So, I had a little chimney fire tonight

Clodhopper · Jan 18, 2010

I put in a new stove about a month ago (Jotul Oslo) as well as a new stainless chimney and double wall stovepipe. This evening I had a little lapse in judgment and attention when I opened the side door to get the fire going a little better and got sidetracked. About ten minutes later a roaring sound got me re focused. The fire seemed to be primarily located in the double wall stovepipe, around the 45 degree elbow I have just below the main part of the chimney. I dampered the stove down to try reducing the available oxygen to the fire and it seemed to have burned itself out after about a minute or so (which seemed a lot longer). Nothing caught fire and everything seems to be alright, although it did produce a fair amount of smoke from what I am assuming was the paint on the stove pipe.

My question is, how do I determine if the stove pipe or chimney suffered any damage that would require replacement. The outside wall on the elbow in question did have the tin straightened out a little right on the outside point of the elbow, which I re crimped with a pair of needle nose pliers. It is cool to the touch while the rest of the DW is fairly hot, which would indicate to me that it is drawing more air than it should be. Any advice you have on how to check for damage or a better way to deal with a chimney fire would be appriciated.

Thanks
Pete

Green Energy · Jan 18, 2010

If the chimney liner is only one month old, it is unlikely that
you would have enough creosote buildup to cause a chimney fire.
Was there any other signs such as sparks coming out of the chimney?

pen · Jan 18, 2010

As far as I am aware, the only way to be really sure there are no faults / weaknesses is through a good visual inspection. Depending on your setup, this may be impossible for you and might be worth the couple of bux to call a sweep in (or maybe the local fire dept who would love a donation?) to drop a camera down and check things out.

In all, if it only lasted a few minutes, then most likely things are OK. However, you did operate the stove pipe at it's maximum so it all depends on what will help you to sleep the best at night.

BTW, I would find a reputable source for dry wood asap. Only explanations for having a chimney fire so soon into burning this new setup is by having wet wood or else a cool chimmey (cleanout missing or not tight).

Since you mention needing to leave the door open to get the fire going well, I would assume that wood isn't quite ready yet.

good luck

pen

Backwoods Savage · Jan 18, 2010

For that short of a period I would highly doubt any damage was done but for sure it needs checking and double checking.

If it were me, I would not burn any more of that wood !!!

! You are simply taking too much of a chance if you are getting that much creosote in that short of a time.

Would you burn dirty gas in your car and expect it to get you back and forth to work or to the store? I'd say your car would either not run or at least run very poorly. Burning wood before it is ready does the same thing to your stove. So one should get better fuel or at least wait until he can get better fuel before burning that stove. Taking the chance of a possible house fire is not worth it and any time you have a chimney fire your whole house is in danger. If this scares some folks, then good! Better to be scared and forced into doing things right than the alternative.

SWNH · Jan 18, 2010

Been there, done that. THOUGHT it was a chimney fire, but it was just the noise of the flames in the box creating a HUGE draft. Flue temps will skyrocket with the side door open for too long. As you reach new highs in pipe temps, more paint will "cure".

Clodhopper · Jan 18, 2010

Thanks for the input. Yes, the wood is not as dry as it should be. I have never bought firewood before, but we got busy on a construction project and didn't get enough wood cut, so I ended up buying two "cords" of "seasoned" firewood from a local guy. I used the parenthesis because it was neither seasoned nor two cords. I guess I'll see about another source to finish out the winter.
The stove is out now and once it cools down completely I'll pull the pipe off and take a peek up the chimney (it's a straight shot). Would damage be pretty obvious visually?

Another question is, I know you can get firescreens for the Oslo, so I am assuming that you can open the front door without causing the blast furnace effect. Is that because the extra air goes right up the flue instead of through the fire on its way up the flue? Having that door open must really kill it's efficiency.

Thanks again,
Pete

Chettt · Jan 18, 2010

Clod it is impossible to have a chimney fire after only a month of burning.

gpcollen1 · Jan 18, 2010

I think it is quite possible to have a chimney fire after 1 month of burning and not quite sure why some folks think otherwise.

SWNH · Jan 18, 2010

Clodhopper said:
I know you can get firescreens for the Oslo, so I am assuming that you can open the front door without causing the blast furnace effect.

Thanks again,
Pete

Not without a flue damper.

Cire3 · Jan 18, 2010

Just before I replaced my old Kodiak I could have very well had a fire. I was using slot wood from a mill. I then got the new stove a month later, could have been a month and a half

I wish I took pictures of the build up, wow..... Put me in gear to get my act together. I heard pieces falling in the pipe like crazy.

ansehnlich1 · Jan 18, 2010

sounds like you either burned off some creosote that was in that elbow there, or you just had her going so strong that it was rumbling simply due to the roaring fire.

i notice you didn't mention any glowing pipes, that is strange. did ya see red, orange, what?

Battenkiller · Jan 18, 2010

CTwoodburner said:
I think it is quite possible to have a chimney fire after 1 month of burning and not quite sure why some folks think otherwise.

I think it is possible as well, but from the description of things, I believe it was probably just a normal burn gone runaway because of the open side door. Done it many times in my life and it really makes a roaring sound that makes you run to the stove. Magnetic flue pipe thermometer sliding down the pipe (that's why yer s'posed to wire them in place), very hot smell, popping sounds of expanding metal joints, the whole nine yards.

New Oslo, good install, one month burning. You'd have to be smoldering fresh-cut red oak rounds 24/7 to get enough creosote after only one month to make it roar like that. And I doubt a chimney fire that intense would just go out by closing the damper. Doesn't fit the facts given (though we weren't given them all), but anything is possible. Therefore, I think he's wise to thoroughly check things out anyway, particularly being a new burner.

FWIW, I've only looked at that stove in the store, but I don't see why you'd need a flue damper for open-front burning as long as you kept the size of the fire on the smallish side. Somewhere larger than a match and smaller than a full box should be a fire that would be OK.

begreen · Jan 18, 2010

We've had folks post here with a completely plugged cap and top of the flue in one month. It can and does happen rather quickly given the right ingredients.

chrisman34 · Jan 18, 2010

BeGreen said:
We've had folks post here with a completely plugged cap and top of the flue in one month. It can and does happen rather quickly given the right ingredients.

DID WITH ME !!!

I had a chimney fire 4 burns after having it cleaned......The sweep didn't do his job for that one....but I still had problems after having it done right....

The right ingredients in my case were

1) scared to death idiot (ie me)
2) not such great wood
3) fires way to cold

I would clean the chimney every other week.....AND IT NEEDED IT! 2-4 cups of heavy black creosote!

I now burn much hotter...still not perfect wood.....and when I cleaned it yesterday ( last cleaned before the season burn 24-7) got about 2 cups of very lite crud that I don't think would have burned. Very light...brown in color.

Battenkiller · Jan 18, 2010

BeGreen said:
We've had folks post here with a completely plugged cap and top of the flue in one month. It can and does happen rather quickly given the right ingredients.

Yes, that's because the flue gases are at their lowest temps way up there and are most likely to condense. The OP described a massive chimney fire down by the stove that went out within a short time after closing the damper. Only evidence of a fire was the roaring sound, which we all know will accompany a runaway burn, particularly when air is rushing into a partially closed door. The sound seemed to be confined to the elbow, where gases accelerate as they go around the bend and make even more noise. Like I said, totally possible, but not super likely in a quality stove that is supposed to be emitting about as much smoke as a cigar when operated correctly.

Information is missing, like: How big was the charge? How thin were the splits? What type of wood? Has there been trouble get hot fires going with this wood all along? What have the typical flue temps been for the last month? Have you been getting good draft? How soon do you close the stove down? Are you getting good secondaries? Do you get black smoke coming out of the top of the smokestack or do you just get heat waves?

Maybe none of the right ingredients were in place and there was simply an out-of-control fire. Not much is learned if you just jump to the "logical" conclusion - that a "roaring sound" = chimney fire. More information would be helpful, and then more thought and investigation is needed. All part of the long term learning process IMO. And if in the final analysis it is determined for sure that a chimney fire happened after one month, I think there are a lot more problems going on there than just imperfectly seasoned wood, operator error likely being #1 on the list. If not, I'll never lust for an EPA stove again, because my older stove burns less than optimal wood to perfection with tons of heat and little buildup in the flue.

snowtime · Jan 18, 2010

One thought is the 45 you spoke of. You said it kind of straightened out. Make sure you have 3 screws in that sucker on both ends or you could be in for a big surprise.

Clodhopper · Jan 18, 2010

Information is missing, like: How big was the charge? How thin were the splits? What type of wood? Has there been trouble get hot fires going with this wood all along? What have the typical flue temps been for the last month? Have you been getting good draft? How soon do you close the stove down? Are you getting good secondaries? Do you get black smoke coming out of the top of the smokestack or do you just get heat waves?

This has been a good education, and luckily the tuition payment was pretty low. To answer some of the above, I had about 3 or 4 pieces of quartered hard maple between 4 to 6 inches across. I have had some difficulty getting a hot fire going with some of this wood. Some of these fires have burned poorly enough that the draft lever can be kept wide open. I don't have enough experience with this type of stove to appraise the secondaries. No black smoke. Some white smoke when a more wood is added, but then just heat waves after it gets going.

I have taken the double wall stove pipe down to get a look at the chimney and it looks to me like it was probably more likely a runaway than a chimney fire. The chimney has a little flaky creosote in it but I'd guess not much (certainly not much of a diameter reduction). When this was going on there was no glowing pipes or anything, but it is double wall so I am guessing that there maybe wouldn't have been. The pipe did smoke quite a bit though and is quite a bit duller than it was before. There was about a cup of unburned flaky creosote in the 45 elbow just below the straight run of chimney, which does have me rethinking my layout. I have it set up with the stove collar coming out in the top position, then a 45, into a 12 inch, into the second 45, into an adjustable straight up into the stovepipe adaptor. I expected to find some stuff in the collar of the stove, but wasn't expecting too much in the top elbow. Would I be better off with a rear exit into a cleanout T? It could cause me some clearance issues that way though.

edit- Also, what kind or brush should I have to clean this chimney. I have a square wire brush and about 20 feet of handles from the block chimney I used to use, but I would guess a wire brush, even of the right shape might be a little rough on a stainless chimney.

Thanks

snowtime · Jan 18, 2010

I would hold off on the T idea. Make sure you have very good draft before making it worse with a T. The 45 accumulation is just a warning your wood is not dry. Next year you can start getting ahead on the wood drying thing but for now I would clean the chimney more often. As far as a brush get a proper round one either polly or steel. Manny have 45 elbows and only clean once a year but they are burning dry wood.

firefighterjake · Jan 20, 2010

Clodhopper said:
Information is missing, like: How big was the charge? How thin were the splits? What type of wood? Has there been trouble get hot fires going with this wood all along? What have the typical flue temps been for the last month? Have you been getting good draft? How soon do you close the stove down? Are you getting good secondaries? Do you get black smoke coming out of the top of the smokestack or do you just get heat waves?

Click to expand...

This has been a good education, and luckily the tuition payment was pretty low. To answer some of the above, I had about 3 or 4 pieces of quartered hard maple between 4 to 6 inches across. I have had some difficulty getting a hot fire going with some of this wood. Some of these fires have burned poorly enough that the draft lever can be kept wide open. I don't have enough experience with this type of stove to appraise the secondaries. No black smoke. Some white smoke when a more wood is added, but then just heat waves after it gets going.

I have taken the double wall stove pipe down to get a look at the chimney and it looks to me like it was probably more likely a runaway than a chimney fire. The chimney has a little flaky creosote in it but I'd guess not much (certainly not much of a diameter reduction). When this was going on there was no glowing pipes or anything, but it is double wall so I am guessing that there maybe wouldn't have been. The pipe did smoke quite a bit though and is quite a bit duller than it was before. There was about a cup of unburned flaky creosote in the 45 elbow just below the straight run of chimney, which does have me rethinking my layout. I have it set up with the stove collar coming out in the top position, then a 45, into a 12 inch, into the second 45, into an adjustable straight up into the stovepipe adaptor. I expected to find some stuff in the collar of the stove, but wasn't expecting too much in the top elbow. Would I be better off with a rear exit into a cleanout T? It could cause me some clearance issues that way though.

edit- Also, what kind or brush should I have to clean this chimney. I have a square wire brush and about 20 feet of handles from the block chimney I used to use, but I would guess a wire brush, even of the right shape might be a little rough on a stainless chimney.

Thanks

A bit late in reading this thread . . . but yeah, while it is in fact possible to have a chimney fire from creosote build up in less than a month, I kind of think this was just a fire getting a little too much draft because of the open side door. Lesson learned: Never leave the stove with the side door open . . . and the air control open all the way.

As for a brush . . . poly vs. steel . . . a great debate . . . one of those perennial debates here. My own opinion is that a poly brush sized correctly is good for stainless steel.

So, I had a little chimney fire tonight

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