steel fireplace insert, pictures are attached. Unfortunately it doesn't do a very good job of heating the place. Honestly I think sometimes it makes the place colder due to the negative draft.

Wanting to replace this with a wood stove insert, something that can put out some serious BTU's and actually provide some decent heating capacity. I've called around a bit, and have been told by some that the existing fireplace can NOT be removed, and whatever insert I buy has to fit inside the existing fireplace. Others claim they can remove the old one entirely, and replace with a more efficient model. Prices have ranged from $3,500 to $5,000. The prices don't scare me much . . . I'm already paying $6,000 per year in propane, if I can reduce that by even 1/3 I'll have the new stove paid for in just a few winters.

Looking here for suggestions & advice. Pictures below. I appreciate any input and I'm open to any suggestions. Most local dealers I have spoken to (brands include Jotul, Buckstove, Lennox) have offered, based on my measurements, inserts rated at around 1,500sqft, that can fit inside the existing insert. I really want something with more heat output than that, minimum 2,000sqft rating, or more if possible. Something in the 50,000btu/hr range. Keep in mind no one has been on-site yet to check things out, all my dealings with local dealers has just been over the phone. I'm sure some opinions will change once they see my setup.

Corn/pellet stoves are out for me. I'm really only interested in woodburning units. I have a crapload of cord wood laying around right now, and plenty more to cut & split. We live in a rural area and have tons of access to free firewood, just takes a little elbow grease . . .

Here's the fireplace from the front. Doors measure 35" across, plus another 9" on each side for the blower vents. Insert is 23" high, 18" deep to the heat exchanger, if that could be removed you could get another 3" in depth. Entire wall this is installed in is done in flagstone (field stones)


Here's the inside of the firebox. Yes I know it's filthy we haven't had it swept in over a year. When we moved in, the rear wall was an accordion-style piece of metal, acted as the heat exchanger for the blower. It was rusted and full of holes, and blew smoke & ash into the room like crazy when we turned it on. I had a few people come out & take a look, none of them recognized the brand of fireplace or blower. One offered to fix it buy screwing on a piece of stainless steel and sealing up the edges with some high-temp putty. It works OK but the fans are weak and don't blow much air. Plus, with the additional piece of steel covering the exchanger it takes a heckuva fire to get it to put out much heat.

There is a pipe coming in from the right side, under the fire grate, running along the entire width of the firebox. I assume it is a propane lighter. There's a key on the wall to the right of the fireplace to turn it on. Doesn't work. Pretty sure the piping that used to fuel this is long gone.


Here's a pic up top towards the flu opening.


Another pic of the flu itself. Steel going up the chimney is 8" diameter.


Here's another pic angled up towards the side. Hard to see due to the lighting but the walls on either side have kindof a lip on the top, with another 2 1/2" or so clearance to the part that angles up towards the flu. These are the ducts attached to the blowers on either side.

LLigetfa said:

I'd pass on the idea of an insert into the existing fireplace. Rip it out and start over with a zero clearance and/or close it up and go with freestanding stoves. For 4500 sq ft you will want more than a 50,000 BTU unit. My RSF with a 3.1 cu ft box is rated to 50,000 BTU and at -40 it struggles to keep my modern well insulated 2200 sq ft home much above 72.

You cannot expect to run a wood stove at max BTU all the time. They are cyclical beasts so if you expect it to keep you warm you need to upsize. I'm thinking that a total of 150,000 BTU would do it, so that is two or three stoves.

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HAHA How I would love to have my house at 72 . . . heck at 15*F right now I have a hard time keeping above 68. I definitely don't expect any single stove to heat the whole place, only looking to supplement my existing furnace.

More than one stove is probably in my future. The floorplan of this house, however, doesn't lend itself very well to heat distribution. The original part of the house is where I plan to put this one, it has three large rooms downstairs with large doorways between them, and a large staircase leading upstairs to the bedrooms. I think heat should flow well from the "stove room" through that part of the house.

The rest of the downstairs is a hodge-podge of small rooms added-on over the years. Multiple levels (some are on concrete slab, some raised with crawlspace) and small doorways leading between them. I may add additional stove(s) in these areas later. The original part of the house is coldest right now, a bit drafty but I have done some work there to seal up air leaks. Mostly it's the poor vent pressure in that part that makes it so cold.

I got the wife talked into this one based on the hope that we'll be able to reduce the propane bill by something significant. Plus making the house more comfortable. When we woke up Christmas morning it was 55* in the house. Outside temp was around 20*F and the wind was blowing fierce. Opening presents with the kids downstairs was frigid. I think that made us both realize we really needed something to supplement the furnace in this house.

fredarm said:

What about an add-on wood furnace?

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Have considered that -- but I think the install cost would be too high. The ductwork is really, really cobbled up, would require some serious re-working to add a second forced air unit of any type. Plus they're ugly and I'd have to find a place to put it (no basement, crawlspace only).

BrowningBAR said:

Mortimer,

I live in a stone farmhouse built in 1741. Definitely NOT a tight house (though, it is getting better over the past 4 winters filled with caulking, insulation, more caulking, spay in expansion foam insulation, even more caulking...).

Old homes usually do not have an open layout (mine sure as hell doesn't) and it will require more than one stove (most likely three, if possible) due to the layout of the home. Also, if you have a lot of stone (walls, etc.), like I do, they have a tendency to hold onto the cold and it takes quite a lot of time to warm up the walls.

Post a diagram of your layout.

My layout is only 2,200 sq ft but will require 3 stoves to get whole house heating.

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Wow and I thought my place was old! Plenty of air infiltration here as well, I'm fighting them all the time. Most of the windows upstairs are the original single-pane counterweighted windows. Definitely on my list to replace this summer, as well as maybe blowing some more insulation up in the attic.

It would probably take me the better part of 2 days to draw up an accurate floorplan myself . . . I'm tellin' ya, it's downright wacky. Two floors, three separate staircases going up to the 2nd floor, weird little nooks & hallways everywhere. But as I said the original part of the house I think will work OK, just three large rooms with large entryways between them, including large open staircase leading upstairs, I assume the heat will tend to rise and get up to the bedrooms from there fairly well. This area probably represents half of my square footage, and is also the coldest part of the house.

I'm pretty sure this house was originally heated with just a single cast iron stove in the downstairs area, close to where I'll be replacing the insert. The original brick chimney is still there, but it has been sheetrocked over, leaving large "dead space" in the center of the house downstairs. It's a rather large area, maybe 4ft x 3ft, just a giant pillar in the center of the house. There could be a small masonry fireplace in there, or it could be solid brick and just has a stovepipe sticking out one side to hook in to a cast iron stove. Unfortunately at some point a previous owner decided that original brick chimney was no longer of any use and decided to knock off the top 3ft or so, and closed up the roof over it.

I've considered tearing down the sheetrock around the old brick chimney, maybe could extend it back up through the roof, then I could keep my fireplace for "ambiance" and just add a freestanding stove for heat. But there's alot of variables at play there and I'm not real crazy about tearing down all that sheetrock just to find out it's not usable. For all I know it's falling apart behind that sheetrock. I'm sure it is masonry all the way up to the top, so I would have to add a liner, and I'm not sure if the inside diameter is large enough for a 6" pipe to fit through.

I'm also pretty sure there's an old steel grate underneath the carpet in the floor upstairs right above that area, I could always tear into the ceiling downstairs to re-open that grate to help the heat get upstairs. Fortunately there is also a LARGE return air vent in the same room as the fireplace (maybe that was done on purpose?) so I could just turn the furnace on "fan only" and that will hopefully help move the heat around.

As for the rest of the house I'll cross that bridge later. It's been a long process rennovating/fixing up this place and I have to take baby steps

luv2burnwood said:

Not sure about your insulation condition of your home but your propane bills are OUTRAGEOUS!! I am heating 2600sq ft of living space and using gas to cook with and dry my clothes, heat water, we have yet to burn $ 1000.00 in propane a@ $ 2.69 a gallon since August. I setup my house with a condensing boiler that is 96% efficient and we have a Majestic I300 insert that we have been burning. I would look into a more efficient heating system then a wood boiler and after that a good insert and or stove.

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Yeah the furnace is definitely a big propane hog. During the summer, using propane just for hot water, cooking & drying clothes, 150 gallons will last all summer long. By my best guestimation, based on my propane furnace size & efficiency rating, BTU capacity of 1gal propane, I'm burning through about a gallon an hour, maybe a bit less, while the furnace is running.

I have a gentleman coming out tomorrow afternoon to actually check out my existing setup & give me some recommendations. Sounded pretty knowledgeable on the phone. Will keep you all posted with what he says.

fredarm said:

Ok, here's another thought. What about an EPA fireplace like a Fireplace Extrordinaire? See this thread:https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/49980/. You would have to rip out your existing fireplace, but it looks like that unit is no great loss.

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I'm definitely open to suggestions -- I guess I don't really understand what the difference is between a "stove insert" and a "fireplace insert." I know stove inserts produce far more heat with much less wood than a "traditional" steel insert, but I guess there are EPA-certified fireplace inserts that are equally efficient?

FLINT said:

wow, I really feel sorry for all you guys

the lows here have been in the single digits and highs in the 20s, and we've been trying to figure out how to run the wood stove so the warm half of the house will not get too much above 80 F. we had 94 one evening.

we even open up a few windows all the way some evenings to try to cool it down.

really big houses sound like a bear to heat. good luck!

do you use all of the house? would you consider moving? or is it a family home?

oh yeah, and to the guy who said his wood stove couldn't keep his 500 sq. ft. room warm - something must be wrong there.

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The next time I move it'll be to the grave . . . LOL

The wife and I are both kindof suckers for old houses. Love all the beautiful woodwork & architecture, this place is no exception. We've come to terms with the fact that when you live in a place that's 100+ yrs old there's something needing fixing pretty much all the time. It's a "labor of love"

We do have a family here, wife & I plus three kids. We really do love the place, not too far outside of town, we have some acreage so we raise chickens & grow a huge vegetable garden every year. Enough square footage for the kids to each have their own bedrooms & baths. Gotta love real estate prices here in the midwest.

What you have is exactly what I'm looking for -- I want the darn thing to chase me out of the room it's so hot!