Stainless Steel Liner Insulation

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beveryda

Member
Oct 18, 2008
10
New Jersey
Newbie. I purchased my first wood stove(Hearthstone Shelburne) this past November, so I've used it a little over two months, and I just experienced my first chinmney fire. The connection in the back and part of what I can see of the liner was bright RED with that loud sound. I purchased 2 cords of wood, but it wasn't seasoned as advertised. Used it anyways since I didn't have anything else, now at least 80% used. Stove was professionally installed in front of my old fireplace with SS liner installed all the way up the chimney. They had a hard time installing the liner since my chimney is shaped with a severe angle. Ended up boring out all the old clay flue to get more space to run the liner through. The installer insists that there is no need for insulation since the chimney is in the middle of my house.

Is it safer to get the liner insulated? I've read that insulation is a must, but I've talked to three different installers and they all said no need.
The chimney is brick with no clay flue, probably around 8" maybe less, with 6" SS liner. Is this safe as is?

My teenage son saw this and with the fire alarms going off, grabbed his jacket, the dog, and his laptop and ran out of the house......
I don't think I can use the stove until I can explain to him it is safe...........
I will make sure not to use unseasoned wood, but any other advise would be appreciated.
 
Get that thing insulated! If they removed the tile liner and installed the stainless liner with no insulation, it is not up to code. On an interior chimney with the clay flue intact, then you would probably not need the insulation. Heck, that's how I have mine, but I've convinced myself that I'm going to use some perlite and get as much as I can around the stainless liner.
 
beveryda said:
Newbie. I purchased my first wood stove(Hearthstone Shelburne) this past November, so I've used it a little over two months, and I just experienced my first chinmney fire. The connection in the back and part of what I can see of the liner was bright RED with that loud sound. I purchased 2 cords of wood, but it wasn't seasoned as advertised. Used it anyways since I didn't have anything else, now at least 80% used. Stove was professionally installed in front of my old fireplace with SS liner installed all the way up the chimney. They had a hard time installing the liner since my chimney is shaped with a severe angle. Ended up boring out all the old clay flue to get more space to run the liner through. The installer insists that there is no need for insulation since the chimney is in the middle of my house.

Is it safer to get the liner insulated? I've read that insulation is a must, but I've talked to three different installers and they all said no need.
The chimney is brick with no clay flue, probably around 8" maybe less, with 6" SS liner. Is this safe as is?

My teenage son saw this and with the fire alarms going off, grabbed his jacket, the dog, and his laptop and ran out of the house......
I don't think I can use the stove until I can explain to him it is safe...........
I will make sure not to use unseasoned wood, but any other advise would be appreciated.

Your installer is plain wrong - having the chimney in the center of the house is more of a reason to insulate it from a safety point of view.

Brick chimneys require airspace between the outside of the chimney and combustibles - 1 inch for chimneys on outside walls, 2 inches for interior chimneys. Exterior chimneys need less air gap due to cooling - the same cooling that can cause poor draft is what makes it less likely for thermal transfer to adjacent combustibles.

So, unless you are sure you have 2 inches of gap around your chimney, additional action is required.

That said, not all liners can be insulated - check the instructions for the product you use. Magnaflex sells a flex liner that states in the instructions that insulation is not recommended, for example. Insulation permissibility, and the method of insulating (ceramic blanket wrap or Thermix or other products) is all based on the testing the company went thru when they had their liner system certified. So, if you have a chimney that needs extra thermal protection due to reduced clearances to combustibles, then follow the instructions for your liner that will grant you the reduced clearances you need. If the instructions don't discuss insulating the liner, then get a different liner product.

I recommend you give your installer a copy of the Best Practices Guide linked in my signature block, and have them review the instructions that apply to your liner system with you. That may reveal to you and the installer how to insulated, and why it is required, or it may reveal that the product they installed isn't suitable for the situation you have, in which case get your money back, as they didn't install your liner to meet code.

After all of that, you obviously need dry wood to avoid the fire in the first place - in your case, insulation is for the added safety should you have a chimney fire, decreasing the risk of damage outside the chimney during a chimney fire. Given that you have had a chimney fire, you should pull the liner you have for a full inspection of the chimney, and install a new liner - like other safety equipment, liners shouldn't be reused after a chimney fire IMHO.

Good luck and burn safe.
 
Here in wissonsin if the chimney has all the clay tiles in it we aren't required to wrap the liner. 1/4 inch blanket makes liner 2" to combustables 1/2" blanket makes pipe zero clearance. Sounds like you are not up to code if you removed tiles to get liner to fit and the installers need some education.
 
woodhound said:
Here in wissonsin if the chimney has all the clay tiles in it we aren't required to wrap the liner. 1/4 inch blanket makes liner 2" to combustables 1/2" blanket makes pipe zero clearance. Sounds like you are not up to code if you removed tiles to get liner to fit and the installers need some education.

That's where I'm at and that's what I have. However, I think I will feel better about everything after I get the perlite poured down!
 
ikessky said:
woodhound said:
Here in wissonsin if the chimney has all the clay tiles in it we aren't required to wrap the liner. 1/4 inch blanket makes liner 2" to combustables 1/2" blanket makes pipe zero clearance. Sounds like you are not up to code if you removed tiles to get liner to fit and the installers need some education.

That's where I'm at and that's what I have. However, I think I will feel better about everything after I get the perlite poured down!

It really doesn't have anything to do with being in Wisconsin, Tuktoyuktuk, or New York City - it has to do with following the manufacturers instructions for the liner.

Anytime you install a liner, it comes with instructions, and when they are followed, you get a UL 1777 certified install. If you don't follow them, then you don't.

If the instructions say that when installed inside clay tiles, then it is certified to zero clearance, then it is. I would suspect though that those clay tiles would need to be inspected and known to be in good shape, and if they were, would you be running a liner down them?

As for Perlite pour in insulation, again, check the instructions - not all liners allow you to use it. Nuff said.
 
My liner install manual talks about pour in, but I'm going to call them and ask some specifics before doing it.
 
Thank you all for the information. The chimney guy is coming tomorrow to inspect and clean so I will discuss with them about the insulation. I will definately get it insulated.

I hope I can find someone who sells real seasoned wood. I've gone to several places who advertise seasoned wood, but they seemed unseasoned to me.........
 
I think you are going to have trouble finding truly seasoned wood for sale right now. It's never too soon to start thinking about next year though.
 
The real trick beveryda is to get wood you know isn't seasoned, then season it yourself, that way you know for a fact that its dry.
Scrounge it up, or even just buy a cord or two of "green wood" and stack it out back for a year or two until you know for sure that it's good to go. Because otherwise, you're going to get someone charging you for dry wood, but it'll be anything but that. I know it may be a PITA but chimney fires are no joke, that's a serious issue... I'm glad you guys are unharmed.

Furthermore, that just goes to show how big an issue of having dry wood can be. Its not simply getting the max amount of BTU's out of the wood or having the longest burn or anything like that, its about safety. I'm sorry this is a bit of a rant, but it ticks me off to have people like yourself, or any of us on here taken advantage of regarding buying wood or an inadequate install job by a "professional". Its uncalled for and... just plain wrong.
 
Thanks. Good points. I've been asking around for wood, so hopefully I'll be seasoning a bunch of them in my back yard this year.
I guess my use this season is going to be limited.

This is much more difficult than I imagined.......
 
It's not difficult, per say. It's just something you have to keep on top of. If you can get to the point where you are two years ahead on wood, then you don't have so much pressure. Splitting and stacking wood is perfect for a teenager, by the way! ;-)

Arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible before your chimney guy comes back out. Chimney fires are no joking matter and you may have already compromised your current liner. If one is taking the proper precautions, even a smoke dragon should not have a chimney fire.
 
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