Getting down to details--Fireview installation!!

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
scotsman

scotsman

Feeling the Heat
Hearth Supporter
Aug 6, 2008
453
West Texas
Went to Lowe's to get the hearth components. Was planning 3/4" CD ply, 1/2" cement board, just like WS recommends and then tile/grout job on top.

The thickest I found was 3 X 5 Durock in 7/16" and 3 X 5 Hardibacker in 3/8" (actually .42"). My plan is to tile and grout over the top of this combo with 1/4" ceramic floor tile. Any problems with using 3/8" Hardibacker between the 3/4" ply and the tile job? I don't like the looks of Durock (brittle, scaly and crumbly). HBoard is much neater, cleaner edges and looks like more quality. Suggestions??

Thanks--
 
Just got through installing the firebrick. They were TIGHT!!

Question: Do I need to install a couple of small pieces of angle iron running fore and aft to hold the wood up off the bottom of the stove? Seems logical. I figure 1/2 to 3/4 inch in two 5" pieces should do it. Any harm in that?

Also, will it hurt the combustor if there are nails in the wood as long as they don't contact it?

Thanks--
 
Texas boy said:
Went to Lowe's to get the hearth components. Was planning 3/4" CD ply, 1/2" cement board, just like WS recommends and then tile/grout job on top.

The thickest I found was 3 X 5 Durock in 7/16" and 3 X 5 Hardibacker in 3/8" (actually .42"). My plan is to tile and grout over the top of this combo with 1/4" ceramic floor tile. Any problems with using 3/8" Hardibacker between the 3/4" ply and the tile job? I don't like the looks of Durock (brittle, scaly and crumbly). HBoard is much neater, cleaner edges and looks like more quality. Suggestions??

Thanks--
Click to expand...

I would call Woodstock on this, but I'm not sure the 3/8" hardibacker provides the same R factor that durock does. I like hardibacker too, but I went with durock for my hearthpad to be safe. It won't make any difference aesthetically once you lay your tile down.
 
The Hardibacker contains a good deal of cellulose I think, though it looks a lot better. The trick to cutting the Durock or wonderboard is to score through the fabric on both sides and keep scoring, like maybe another 10 times. Your utility knife blade will be ruined, but the board will fall apart.

The tile under my FV is actually barely warm. the place it does get warm is in front of the stove where the floor can "see" inside the firebox (or the cat).
 
Texas boy said:
Just got through installing the firebrick. They were TIGHT!!

Question: Do I need to install a couple of small pieces of angle iron running fore and aft to hold the wood up off the bottom of the stove? Seems logical. I figure 1/2 to 3/4 inch in two 5" pieces should do it. Any harm in that?

Also, will it hurt the combustor if there are nails in the wood as long as they don't contact it?

Thanks--
Click to expand...

Most, if not all, of today's modern EPA stoves tell you NOT to use a grate or anything to elevate the fire: build it right on top of the fire brick.
 
As for the nails I have heard that galvanized nails will poison the combustor. To be safe I never burn any wood with nails (or paint) in my Fireview.
 
Texas boy said:
Question: Do I need to install a couple of small pieces of angle iron running fore and aft to hold the wood up off the bottom of the stove? Seems logical. I figure 1/2 to 3/4 inch in two 5" pieces should do it. Any harm in that?
Thanks--
Click to expand...

Don't do it. You don't need it to burn well and if nothing else it will take up space you need to put wood in the stove. I know it seems odd that you will place your wood directly on the floor of the stove - eventually on a 1" layer of ash and expect it to burn completely without air flowing under it, but it does very well. It has to do with the fact that the temperatures in the firebox are really that hot. I had to re-learn burning when I started building fires in a stove - it just isn't exactly the same as building fires outside or in a fireplace.
 
And once you get ash in the stove, always leave some. The manual you get with the stove explains it quite well. I know this is the first stove we've had like this but found it certainly is no problem, so don't try to improve on a good design. Just enjoy!
 
Backwoods Savage said:
And once you get ash in the stove, always leave some. The manual you get with the stove explains it quite well. I know this is the first stove we've had like this but found it certainly is no problem, so don't try to improve on a good design. Just enjoy!
Click to expand...


The Vigilant is the same way.
 
rickw said:
The Hardibacker contains a good deal of cellulose I think, though it looks a lot better. The trick to cutting the Durock or wonderboard is to score through the fabric on both sides and keep scoring, like maybe another 10 times. Your utility knife blade will be ruined, but the board will fall apart.

The tile under my FV is actually barely warm. the place it does get warm is in front of the stove where the floor can "see" inside the firebox (or the cat).
Click to expand...

I found R values here: http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm (Durock and Hardie Backer 500 look the same)

I found this on the Hardie Backer website:
 

Attachments

  • test.jpg
    test.jpg
    13.6 KB · Views: 335
Went back to Lowe's to get my components. I wound up getting two 3 x 5 pieces of 1/4" HardiBacker instead of one at .42" I had called Ron at WS and he said .50" is code so I went with the two pieces. I was so aggravated that they had 1/2" on the sign and then the package said .42" that I would not have bought it anyway. THEN I went looking for 3/4" plywood! Forget that! It's now 23/32" (instead of 24/32"). So I bought a sheet, after considering MDF (it's a full 3/4") but discarding that idea, had them cut me a 37 1/4" X 60" piece out of it and brought it all home. Also bought a stove pad 36" X 48" cause it was 15 bucks off!

So, now I plan to put it al together tomorrow. I assume I need to drill pilot holes through the cement board. Will a regular steel twist drill bit do it? I'll see if I can countersink the screw heads while I'm at it. The plan is to clamp the layers together, drill 'em and put it all together with deck screws. Is that what y'all use or is there some other way of doing it? Other than the looks, is there any reason I can't use the above arrangement for the rest of the burning season in complete safety?
 
I do not see any specs on the Woodstock site for how far the hearth needs to extend out in front of the stove. Anyone know this?
 
BrowningBAR said:
I do not see any specs on the Woodstock site for how far the hearth needs to extend out in front of the stove. Anyone know this?
Click to expand...

I think the manual says 8". Ours will be about 16" front, 8" non-loading side, 16" loading door side. The stove is 28" wide. If I'm missing something, jump in and warn me 'fore it's too late. I'll spend all night tonight going over the measurements and math in my mind while I'm trying to sleep! :gulp:
 
8" in front since the front glass is fixed and 16" on the side loading door.
 
Texas boy said:
BrowningBAR said:
I do not see any specs on the Woodstock site for how far the hearth needs to extend out in front of the stove. Anyone know this?
Click to expand...

I think the manual says 8". Ours will be about 16" front, 8" non-loading side, 16" loading door side. The stove is 28" wide. If I'm missing something, jump in and warn me 'fore it's too late. I'll spend all night tonight going over the measurements and math in my mind while I'm trying to sleep! :gulp:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm doing the heat shield so I can get it closer to the back wall.
 
I'm going to post this question here as it seems to fit.

This might sound like a dumb question, but, by putting the heat shield on the stove am I at all limiting the heating capacity of the stove? Will the heat redirect itself? Just wondering.
 
BrowningBAR said:
Texas boy said:
BrowningBAR said:
I do not see any specs on the Woodstock site for how far the hearth needs to extend out in front of the stove. Anyone know this?
Click to expand...

I think the manual says 8". Ours will be about 16" front, 8" non-loading side, 16" loading door side. The stove is 28" wide. If I'm missing something, jump in and warn me 'fore it's too late. I'll spend all night tonight going over the measurements and math in my mind while I'm trying to sleep! :gulp:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm doing the heat shield so I can get it closer to the back wall.
Click to expand...

Me, too! I'm buying two pieces of 1/8" steel having half the hole for the pipe cut out of each side and making a break in it to protect the mantel. Then I'm cutting a 1/2" deep grove in the 3/4" ply 1" from the wall for the steel to fit into. Then I'm having the whole thing powder coated to match or compliment the stove and mount it behind the stove. I did not buy the rear heat shield, but I should ba able to put the stove as close to the wall as I need to. BTW, the recommended 24 gauge steel is 1/40 of an inch. I had thought about 16 gauge (1/16"), but decided that was too light, so am going with 1/8". Ron says that should be way more than enough to protect the wall.

Does anybody know how much space should be between the surface of the stovepipe and the edge of the hole?
 
Todd said:
8" in front since the front glass is fixed and 16" on the side loading door.
Click to expand...

Hey, Todd, what about drilling the cement board. Will a regular steel twist drill bit do it? Think deck screws will be okay to put it together with even though I'm planning to tile it? Was kinda thinking about putting something between the two layers of Hardiboard, since I have the opportunity to go way overkill! Any suggestions?

I was also thinking about cutting 1/2" pieces of Sch 80 PVC pipe and putting them under the pad to give some air under the pad. What do you think?
 
This might sound like a dumb question, but, by putting the heat shield on the stove am I at all limiting the heating capacity of the stove? Will the heat redirect itself? Just wondering.
Click to expand...

The stove heat output won't be effected by the addition of a rear heat shield. That will only stop radiated heat at the rear of the stove.
 
Texas boy said:
Todd said:
8" in front since the front glass is fixed and 16" on the side loading door.
Click to expand...

Hey, Todd, what about drilling the cement board. Will a regular steel twist drill bit do it? Think deck screws will be okay to put it together with even though I'm planning to tile it? Was kinda thinking about putting something between the two layers of Hardiboard, since I have the opportunity to go way overkill! Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't know, never worked with the stuff. I'd call WS they have all the answers.
 
Texas boy said:
Me, too! I'm buying two pieces of 1/8" steel having half the hole for the pipe cut out of each side and making a break in it to protect the mantel. Then I'm cutting a 1/2" deep grove in the 3/4" ply 1" from the wall for the steel to fit into. Then I'm having the whole thing powder coated to match or compliment the stove and mount it behind the stove. I did not buy the rear heat shield, but I should ba able to put the stove as close to the wall as I need to. BTW, the recommended 24 gauge steel is 1/40 of an inch. I had thought about 16 gauge (1/16"), but decided that was too light, so am going with 1/8". Ron says that should be way more than enough to protect the wall.

Does anybody know how much space should be between the surface of the stovepipe and the edge of the hole?
Click to expand...

Somewhere in this I sense extraordinary overkill. But a diagram would really be helpful before making this call. As far as a heat shield goes, thicker metal does not make a better shield. However, plywood backing kills the clearance to combustibles, so a diagram of the intended shield would help here.

Also note, hardibacker is not true cement board. The choice 'underkilled' protection right there. Might as well stay the course.
 
BeGreen said:
Texas boy said:
Me, too! I'm buying two pieces of 1/8" steel having half the hole for the pipe cut out of each side and making a break in it to protect the mantel. Then I'm cutting a 1/2" deep grove in the 3/4" ply 1" from the wall for the steel to fit into. Then I'm having the whole thing powder coated to match or compliment the stove and mount it behind the stove. I did not buy the rear heat shield, but I should ba able to put the stove as close to the wall as I need to. BTW, the recommended 24 gauge steel is 1/40 of an inch. I had thought about 16 gauge (1/16"), but decided that was too light, so am going with 1/8". Ron says that should be way more than enough to protect the wall.

Does anybody know how much space should be between the surface of the stovepipe and the edge of the hole?
Click to expand...

Somewhere in this I sense extraordinary overkill. But a diagram would really be helpful before making this call. As far as a heat shield goes, thicker metal does not make a better shield. However, plywood backing kills the clearance to combustibles, so a diagram of the intended shield would help here.

Also note, hardibacker is not true cement board. The choice 'underkilled' protection right there. Might as well stay the course.
Click to expand...

I don't know how to do a diagram and get it on here. I'm just going by the diagram on the WS page--3/4" ply with 1/2" cement board on top and then the tile job. Do I need to take the Hardiboard back?
 
I built my hearth to Woodstock's specifications and I just used a power drill and bored decking screws right through the cement board through the sheetmetal and into the plywood.
 
There are two components here, the wall shield and the hearth. I don't think there will be a problem with the Hardiboard on the hearth when all that is required is ember protection. It is not true cement board approved for hearth installation, but in this case, it is just tile underlayment. The tile is the ember protection.

The wall shield plans are what concern me. This shouldn't have plywood backing at all, just the metal. With the proper 1" space at the bottom and top, 24 ga will work as well as 10ga. The air space is doing all the work.

Edit: see later comments. Wrong terms used. I think that this is not a wall shield, it is a fireplace surround seal.
 
BeGreen said:
There are two components here, the wall shield and the hearth. I don't think there will be a problem with the Hardiboard on the hearth when all that is required is ember protection. It is not true cement board approved for hearth installation, but in this case, it is just tile underlayment. The tile is the ember protection.

The wall shield plans are what concern me. This shouldn't have plywood backing at all, just the metal. With the proper 1" space at the bottom and top, 24 ga will work as well as 10ga. The air space is doing all the work.
Click to expand...

The wall shield is just metal with the 1" spacing, no backing of any sort. The bottom of which will fit into a 1/4" deep saw cut in the plywood base. My only question is how much larger should the hole be than the stovepipe to keep the powder coat from blistering/burning.

I was kinda playing around with the idea of putting a 1/2" piece of styrofoam between the two pieces of Hardibacker board. The kind that has the metal foil on it might be a good choice, too. Don't see any reason why not. Then again, maybe 3/4" plywood/HBoard/Styrofoam/24 gauge metal/HBoard/tile. Concerns??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Newbie planning new stove installation - does this seem reasonable?
Replies
5
Views
1K
The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces
EatenByLimestone
EatenByLimestone
M
Another question about Durock..... for Intrepid II
Replies
8
Views
313
Vermont Castings
begreen
begreen
EatenByLimestone
Laying tile
Replies
12
Views
452
DIY and General non-hearth advice
EbS-P
EbS-P
andrew777
Layering of Durarock and Micore300
Replies
4
Views
1K
The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces
begreen
begreen
N
Hearth guidance appreciated
Replies
1
Views
987
The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces
begreen
begreen
Top Bottom
Back