What do you do with a massive heap of coals in the morning?

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nojo

New Member
Dec 22, 2009
224
Western/cent Mass
Still getting used to my Englander-30. I reloaded the thing at 1am a stove top temp of around 4-450 set air about almost an inch from all the way in the house was at about 69. Woke up 8:15 the house was 63. Hows that?

Anyway there were still a bunch of coals in the back and bottom so I raked them into a heap along the center front to back.

1101984945-IMG_3529.JPG-Windows-Picture-and-Fax-Viewer.jpg


Now I dont want to crush down the pile with a split crushed down into it or becuase a lot of it will just end up as small pieces and turn to ash. I figure I can heap it in the middle and just treat it like a log and put wood around it or ontop if there is room. THen go about my business for another 7 hours..

What do you do, do you get big coals like this? should I leave them alone and just throw wood in, or is it correct ot rake them all down hte center like this?
 
On my stove the main air input is above the door, So I rake all of my coals to the front of the stove and put a fresh split or two behind them.
Looks like on your stove the main air input is right at the front center, so I'd throw splits on either side of those coals and let it go!

Devon
 
maybe I am doing it wrong.. but I just throw a couple splits on top of them, and let her go...
 
Folks can do whatever they want . . . but when I have a big old pile of coals like that I tend to throw a split or two on the coals and open up the air and let it burn for a half hour or so . . . keeps the heat levels up in the house and reduces the coals to ash so there's more room in the firebox so I can then reload the firebox and start the cycle over.

However, truth be told, generally I wouldn't reload the firebox at this point . . . usually I wait for the coals to be quite a bit smaller before adding wood for a reload or doing anything special . . . these coals are still pretty large for me.
 
Fresh air enters my Spectrun at the front of the stove just below the door. Each morning I rake the coals from the overnight burn to the front of the stove. Then I fully open the air for about 10 - 15 minutes to get a nice glow going. Place a medium sized split or round facing N/S on each side of the firebox. Then place small kindling between the splits with some larger (1" - 2") pieces above the kindling and supported by the two larger splits.

In about 5 minutes there is a nice fire going. That starts my fire for the day. Afterwards, I just add wood as needed.

Best, John_M
 
On other stoves I would just turn the air up on high for a half hour or so and burn those coals down before reload, so yeah, kinda treat em like a log.
 
nojo said:
I reloaded the thing at 1am a stove top temp of around 4-450 set air about almost an inch from all the way in the house was at about 69. Woke up 8:15 the house was 63. Hows that?
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Sounds like you need to open the air up a little more or get the stove hotter before shutting it down. You would've probably been warmer then 63 in the morning and wouldn't have had such a large coal bed. Of course you loaded at 1am so I would still expect some pretty large chunks.

To burn them down I would rake them to the front and fully open the air. A couple pine pieces will also help burn them down while building some heat.
 
When Ive got a pile like that I can usually just open the air fully an manage to get another hours or so of 500+ temps. Then reload.

Jeremy
 
If you loaded the stove at 1am, and the house dropped that much, it sounds like you are trying to heat too big of an area.

What are your stove top temps when a load like you put on at 1am is at a full bore? I am not sure if it was 400-450 when you loaded the stove or that is what it would hover at w/ the damper 1in open.

If it's 400-450 w/ the air control 1 inch open, you wood is too wet and that's why you are getting too many coals. that stove should turn into a lightbulb w/ that much air and a full load on hot coals if the wood is dry.

Are you using a blower? If not, you might consider one.

pen
 
You've got good advice. We usually open the draft full when the fire gets down to what you have pictured or open it full even sooner and let the coals burn down. The stove will hold the heat while this is happening. We do this on every burn.
 
If I had nice big coals like that I'd rake 'em close to the front door lay a split on 'em and and let the stove rip. Lot of fire power left in those monsters.
 
You need to burn that stove hotter. You should have a warm house and just a few coals in the morning. Leave a little more air open and let that big dog eat and heat. As Mike Holton from ESW told me "It ain't gonna split down the middle.".
 
+1 I have hot coal envy. In 20 years of burning never saw that from my VCDE! Tell me again why I want a new stove?
 
BrotherBart said:
You need to burn that stove hotter. You should have a warm house and just a few coals in the morning. Leave a little more air open and let that big dog eat and heat. As Mike Holton from ESW told me "It ain't gonna split down the middle.".
Click to expand...

It might not split down the middle but I need to repaint mine because my wife kept it open about an inch or so 2 times this winter on a full load and I've got a white spot the size of a football on the top center now and also one the size of a baseball just front of center on each side. I don't have a blower.

The one time I caught it when she put it into the "fires of hell mode" and the IR was reading 900+ (the rutland thermometer's red turned almost black), the other time, only god and the cat know what she was able to get it up to.

I'd say keep those temps under 700 IMO

pen
 
pen said:
If you loaded the stove at 1am, and the house dropped that much, it sounds like you are trying to heat too big of an area.

What are your stove top temps when a load like you put on at 1am is at a full bore? I am not sure if it was 400-450 when you loaded the stove or that is what it would hover at w/ the damper 1in open.
Click to expand...

When I load the stove it depends on how hot it already is, after a while I can get it up past 450 but it takes all day and a bit of re-arranging of wood.

My thermostat on the wall is my thermometer, and its sort of in a bad spot for air circulation, so it could be a few deg warmer than i stated. I am heating 1800 sq ft. 1/3 of which is closed off for renovation. No insulation in the attic floor/2nd story cieling yet either. The 4-500 range was with the stove air at 1" from closed.

If I open the air all the way should it be like a blast furnace? Because its not anywhere close at all. If I crack the door just a hair I can get the thing to blast real good.

My smaller stove blasted with the air open inlet, this thing is just burning like ms daisy.

If it's 400-450 w/ the air control 1 inch open, you wood is too wet and that's why you are getting too many coals. that stove should turn into a lightbulb w/ that much air and a full load on hot coals if the wood is dry.

Are you using a blower? If not, you might consider one.
Click to expand...

No blower, I'd like one but I literally have $40 to my name right now. I just had to buy a new truck and all that. If I can get someone to by the pedistal mount I can probably scrape enough to get a blower! :)

Wood is dry. Its the same wood Ive been using all along I dont get much hissing from it. Good secondaries. but still getting a bunch of smoke at 11am (2 1/2 hours later) with this stove. wtf? My other stove same wood, no smoke after 15-20 min...

I've been trying to run the thing hard since 8:30 this morning. Air open, good dry wood around the coals. THe stove wouldnt get past 350 stove top. I fooled around with the wood it got up to 400. I cracked the door just a hair and it started blazing and temps shot up and soon buried my stovetop thermometer that goes to 600, flue temps came up to about 700. I shut the door with air open the secondaries sucked air and blaze rolled for about 2 minutes then the stove was running slow as hell again like I was feeding zero air. If I had a draft problem this thing wouldnt pull air through the door with it just barely cracked like it does. I can tell that the airway IS opening all the way and the rod is not bent or anything...

I tell you what the flue temps on my magentic thermometer on this stove never go past 350 with the door shut. I've verified with multi meter temp prob. Most of the time they are around 275deg while the stove can be at 400. I CAN get the stove to burn real well if I've been burning all day in it. I am fairly annoyed with this stoves performance.
 
If I open the air all the way should it be like a blast furnace? Because its not anywhere close at all. If I crack the door just a hair I can get the thing to blast real good.
Click to expand...

it depends on where it is in the burn cycle. If I loaded the stove on good hot coals and left the air open, the thing would max out any thermometer I have on the stove top.

When was this wood cut, split and stacked?

I am not insulting your wood, but just really think it is not as dry as it should be.

The only other fault could be the chimney if it's too large in diameter, not insulated, too short, or has a plugged cap.

pen
 
pen said:
If I open the air all the way should it be like a blast furnace? Because its not anywhere close at all. If I crack the door just a hair I can get the thing to blast real good.
Click to expand...

it depends on where it is in the burn cycle. If I loaded the stove on good hot coals and left the air open, the thing would max out any thermometer I have on the stove top.

When was this wood cut, split and stacked?

I am not insulting your wood, but just really think it is not as dry as it should be.

The only other fault could be the chimney if it's too large in diameter, not insulated, too short, or has a plugged cap.

pen
Click to expand...

The wood that I have had been split and stacked for two years by a friend and some that was here on the property already split and stacked when I bought the house a year ago.

The chimney is an outdoor 33ft masonry tile lined flue, tiles are 6 1/2 x 11.
 
i rake the coals forward in the morning so they are heaping by the door, then i leave the door open a crack while i shower.
come back to the stove 15 min later and the pile has reduced substantially and the firebox is a bit warmer too.
 
nojo said:
The wood that I have had been split and stacked for two years by a friend and some that was here on the property already split and stacked when I bought the house a year ago.

The chimney is an outdoor 33ft masonry tile lined flue, tiles are 6 1/2 x 11.
Click to expand...

Unless that wood was sitting in a swamp, it most certainly should be seasoned.

Your chimney is nice and tall, but unfortunately quite wide. I think your problem is that you are losing draft as a result of the large cross section your chimney has.

The stove has a 6in exit and has a cross sectional area of 28 1/4.

The chimney is obviously 71.5 sq inches.

that a ratio of of 2.53. Your englander manual says not to exceed a difference of 2.5. When the gases move from the smaller flue pipe to the much larger chimney, they lose temp dramatically as they expand and as a result, draft is reduced.

I think your best bet is to add a liner to that chimney. Then that englander will throw the heat .

These stoves depend on getting their fresh air brought into them by the hot air pulling it in from the exhaust gases going up the chimney. W/out this strong draft, these things just don't perform. In addition to being at the maximum of size, it is also exterior, which means it says cooler since it's exposed to the elements. If it were an interior chimney, you may have been OK.

I'd say line and insulate the chimney or go to a stove with an 8in stove collar.

pen
 
You've had good advice for what to do with the massive heap of coals. If you don't want that massive heap,
you need to burn hotter and for a longer cycle. I would have a similar heap if I loaded my stove up at 1 a.m.
My last load goes in between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m., and I have just enough coals to reload at 6 a.m.
 
I load mine about 10:30 then I reload just before I leave for work at 5:30am,, If I bank it down too much I get too cold a burn and large chunks,, sometimes not even glowing.. air vents 1/2 way seem just right.. room still warm,, chimney pipe still up above 150-almost 200.. so decent.
 
When I get up at 5am I mix the coals around and load her up. Usually she catches pretty quick. During the day when the coals get to that size is when I reload.
 
A couple of excerpts from the Englander 30 Manual

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/30-NC.pdf



Page 4:

WHY THE CORRECT FLUE SIZE IS IMPORTANT: 6”

The design of your new appliance is such that the exhaust “smoke” is now at lower temperatures than
in the past, therefore requiring proper chimney size to give adequate draft. If your chimney is too
large, the heater will have a difficult time raising the temperature of the flue enough to provide
adequate draft, which can cause a "smoke back," poor burn, or both.

Page 5:

2. Flue Size
The proper flue size is determined by measuring the inside diameter of the flue collar on the unit.
This stove is equipped with a six inch (6”) TOP EXHAUST FLUE COLLAR. Therefore, the connector
pipe should be six inches (6”) and never less in diameter than the collar on the stove. Your unit may
require an adapter (AC-1677) which will reduce the 6” connector pipe by 1/8”. This is necessary to
accommodate pipe variation from different manufacturers and maintain a good seal. The area of the
chimney liner must also be equal to or greater than the area of the flue collar on the stove. If the area
of the flue is greater than the collar, it should never be more than two and 1/2 (2.5) times greater.
The black connector pipe should be 24 gauge steel and sixteen inches (16.0”) from a combustible
wall or eighteen inches (18.0”) from a combustible ceiling. This clearance can be reduced by using
double wall or single wall stovepipe shields.
Click to expand...
 
BrotherBart said:
You need to burn that stove hotter. You should have a warm house and just a few coals in the morning. Leave a little more air open and let that big dog eat and heat. As Mike Holton from ESW told me "It ain't gonna split down the middle.".
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Only time that's ever happened to me, either I loaded it too full and shut the air down too soon, or else wood got locked high up in the firebox and burned out below. Obviously, the second scenario didn't happen to you, not with the way your coals are laying. What happened is you just distilled all the volatiles out of the wood at a low temp and turned the wood to charcoal. Plenty of heat left in them, though. Like most said, put a few small splits of your driest wood on top to get some flame to draw air through the coals. You might need to repeat it a few times.

Or do what I do and smother 'em in a covered can for next summer's BBQ. Used to be the only way to get real lump charcoal instead of those disgusting briquette things.
 
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