Englander 13 very touchy primary, all or nothing??

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ckarotka

ckarotka

Minister of Fire
Sep 21, 2009
641
Northwest PA on the lake
New ESW 13 1 week ago. replaced a smaller but functioning well stove (short burn times). 15-16' straight up chimney. Dry wood, burned great in the old stove 2 weeks ago.

I have NO trouble getting to 600 and higher on the top thermo, placed in the center in front of the flue collar.
Here's the situation:
Good coal bed stove top at 300
reload with 1 medium-large split
2 small-medium splits
1-2 small splits in front on coals
crack door fire gets going well 15min or so
close door let in climb to 400 close primary half
climbs to 500 slowly close primary in half again
climbs to 550 close primary more, at this point the primary is only open about a 1/4-3/8"
secondaries snuff out rather quick
I open the primary a little about 1/4"
the fire gets established again but if I don't catch it it wants to overfire went to close to 700 today
now I have to close it all the way and wait, the fire responds after some time, the secondaries will go crazy for a bit then snuff out again. let it cool a bit.
I have to pull the lever out about 3/8 again to get secondaries back, then close it a little back to 1/4" open, the it snuffs out again, back to 3/8 and then she runs away and I have to shut her down.
I can't get it to criuse it's soooooo touchy, all hell breaks loose or it runs to cold??
Is the primary that touchy or should I consider blocking off the zipper holes to decrease some air so that the primary has a wider error range?
I've opened a window thinking it can't pull enough air at 1/4 open due to pressure problems, but I don't get any smoke inside ever, and this really had no effect.

In summary 1/4" movements produce drastic results, I read all I can find didn't find anything about this problem. Please help.
 
I am on day 5 with my 13. I do almost the same thing you do. I am wide open to start, with door slightly opened. Once I get a good burn going I close the door still leave the primary open till there is a good overall flame throughout. I then shut to 3/4-7/8 shut sometimes all the way depending on the load. I get no snuff out. I haven't gone by the temp, more by the look of the fire. I always get to 650* then hover at 550* and slowly drop over 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Hope that helps.

BTW does your stove tick? I have read about temp changes making a stove tick. I usually adjust the primary when it ticks.
 
Just got my thirteen four days ago coming from NC-30, The control is much more sensitive but I can control my loads better I don't have the excess draft I hadwith the 30.
:lol:
 
FireAnt said:
BTW does your stove tick? I have read about temp changes making a stove tick. I usually adjust the primary when it ticks.
Click to expand...

Yeah my 30 starts ticking right at 550 degrees. I know it is time to set the primary for the long burn about then.
 
I read that thread and searched for the holes with no luck, and it;s on legs. So I blocked the holes with bolts, no real significant change, so I unblocked them. I got to a point where things were going real good, nice burns easy start up, then last night it happened again. I loaded the stove with a decent coal bed around 325 stove top. Got things rollin started shutting down the primary in stages just like I have been doing. The secondaries took off like crazy and I had eventually shut the primary all the way. The secondaries kept right on going till she hit 650 stove top after about an hour to hour and a half, then started cooling slowly, I fell aspleep after the secondaries died but woke to a 200 stove top and good coals about 6.5 hours later. I lost control somehow or that's what is supposed to happen not sure. I had a good load in there and it's kinda nerve racking not being able to control the fire after a point. How am I to know she won't overfire since I am out of adjustment??
 
I forgot to mention I think it's the wood. I tested a-lot of pieces that read decent 18-23%. It also seems the deeper I get into this stack of purchased wood the worse it's getting. At this point I don't believe the MM anymore since it reads good but sizzles. Glass is clean and after a few weeks the stack is fine also, mainly because I baby sit it to keep it hot. My gut says it's the wood and MM says maybe, I'm going with my gut on this one. The house is warm and I still get good burn times but next years wood is split and stacked and covered right now so I can't wait to get into that.
 
ckarotka said:
The secondaries kept right on going till she hit 650 stove top after about an hour to hour and a half, then started cooling slowly, I fell aspleep after the secondaries died but woke to a 200 stove top and good coals about 6.5 hours later. I lost control somehow or that's what is supposed to happen not sure. I had a good load in there and it's kinda nerve racking not being able to control the fire after a point. How am I to know she won't overfire since I am out of adjustment??
Click to expand...

I don't think a stove top of 650 is losing control. In fact a lot of the old farts here talk about 550-650 stove top being a good cruising temp.

When you see a part of your stove beginning to glow red (other than the fire...) then you're definitely overfiring.

I'd say you had a good burn.
 
I agree with what carinya said. On a full load of wood a non-cat stove is going to "spike" in the early stage of the burn. 650* doesn't sound too bad to me with a coal bed 6.5hrs later.
 
If I knew it would stop at 650 I'd be great with that but a few times she went right past that to 750 and I began to sweat from more than the heat. I was told this stove lime to cruise around 500 so that was my target temp. I'll just keep trying diff things "it's all good" as they say we are warm and I might not get through all this years wood with this new stove in place now and the two weeks of warm temps so I'll save it for next year.

Thanks
 
ckarotka said:
If I knew it would stop at 650 I'd be great with that but a few times she went right past that to 750 and I began to sweat from more than the heat.
Click to expand...

Are you using IR or stove top thermo ?

I found the stove top thermo exponentially OVERSTATED the hotter the temp, so I rely on the IR for a true read.
 
FireAnt said:
I am on day 5 with my 13. I do almost the same thing you do. I am wide open to start, with door slightly opened. Once I get a good burn going I close the door still leave the primary open till there is a good overall flame throughout. I then shut to 3/4-7/8 shut sometimes all the way depending on the load. I get no snuff out. I haven't gone by the temp, more by the look of the fire. I always get to 650* then hover at 550* and slowly drop over 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Hope that helps.

BTW does your stove tick? I have read about temp changes making a stove tick. I usually adjust the primary when it ticks.
Click to expand...

I installed my 13 back in October. Its in my finished garage, so I don't burn 24/7. My stove only has one air control and that is above the door. I'm still learning my air control positions to get the best burn. And yes, she does tick.
 
FireAnt said:
BTW does your stove tick?
Click to expand...

Yes, with a small distinct "sproing"..... that's an oi sound as in boy :lol:
 
It's possible that a turn damper or even a barometric damper might help you settle the stove down a bit, but most smaller stoves do seem to have a limited range of output (all or nothing). There are probably exceptions, like the Jotul 602 or Bear because they burn the wood front to back so not as much is being combusted at one time. Once an entire load is in flames, through, there is not much you can do.
 
ckarotka said:
I have NO trouble getting to 600 and higher on the top thermo, placed in the center in front of the flue collar.
Click to expand...

I think your stove top thermo is overstating your temp.

I coughed up for this IR http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017L9Q9C/ref=ox_ya_oh_product & discovered my stove top thermo was way out of line once it got above 500 °F

BrotherBart will complain about IR thermo's being inaccurate eg outside walls 122 °F (but I think it's probably a true reading because BB likes to get around in t-shirt & boxers (or less) when it's 10 °F outside :lol: )

On their website England explains where to take the temp reading for their new 17

When using a magnetic stove thermometer, locate the thermometer above the door on either the left or right side of the stove
 
What'd I say about BB's boxers ??

BrotherBart said:
Looked back at the stove and it has settled into the burn to die for. The one you try for every time and love to finally get.
Whoops! This place is gonna be a sauna tonight.
Click to expand...
:coolgrin:
 
I've been taking all temps with an I.R. gun. The mag thermos don't respond to fast changes fast enough. I've had some luck with a few good burns here and there, I just can't be consistent. I do understand that wood burns in a cycle with temps going up and down and diff wood burns faster or hotter. This crazy weather over the last few weeks is not helping any 40* to 25* back to 38 then 45. Tomorrow the day starts at 45 then by dark around 22*. And like I said the wood is all kinds of diff moisture readings. Right now the best stuff I have for a good overnighter is 8-10" odd shaped chunks. I can only get about three in there at a time. When I do get a good burn she hoovers around 600 then slowly cools, I would like to 500 because the heating stage of the burn would last longer. I have to make too many adjustments during the cycle, there's no set it and forget it here.
 
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