NC30-Smoke backing up! Coming out door and 3" intake!

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dboone

Member
Nov 22, 2008
45
Western Missouri
I have not burned the stove for about a week and just fired it up tonight. Immediately once the paper was burning smoke started pooring out the door and was coming out the 3" intake (camera box thingy under the stove). It quickly filled the room with smoke. I immediately shut the air off and it quickly went out. I opened a basement window aired things out and tried it again. It started up with no problems and got the draft going the right direction. This is my second year burning and the first time I have seen this. The stove is in the basement with a very tall stack. BeGreen has told me before that I have a negative pressure or something going on in my basement. Hopefully he is not reading this because he will say "told you so". :) It seems that the issues I have had in the past have gone away. When I was first getting used to things I would occassionally get small amounts of smoking coming out the door, but never the intake. Do you think I might have had a very rare & strange air pressure situation that got the stove confused about which way to send the smoke? I did a visual from the ground of the chimney cap and it looks pretty clean, no dripping of creosote and a barely visible stream of smoke coming out.

Once the fire was going for a little while I did close that window and no smoke comes out when opening the door.
 
dboone said:
I have not burned the stove for about a week and just fired it up tonight.
Click to expand...

Could something have taken up residence in your flue, and then "flue" the coop after you got things going?
 
Ja, sounds like negative pressure reversed your flue. A common problem for basement burners. Next time, open a basement window before you light the stove.
 
I had the same thing happen to me not long ago, clothes dryer was running and created a negative pressure, an OAK solved the problem.
 
I say nothing. :zip:
 
Really tall stack, gets full of really cold air...that cold (heavy) air wants to come down into your relatively warm (lighter air) basement when you open the stove door to load up and light a fire...while you're starting a fire in the firebox, a column of cold heavy air is coming down the stack into the stove and out into the room. I've experienced that with both a woodstove and an open fireplace. That air will feed the fire just fine! But it's backwards, of course. There are lots of things that folks do to pre-heat the stack to encourage the draft to travel in the desired direction before they start making lots of smoke. Opening a downstairs window a crack, sticking a burning propane torch up in there for a few minutes, cramming some newspaper up in there and lighting it, heating the firebox/stack in any safe manner. In any case, the thing should draft great once you get the temperature differential straightened out. Rick
 
fossil said:
...Opening a downstairs window a crack, sticking a burning propane torch up in there for a few minutes, cramming some newspaper up in there and lighting it, heating the firebox/stack in any safe manner. In any case, the thing should draft great once you get the temperature differential straightened out. Rick
Click to expand...

I have almost the same exact situation as dboone. New house, 32+ feet of chimney, stove in the basement, etc. As you said, when the stove is cold and you open the door, there is a ton of cold air blowing down the chimney. I did the propane torch thing a few times, but found that simply cracking a window or exterior door and lighting a few loose bundles of paper was the best way to get the air going in the right direction. Added an OAK a couple of weeks ago, but the stove has been running since so i don't know if that will help.
 
BeGreen, I was only kidding...I was actually looking forward to the "I told you so". :) When it first happened it caught me off guard, but I at least now know to run straight to the window if it happens again. I probably won't make a habit out of opening the window everytime it starts since this usually does not occur. For the most part I keep it going 24/7 so this usually won't be an issue.
 
I have a basement install as well and I've never had this happen to me once in 20 years. Could it be because it's an interior masonry chimney? It's at least 25' tall. This year I sealed up the basement better so I expected a problem might develop, but so far, so good. Gotta say, though, I haven't had a cold flue all winter. At least I've learned plenty of tricks here that I can do when/if it occurs.
 
Battenkiller said:
I have a basement install as well and I've never had this happen to me once in 20 years. Could it be because it's an interior masonry chimney? It's at least 25' tall. This year I sealed up the basement better so I expected a problem might develop, but so far, so good. Gotta say, though, I haven't had a cold flue all winter. At least I've learned plenty of tricks here that I can do when/if it occurs.
Click to expand...

Yup- Interior chimney's have it all over exterior ones. Because they're inside the house, they don't nearly as cold as an exterior. Being a basement exterior chimney burner, I just found the secret is to simply never let my stove get cold.

My Kent Sherwood has a bypass damper, similar to the Lopi's. If I am going to do a "cold" start, I'll just stick my hand all the way in. If I feel cold air coming down, firing up a piece of newspaper is usually enough to "prime" the stack.
 
dboone said:
BeGreen, I was only kidding...I was actually looking forward to the "I told you so". :) When it first happened it caught me off guard, but I at least now know to run straight to the window if it happens again. I probably won't make a habit out of opening the window everytime it starts since this usually does not occur. For the most part I keep it going 24/7 so this usually won't be an issue.
Click to expand...

If the problem is intermittent, pay attention to what is different when the problem occurs. Look for:

1) anything blowing air out of the house at that time? (bath fan, dryer, furnace, etc.)

2) is there a window opened upstairs?

3) what is the weather like? is there a low pressure system around? are the outside temps mild?
 
I have the same type of stove, and it was working great until this week. The wood simply won't burn hot enough, and smoke comes into the room whenever I open the door to reload. Could the vent at the front of the stove be clogged? I've already cleaned the chimney twice this season and cleaned the interior pipes once.
 
Carstonio said:
I have the same type of stove, and it was working great until this week. The wood simply won't burn hot enough, and smoke comes into the room whenever I open the door to reload. Could the vent at the front of the stove be clogged? I've already cleaned the chimney twice this season and cleaned the interior pipes once.
Click to expand...

According to your posts this month last year that Acclaim wasn't working well then. Did you replace the broken and warped parts?
 
We sold the Acclaim and bought the Englander new.

I should mention that our area of the country received more than a foot of snow over the weekend, and our chimney isn't capped - could there still be moisture in the chimney? I had a cap on the chimney last year but took it off almost immediately because the metal webbing on it was getting caked.

Our normal procedure is to burn hardwood and pine at the same time. I've been told that the hotter burning temperature of the hardwood will cut down on creosote buildup from the pine, and I would like to know if this is accurate.

This is a fairly large stove, and until late last week we could run the control wide open and heat most of the house. But I plan to recheck the interior pipes again because last time, the amount of material in the pipes was significant. Almost like old health books showing fatty deposits on artery walls.
 
Carstonio said:
We sold the Acclaim and bought the Englander new.

I should mention that our area of the country received more than a foot of snow over the weekend, and our chimney isn't capped - could there still be moisture in the chimney? I had a cap on the chimney last year but took it off almost immediately because the metal webbing on it was getting caked.

Our normal procedure is to burn hardwood and pine at the same time. I've been told that the hotter burning temperature of the hardwood will cut down on creosote buildup from the pine, and I would like to know if this is accurate.

This is a fairly large stove, and until late last week we could run the control wide open and heat most of the house. But I plan to recheck the interior pipes again because last time, the amount of material in the pipes was significant. Almost like old health books showing fatty deposits on artery walls.
Click to expand...

"because the metal webbing on it was getting caked. "
"the amount of material in the pipes was significant. "
"run the control wide open"

Your wood is wet. Probably very wet from the sounds of things. Given the description you are giving, you could be at pretty high risk for a chimney fire, which can be a very bad thing. Does your wood "sizzle" at all or bubble moisture on the ends? If it does, it's wet.

Pine burns hotter but much faster than hardwood. Both, if not dry, will contribute to creosote buildup. I would recommend, if you are unable to obtain a dry source of cordwood, to try solid brick "biomass" fuel. Thermalogs, HomePrest FireLogs, EcoBrix, BioBricks, EnviLogs, those are but a few and they'll get you through the winter until your existing supply has had a chance to dry out some. Don't do the "supermarket" logs like Duraflame and the like though. Those are for fireplaces only.

And definately check/inspect your entire exhaust stack, and clean as necessary.

-Al
Hearth Mounted Kent Sherwood
 
agartner said:
Yup- Interior chimney's have it all over exterior ones. Because they're inside the house, they don't nearly as cold as an exterior. Being a basement exterior chimney burner, I just found the secret is to simply never let my stove get cold.

My Kent Sherwood has a bypass damper, similar to the Lopi's. If I am going to do a "cold" start, I'll just stick my hand all the way in. If I feel cold air coming down, firing up a piece of newspaper is usually enough to "prime" the stack.
Click to expand...


yep you gotta prime the draft like listed above
 
Our wood doesn't show sizzling or bubbling. However, I have noticed that when it starts to burn well, I can hear a tapping sound coming from either the interior pipe or the top of the stove itself, about once every second or 2 seconds. Any idea what the sound could be?
 
Carstonio said:
Our wood doesn't show sizzling or bubbling. However, I have noticed that when it starts to burn well, I can hear a tapping sound coming from either the interior pipe or the top of the stove itself, about once every second or 2 seconds. Any idea what the sound could be?
Click to expand...

My guess would be just the metal expanding a bit as things heat up. Mine ticks all the time - it's my reminder to go and adjust the airflow.
 
dboone said:
I have not burned the stove for about a week and just fired it up tonight. Immediately once the paper was burning smoke started pooring out the door and was coming out the 3" intake (camera box thingy under the stove). It quickly filled the room with smoke. I immediately shut the air off and it quickly went out. I opened a basement window aired things out and tried it again. It started up with no problems and got the draft going the right direction. This is my second year burning and the first time I have seen this. The stove is in the basement with a very tall stack. BeGreen has told me before that I have a negative pressure or something going on in my basement. Hopefully he is not reading this because he will say "told you so". :) It seems that the issues I have had in the past have gone away. When I was first getting used to things I would occassionally get small amounts of smoking coming out the door, but never the intake. Do you think I might have had a very rare & strange air pressure situation that got the stove confused about which way to send the smoke? I did a visual from the ground of the chimney cap and it looks pretty clean, no dripping of creosote and a barely visible stream of smoke coming out.

Once the fire was going for a little while I did close that window and no smoke comes out when opening the door.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem except inside flue but vaulted to about 20’ with a 4’ section of triple wall out close to the peak. Almost every time i would start it it would smoke. I would use a torch to heat it up but sometimes it would take forever. I installed a draw collar several months ago and it has taken away the hassle of getting a torch out every time.
 
If the cap is getting caked quickly, the flue gas is too cool. Gotta treat the problem, not the symptom.
 
Could be either. If the wood was stored unsplit, it may have not dried in the middle. If the wood was in a pile on the ground or stacked uncovered on the top, with little air circulation, it could still be damp.

Split open a few splits in half and put a moisture meter on the freshly split face of the wood. If you don't have a moisture meter, put the freshly split face of the wood up against your cheek. Does it feel cool and damp? If so, it still needs drying.
 
Thanks for the advice. We were having problems from burning wood that hadn't been sufficiently split. We have a large basement so I split and brought in about 30 pieces so they'll dry faster, given the large snows we've had this past month.

One more question - I cut the interior pipes myself, and the horizontal section is about half a degree off level, pointing slightly down toward the hole in the chimney. Should I trim a inch or so off the vertical section after burning season is over?

And which suppliers would you recommend for accessories, such as non-metal chimney brushes for the interior pipes? I have square metal brushes that work for the chimney itself. I also need to replace the trap door at the base of the chimney. Any in the mid-Atlantic would be great.
 
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