BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
bjkjoseph said:
I really find that hard to believe.
I have a VC Intrepid, which is larger than the Aspen. My neighbor's Fireview puts off a LOT more heat than the Intrepid.
Opinion on Soapstone
- Thread starter willmcb
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I really find that hard to believe.
I have a VC Intrepid, which is larger than the Aspen. My neighbor's Fireview puts off a LOT more heat than the Intrepid.
Todd
Minister of Fire
Texas boy said:
Yikes
You better cut that air back sooner with that Cedar or your going to melt that stove into a big pile of molten iron and stone! :bug:
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Texas boy said:
I'm in tears reading this. Those are amazing temps and burn times. So is it heating the big Texas house enough in cold weather?
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
If you always get over 700 deg and up to 800 then in a few years nothing breaks maybe woodstock will refund your money for doing this new high temp research 
fire_man
Minister of Fire
gyrfalcon said:
That's really interesting. I was just yapping in another thread how painfully slow my soapstone stove gets hot and all I have ever burned its entire 2 year life is beech and birch. Sounds like you are confirming my story! In my case I have nothing to compare with until next year since I am just this year finishing with a 2+ year beech/birch supply cut from my neighborhood. Next year is zero beech/birch and on to ash/cherry/oak and maple.Good to know there is hope!!
gyrfalcon
Minister of Fire
fire_man said:
Beech and birch (black birch, that is) are fabulous woods that burn really hot and the beech hot and fairly slow. It's just that you've got to get the fire going first. The standard "mixed hardwood" people sell around here is usually beech, black birch, rock maple and ash, and now I know why that's such a good mix. I've only had a very little ash, but that seems to light up quickly, too, and like maple, burn hot enough to get the harder stuff going.
But here's the big key for me: Start with smaller splits! I don't know if that's more important with soapstone overall, but it sure is in my very small stove in any case. I really struggled, even with very dry wood, until I tried cutting the splits down a bit, and that made all the difference in the world.
If I were you, I would definitely not turn up my nose at beech/birch. But hey, if you've got some you don't want, send it over here and I'll give it a really good home.
FireWalker said:
So are you saying that basically soapstone can only absorb or retain so much heat and constant reloading in a soapstone is wasting wood?
Todd
Minister of Fire
willmcb said:
I don't really agree with that statement. The release is happening during 24/7 burning too, the extra mass and heat retention releases the heat in a more even way over a longer period between reloads. Steel or cast will release more heat sooner and also cool off sooner between reloads.
Take for example two houses, one made of soapstone the other made of steel. Both houses are of the exact same design with a vent in the bottom of the house and a pipe at the top of the house. An equal amount of Heat is pumped into each of the houses. The heat causes the air to move. Air flows in at the vents at the bottoms and out the pipes at the tops at the same rate in both houses.
Soapstone Properties: Poor conductor of electricity and heat, higher specific heat capacity (compared with steel), and high heat retention(properties somewhat resemble insulator)
Steel Properties: Excellent conductor heat, moderate conductor of electricity, and lower specific heat capacity(compared with soapstone)
Considering the properties of each of the materials from which the houses were built. Not including the heat lost through the pipes, Which one of the houses released more heat into the surroundings? These houses represent stoves of the experiment I can't perform flawlessly, but I feel like I know what the outcome would be.
Soapstone Properties: Poor conductor of electricity and heat, higher specific heat capacity (compared with steel), and high heat retention(properties somewhat resemble insulator)
Steel Properties: Excellent conductor heat, moderate conductor of electricity, and lower specific heat capacity(compared with soapstone)
Considering the properties of each of the materials from which the houses were built. Not including the heat lost through the pipes, Which one of the houses released more heat into the surroundings? These houses represent stoves of the experiment I can't perform flawlessly, but I feel like I know what the outcome would be.
Todd said:
I didn't really agree with that statement either. I agree that the release does happen on a 24/7 burning cycle too. But I do believe that the maximum heat-BTU storage capability of soapstone can be easily attained and once the maximum is reached the slower (all relative) conduction of heat results in less heat being absorbed to be transferred. Where faster conduction of heat in steel (again relative) allows for more heat to be transferred.
How could his experiment be flawed? If what he says is true I find the input and the outcome undeniable...he put more wood in the soapstone stove, a bigger stove, and it heated the house 2 degrees less over a certin period of time. Both stoves recieved the same wood seasoned the same...so regardless of his correct or incorrect impressions of fuel quality, both stoves are operating on the same source. He has come to the only logical solution possible... Could it be that the soapstone on the exterior of the stove actually has insulated the heat from radiating into the room at some temps? If so, the perhaps his conclusion is sound...I find his biggest mistake was admitting his age, unnecessary and unrelated, yet perhaps making it easier for us negate his research. I'd like more of the raw facts, first of all, the oakwood is a downdraft, were you running it with the bypass closed or open?
I'd be willing to bet that with the exact same partial load of wood, the soapstone would outperform the cast. Maybe perhaps the issue here is the fact he's fully loading the stoves and operating them at high temps. I would think the soapstone would lend itselft to medium fires over longer periods where all the heat could be stored and dissipated better. The cast is going to respond much better at high temps. Its not going out the stack before it can be saturated with the cast. He would probabily see the same 68 degrees using 1/2 the wood in the soapstone, thats the beauty of the stone, it a better thermal storage unit. Try this experiment, how much wood does it take to keep the house at 65 degrees in each stove? Does this make sence?
Todd
Minister of Fire
willmcb said:
I see what your getting at but I don't know if it's true unless you monitor the flue temps constantly and break it down between the two over a similar load and similar time? My current stove which is soapstone runs the lowest flue temps I've ever seen comparing numerous other stoves I've burned over many years. But then efficiency will play a big roll in flue temps as well. Many different variable at play here, maybe more tests would be appropriate?
The bypass was closed in the Oakwood so I was getting the downdraft. But I have burnt in the Quadrafire and Regency stoves with systems nearly equivalent to the mansfield's. I derived the same conclusions from those stoves too, but I was just not able to alternate them on my hearth like the Mansfield and the Oakwood. Perhaps once I begin working in the stove shops I will be allowed to run some more experiments. I knew admitting my age would make my research easier to negate. I know how people are set in their beliefs and I hoped that would aid to cool emotions. I just want to throw this information out there, hopefully some people will listen with an open mind.
rkymtnoffgrid said:
Well really I have already tried this. The Mansfield does not do very well with a half load of wood. I do better to put a full load in, open the air control all the way and then cut it down once it gets hot. In the Oakwood I am able to burn a medium fire while maintaining high stovetop temps. ,
thinkxingu
Minister of Fire
You lost me at "I once read that soapstone will peak out at 500 no matter how much wood you put in it." If you don't like how soapstone stoves work, don't buy one. Seems simple to me.
However, having had both steel and soap, I'll take my rock any day of the week and twice on Sundays (I'm trying to bring back my dad's sayings!). Cast iron I've not tried.
S
However, having had both steel and soap, I'll take my rock any day of the week and twice on Sundays (I'm trying to bring back my dad's sayings!). Cast iron I've not tried.
S
ansehnlich1
Retired Hearth.com Member
Bigg_Redd said:
HaHa Redd, these soapy folk must have you on INGORE cuz a quick glance showed that they flat out did not respond to your invite
Hey, I didn't even come in this thread because I never burned soapstone, but my bet it that it does a great job heating......
I'm a cast iron dude myself, I like to get it up and crankin' when I need it!
Todd said:
Nope, I guess I'm saying the hotter the stones are, the more btu's they have in storage. I suppose given two equal blocks of soapstone, if you bake one to 600 degrees and bake the other to 1200 degrees my guess is the hotter one has twice as much stored energy. So no, your not wasting wood, your just not utilizing the stored heat.
Yes, the release is happening 24/7, but what about the heat that is retained in the stones, it's like money in the bank. As an imaginary experiment, take my Equinox up to 600 degrees and then remove all the remaining fuel/coals from the box, now the stones will "cash in" on the stored heat.....and there is a lot of it compared to steel and iron, thats a wonderful and unique property of soapstone. Do the same experiment with steel and cast iron and the steel will go cold first (excellent conductor), cast iron will fall to room temprature next (good conductor) and no doubt the soapstone stove will be giving off btu's the longest.
My point was and still is, when burning 3 loads daily my stovetop never really goes below 300 before I reload so the stored heat (from 300 down to room temp) never has a chance to be used, so I'm not really taking full advantage of one of my stoves strong selling point, and that is heatlife. Well I don't in mid winter at least, come warmer weather when I only load once a day, that's when I can cash in on the storage capacity of the magic stones.
As, for the OP, a good experiment indeed but not exactly a Dodge vs Chevy comparison, similar yes but not apples to apples.
thinkxingu said:
Believe me my Equinox will not peak out at 500! Leave the damper open with a big load and there is no telling where it will go. there is a post somewhere in here where a dealer is reporting on a overfire on an Equinox due to a chimney fire. He posted temps of 900 degrees on the stones! He also said the stove was intact at least visually, I'll bet while this event did it no good, the stove is equipped and has been tested to withstand such events.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
willmcb said:
Will, that is a good looking install.
I do not think that soapstone is particular about the wood as I have detected no difference burning the same wood that we used to. Did I state that we now burn only half the amount of wood that we used to but stay warmer in the house?! The old stove was steel.
As you know Will, even standing dead wood will hold lots of moisture. Most of the time when we cut standing dead wood we season it the same as if it were green. The only exception we've had to that is with elm. If we wait until all the bark has fallen off then we can actually burn the top half of the tree right away. The bottom half though still needs much time.
It does take a lot of time to get ahead with your wood supply and I used to struggle with the same problem. But once you reach that point to where you have 3 years of wood on hand you'll never want to go back. It is a whole new ball game with wood burning when everything is right; especially the fuel. I like to ask what would happen if you put bad fuel in your car. Compare that with putting bad fuel into the stove. You just do not get the same results.
I also find it amazing that this store owner has lots of experience but yet is not really that knowledgeable. I guess it might boil down to the question: Do you have 10 years of experience or 1 year of experience 10 times?
Martin Strand III
New Member
thinkxingu said:
Sorry. This is not true. Soapstone, as well as other masonry, withstands heat much higher with ease; look at Tulikivi - all soapstone w/ firebox temps in the 2000* F range.
If there is a limiting factor to soapstone in a metal + soapstone wood stove, it is the metal, not the soapstone, that cannot take the heat w/o damage, over firing, etc. When you discuss heat qualities of soapstone when combined in a stove with steel or cast iron, you are not discussing just the soapstone.
Aye,
Marty
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
FireWalker said:
I am staying out of the Steel vs Stone deal here, only commented on what I saw as possible flaws in the test.. hey, it's what I do.. and I only have experience, and only a small amount, with "stone", as far as heating my home.
but anyways.. 900 degree rock in my living room
Can't imagine that. I got up to almost 600 the first week, once. It was 19 outside, 84 in the living room and climbing, 72 in the master bath, which is as far as you can get from the stove in this 2100 sqft... was good enough for me. and in fact run around 375-400 stove top when cruising, which keeps the whole house plenty comfortable.FireWalker said:
My point is that there is a maximum to the btu storage. The stone backed at 1200 degrees may only have 1.5 times the amount of stored energy. I don't know at what point the max is but I believe that with normal firebox temperature the maximum storage capacity is reached.
Todd
Minister of Fire
Marty S said:
True dat! I talked with Woodstock and they told me they were more worried about the cast iron getting over 1400 degrees than the soapstone when I asked about overfire, the rock can handle it.
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