Supervent ???: Wall Thimble and thru eaves question??

KevinK · Feb 4, 2010

I have two questions, ...looking for thoughts/ideas...

1.) How do most finish the outer wall thimble plate to the exterior of the house?
Where the pipe comes out of the house into the insulated Tee, ...it passes through the outer half of the wall thimble (basically the square sheet metal). How are most people sealing/finishing this plate (with regard to vinyl siding)? I am thinking of using J-channel around the sides of the plate and sealing, ...but was curious what others were doing in this area...???

2.) My house has a one(1) foot eave overhang on the gable end where my (8" id) metal chimney will go. What would you do? ....cut the eave? ...or use elbows to go around?
Since I thought the elbows were not allowed, ...and I'd prefer a straight up chimney, ...I'm leaning towards cutting the eve. So, ...with an 8" ID insulated pipe, ...the OD is 10", ...plus the 2" min clearance, ....the eave would need to be entirely cut (ie. NOTCHED) for the pipe. How would you finish/flash this? I do have the flashing kit, ...but with the outer edge of the pipe being even with the fascia of the eave, ...the flashing kit would be way too large.
My tentative plan is to 'modify' the flashing kit to work for me, ...but I'm curious on ideas, and what others may have done here.
As for the use of elbows, ...it may be that just 45's are not allowed? ...and 15's (or 30's) would be OK.? ...even so, ...if given the choice, ...would you go straight (and cut), ....or bend, ...and not have to cut....???

Thanks in advance for any information,

Kevin

ckdeuce · Feb 4, 2010

KevinK said:
I have two questions, ...looking for thoughts/ideas...

1.) How do most finish the outer wall thimble plate to the exterior of the house?
Where the pipe comes out of the house into the insulated Tee, ...it passes through the outer half of the wall thimble (basically the square sheet metal). How are most people sealing/finishing this plate (with regard to vinyl siding)? I am thinking of using J-channel around the sides of the plate and sealing, ...but was curious what others were doing in this area...???

2.) My house has a one(1) foot eave overhang on the gable end where my (8" id) metal chimney will go. What would you do? ....cut the eave? ...or use elbows to go around?
Since I thought the elbows were not allowed, ...and I'd prefer a straight up chimney, ...I'm leaning towards cutting the eve. So, ...with an 8" ID insulated pipe, ...the OD is 10", ...plus the 2" min clearance, ....the eave would need to be entirely cut (ie. NOTCHED) for the pipe. How would you finish/flash this? I do have the flashing kit, ...but with the outer edge of the pipe being even with the fascia of the eave, ...the flashing kit would be way too large.
My tentative plan is to 'modify' the flashing kit to work for me, ...but I'm curious on ideas, and what others may have done here.
As for the use of elbows, ...it may be that just 45's are not allowed? ...and 15's (or 30's) would be OK.? ...even so, ...if given the choice, ...would you go straight (and cut), ....or bend, ...and not have to cut....???

Thanks in advance for any information,

Kevin

Yes on the J-channel - That's what I did. I also ran through the 1' eave on my house. Cut a hole through the soffit and up through the roof. My flashing basically ran into my gutter. It was no probelm. Looks odd when looking down at it from the roof, but due to the fact it is three stories up, I doubt anyone will notice....

bag of hammers · Feb 4, 2010

curious -- 8" ID and 10" OD - is this a typo? I have 6" supervent which is 10" OD (2" insulation in the pipe wall).

KevinK · Feb 4, 2010

bag of hammers said:
curious -- 8" ID and 10" OD - is this a typo? I have 6" supervent which is 10" OD (2" insulation in the pipe wall).

...not a typo, ...there are two (maybe more) models of Supervent pipe, ...Model JSC (which I have) has 1" walls, ...where the other (that it appears you have, ....I don't know the model# off the top of my head) has the 2" wall.

djblech · Feb 4, 2010

Is there any way to go straight up through the ceiling? IMHO,I don't like the T- thimble design as that is a 90* turn that cuts down your draft. Keeping the chimney in the warm house as long as possible also seems to help the draft and less creosote build-up. Had a T- thimble in my cabin, took it out last year and went straight up, stove performance about doubled.
Doug

KevinK · Feb 5, 2010

djblech said:
Is there any way to go straight up through the ceiling? IMHO,I don't like the T- thimble design as that is a 90* turn that cuts down your draft. Keeping the chimney in the warm house as long as possible also seems to help the draft and less creosote build-up. Had a T- thimble in my cabin, took it out last year and went straight up, stove performance about doubled.
Doug

...Stove is/will be in the downstairs, ...I'd have to go through the living room (just above).

I agree though, that the Tee could/will affect performance, ...and possible creosote build up. Along those lines, I am doing the best I can to minimize the horizontal run from the stove (thru the wall) to the T, ....and adding a section of insulated pipe below the T. Minimizing the horizontal run should help draft, ...and the added insulated pipe below the Tee, ...should help (some) to prevent the Tee from being a 'cooling zone' (hence creosote...).

jjs777_fzr · Feb 6, 2010

glad I found this post (I hate posting new on repeat questions)

I am in the planning phase of the class A chimney design/build for a stove location in the basement using SUPERVENT 6" with T

From the supervent install info it says 15 and 30 offset elbows are NOT allowed externally to the envelope of the house.

Can anyone tell us WHY ?

With the stove in the basement - where the chimney will go horizontal to the T on the outside...then up...but then I have a 2 foot 2nd floor overhang -->
so -->
basement --->1st floor--->2nd floor--->3rd floor 9/12 pitch roof.

So I am thinking if I CANT use elbows to offset around my 2nd floor overhang I will have to go external (1st floor)...then go THROUGH my 2nd floor and building a chase in the corner of my daughters bedroom then continue through the 3rd floor for 12-16" and then poke out on top of the roof.

I really didnt want to have to go through my daughters bedroom on the 2nd floor using a chase enclosure.

I dont even know if that is permittable to have a chimney on the outside...then going into the structure and then back out again - I cant see why not but then codes are codes.

I'll see if I can post a pic or start a new thread so I dont go off topic here.

KevinK · Feb 7, 2010

jjs777_fzr said:
glad I found this post (I hate posting new on repeat questions)

I am in the planning phase of the class A chimney design/build for a stove location in the basement using SUPERVENT 6" with T

From the supervent install info it says 15 and 30 offset elbows are NOT allowed externally to the envelope of the house.

Can anyone tell us WHY ?

With the stove in the basement - where the chimney will go horizontal to the T on the outside...then up...but then I have a 2 foot 2nd floor overhang -->
so -->
basement --->1st floor--->2nd floor--->3rd floor 9/12 pitch roof.

So I am thinking if I CANT use elbows to offset around my 2nd floor overhang I will have to go external (1st floor)...then go THROUGH my 2nd floor and building a chase in the corner of my daughters bedroom then continue through the 3rd floor for 12-16" and then poke out on top of the roof.

I really didnt want to have to go through my daughters bedroom on the 2nd floor using a chase enclosure.

I dont even know if that is permittable to have a chimney on the outside...then going into the structure and then back out again - I cant see why not but then codes are codes.

I'll see if I can post a pic or start a new thread so I dont go off topic here.

...Well, ...I just spent the day, ...putting the chimney (Supervent 8" pipe) up, ...and I still am not 100% sure how I'm going to flash the roof. I basically cut/notched the soffit, ...and bent up coil stock to finish it off. I'll take pics tomorrow.

...JJS..., ...As you noted, ...and as per the Supervent Installation instructions, ...." ...DO NOT INSTALL AN OFFSET TO CLEAR THE OVERHANG". It doesn't get any clearer than that, ...that they don't want you/us offsetting outside. Honestly, ...I am not totally sure why...., especially since they seem to be allowed for through the roof applications (even providing the offset chart for the various angles).
Your specific situation is a tough one, ...as it appears the 'best' solution is to run through the room upstairs (as you mention). I have read (for draft reasons) that the horizonal (insulated pipe) run to the 'Tee' should not exceed 24", ...so I'm guessing, ...even if you wanted to extend the pipe from the basement (beyond the canteleverred 2nd story), ...you'd need to exceed that...

Here's a photo of how I finished it, ...for now. It's all sealed and honestly could stay this way, ...but I'm not sure if I like the idea of the rain running there. Still thinking of a better solution. In the mean time, ...I'm going to start getting some use from the stove

Here's the photo album, ...more pics of the chimney at the end http://imageevent.com/hvclassics/generalphotos/shedwork/woodstoverecrm?n=0&z=2&c=4&x=0&m=24&w=0&p=57

Kevin

bag of hammers · Feb 9, 2010

KevinK said:
bag of hammers said:

curious -- 8" ID and 10" OD - is this a typo? I have 6" supervent which is 10" OD (2" insulation in the pipe wall).

Click to expand...

...not a typo, ...there are two (maybe more) models of Supervent pipe, ...Model JSC (which I have) has 1" walls, ...where the other (that it appears you have, ....I don't know the model# off the top of my head) has the 2" wall.

yes the chimney I have - the Supervent 2100 JM - also see the other specs there - I just assumed it was all the same in that regard - apologies for the noise - thanks for clarifying

lukem · Feb 9, 2010

KevinK said:
jjs777_fzr said:

Can anyone tell us WHY ?

...JJS..., ...As you noted, ...and as per the Supervent Installation instructions, ...." ...DO NOT INSTALL AN OFFSET TO CLEAR THE OVERHANG". It doesn't get any clearer than that, ...that they don't want you/us offsetting outside. Honestly, ...I am not totally sure why....,

Kevin

Click to expand...

Without a ceiling support the chimney cannot support the lateral force created by the offset...that's why you can't do an outdoors offset.

That being said, a guy a couple miles down the road did it...

jjs777_fzr · Sep 22, 2011

I completed the install of my second ClassA SuperVent to my basement 'soon to be' family room.
I used the standard T install kit which includes the basics and then added a roof flashing, collar, angles and a roof support and roof bracing items.
The angles are actually made by a different company - but are IDENTICAL to the supervent pieces except cost hundreds less (no kidding).
My 'first' chimney install is not pictured..but is on the left side of the house with a Century wood burner.

A view from my skylight -

Right now the appliance is a Penn Coal Stove but burning wood as I have a good supply with all the blow downs.

After viewing the pics I realized I am a dad with kids that leave crap everywhere - making for a nice Sanford and Son Kodak moment.

Swedishchef · Sep 22, 2011

Nice pics! Good thing you're not afraid of heights!

Nice install!

ANdrew

CountryBoy19 · Sep 23, 2011

That doesn't appear to be to code to me...

IIRC, it is supposed to extend 2 feet higher than any object within 10 feet. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me you seem to be quite a bit under that...

jjs777_fzr · Sep 23, 2011

CountryBoy19 said:
That doesn't appear to be to code to me...

IIRC, it is supposed to extend 2 feet higher than any object within 10 feet. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me you seem to be quite a bit under that...

Correct - as measured its at nearly 7 feet when measured from the top of the rain cap on a level plane to the roof angle. I have one more 3ft section now and will add that to the overall height. I'll just have to loosen the roof guy clamps as they say to have that positioned on the upper 2/3rds of the stack.
With the additional 3ft section I should be just at the 10ft clearance mark.

In reply to the heights comment - after falling a few years ago and a 4x6 post clamp just missing me in the eyes (punctured lung and scared wife) I wouldn't say I'm afraid of heights - I have a new found respect for heights.
For this job I rehired the contractor that did the framing on this entire addition back in 2006 (27x35ft).
I did however do the punch through the basement concrete wall myself and made it all the way up to the eaves - where the contractor took over.

Thanks for the comments fellas -

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Supervent ???: Wall Thimble and thru eaves question??

KevinK

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ckdeuce

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bag of hammers

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KevinK

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djblech

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KevinK

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jjs777_fzr

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KevinK

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bag of hammers

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lukem

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jjs777_fzr

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CountryBoy19

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