Is buying a considerable bigger stove for the space intended to heat a good idea .Example:heating 1200 square feet with a stove rated to heat 2500 sq.ft.
is bigger better?
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BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
sw mariner said:
That depends on your climate, your floor plan (open floor plan or a bunch of smaller rooms), and how tight your house is in terms or insulation and draft.
dispatcher101
Member
just remember that the figure provided by the manufacturer is optimistic. The actual output will be affected by altitude and wood choice. It's been said a million times on the forum and I'm sure it'll be said another million times. 'its easier to build a smaller fire in a big stove than to over fire a smaller stove'
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
woodracerx
New Member
I went bigger than I thought I should when we bought the northstar and have be very pleased with it.When it gets very cold it really is nice to have the extra capacity. Just got last months gas bill. 53.00 bucks thats for hot water, cooking and the few times the ng furance kicked on.
new house,built in 09. witer climate temps 0 to minus 12 celcius average....current stove located in open basement .........heats house well until temperature dips down much below -5. Looking to replace stove with a larger one .I think the statement is true:"You can build a small fire in a big stove but you can't built a big fire in a small one"
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
The only real downside of an oversized stove is overheating the space or building smaller fires and potentially not burning the stove in its optimal range. I like the big catalytic stove because you can load it up regardless of the heat demand. No need for small fires and it burns clean low enough to not overheat the space.
Todd
Minister of Fire
Good rule of thumb for northern climates is to knock off about 30% off most of the manufactures sq ft heating specs.
thanks for all the help.......you've made my decicion ....seems i can't go wrong with having a bigger stove installed
Depends where the stove is, layout of the house and home location(among other things) I have a medium sized Endeavor in my family room, it was between this stove and the bigger Liberty. My stove is rated for 2000 sq ft and I'm heating 1950 with it. I think the Liberty would cook us out of the room or lower level of the house if we burned the Liberty cleanly on all but a few really cold days of the winter. The bigger stove would have also had a larger footprint which we didn't want since the room is only 11x16.
In your case with the stove in the basement I see little risk of overheating the main living space with an over-sized stove.
In your case with the stove in the basement I see little risk of overheating the main living space with an over-sized stove.
Is the basement well sealed and insulated? If not, a bigger stove will work, it will heat the dirt out 6ft from the house instead of 3ft.
If your stove is non-cat it will be difficult to throttle it down and still burn clean (1100 f min firebox temp.). With the cat you can turn it to low and still be clean (500 f min cat temp.) so use an extra large cat stove or close to the size you will need in the non-cat. So, you are left building small/short hot fires in the large non-cat or small/long not so hot fires in the cat to burn clean and avoid overheating your smaller home.
It's nice to have a bigger hammer when you need it, but not if it's your only hammer. I believe in matching most things in life to the size required for the job at hand, so I guess that applies to stoves as well. Problem is, how do you determine what is the proper size? Square footage ratings just won't cut it, because your square feet are unique.
I had several friends that got VC Defiants back in the 70s and early 80s, all based on the "bigger is better" idea. Most of them never got their stoves to run in the sweet spot since this would have had them running around in their underwear. Major creosote problems trying to get overnight burns without baking themselves. Sure, in the daytime you can build a small fire in a big box and get some good warmth, but a good stove is optimized for a particular load size, and that's where it burns best. Going too big is not ideal IMO.
That said, as a basement heater myself, I know you will need a larger stove than a living room heater would ever consider. Even though my basement is well insulated (and you will need to do that), the slab itself (and all the dirt below it) sucks up a major amount of heat. My Vigilant does the job because my house is small and I have an interior masonry chimney, but I think you will need something bigger.
I'd pay a pro to look at your situation and make a recommendation about a particular stove, not necessarily a particular size. My local stove shop has top notch technicians and they don't charge a penny to stop by and give advice when they have the time.
I had several friends that got VC Defiants back in the 70s and early 80s, all based on the "bigger is better" idea. Most of them never got their stoves to run in the sweet spot since this would have had them running around in their underwear. Major creosote problems trying to get overnight burns without baking themselves. Sure, in the daytime you can build a small fire in a big box and get some good warmth, but a good stove is optimized for a particular load size, and that's where it burns best. Going too big is not ideal IMO.
That said, as a basement heater myself, I know you will need a larger stove than a living room heater would ever consider. Even though my basement is well insulated (and you will need to do that), the slab itself (and all the dirt below it) sucks up a major amount of heat. My Vigilant does the job because my house is small and I have an interior masonry chimney, but I think you will need something bigger.
I'd pay a pro to look at your situation and make a recommendation about a particular stove, not necessarily a particular size. My local stove shop has top notch technicians and they don't charge a penny to stop by and give advice when they have the time.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
snowtime
Minister of Fire
I agree its BS. In my case now that i have learned the ins and outs of the T6 I can say that its easy to have a hot fire or not so hot fire. If its cold out and i need lots of heat i just reload on 400 or above the stove then goes to 750 or 800 and throws the heat. If its not so cold i just let the stove die to 150 or so and throw a couple of big splits on it and turn it all the way down as soon as the splits are started. The stove will not get above 500 usually and thats just for a short time. Because i let the stove cool to 150 it lasts along time on just 2 splits. You just need a stove that is easy to operate and does not have to have any "sweat spot" to keep you warm. I do not worry about secondary burn or how beautiful it looks. Just worry about heating comfort. By the way most times when I look up at the chimney I can not see any smoke and I only clean once a year and then could probably go another year.
I also do not understand this loading up for overnight and blowing you away with heat. Just load when you go to bed if you sleep in the stove room then theres a problem but otherwise its not important that the stove room gets a little hot. It will cool off by morning.
I also do not understand this loading up for overnight and blowing you away with heat. Just load when you go to bed if you sleep in the stove room then theres a problem but otherwise its not important that the stove room gets a little hot. It will cool off by morning.
WidowMaker
Member
Hogwildz said:
Yes, you most certainly can have too big a stove. I have a Jotul Oslo heating 2500 sq. ft. and there are about four weeks in the fall and another four in the spring where it would be nice to have supplemental heat; but to keep the Oslo going at even a minimal level pushes the thermometer up to 80 deg. inside. A smaller stove would be nice for that period, but would not be sufficient for a good part of the winter. A larger stove would mean another week, maybe two on each end when it could not be used. If I had only 1200 sq. ft. to heat I might be able to use my stove only a few weeks each winter.
For a non-cat epa rated stove to operate efficiently it must achieve and hold a certain internal temperature. It does not matter if the stove is packed full of wood, or only has a couple of matchsticks, the box must still be above the critical temperature or the secondary burn will go out and creosote formation will begin. That energy will be transferred to the surface of the box (in the case of my Jotul, about 325 deg. f.), which in turn will predetermine the minimum btu output of the stove. To stay with the Jotul example, a Castine can generate fewer btus/hr. than an Oslo while remaining within its operating perameters. An Oslo can likewise generate fewer than the Firelight. It is simply a matter of the internal temperature and the amount of radiant surface area on the stove.
Now, you can "BS" all you want, but if you insist on it your problem is with the laws of physics, not with me or the stove builder.
Yes, you can build a smaller fire. You can let it sit there and smoulder and smoke, building up deposits in your chiminey and smoking out the neighborhood. But it cannot be argued that it is a smart way to go. In many stoves, including mine, you can deal with the issue but opening the front door and using it like a fireplace, which will let a lot of excess heat go up the chimney.
Cat stoves operate differently, of course. With them, the key is not the internal box temperature, but rather the temperature of the cat. As long as the cat keeps its temperature hot enough you can allow the box to drop to a much lower temperature than you can with a non-cat stove.
iceman
Minister of Fire
i operate my non cat stove pretty much the same, whether it has a full load or not... so i am confused about creosote forming?..... regardless of how much is in it i let the stove get hot/warm (4-500) and throttle down with 2-4 splits, my secondaries go just fine.. if i pack it in i usually go 450-600 before i throttle down.... my shoulder season is oct-nov, end of march -april.... however the last couple of days its been getting close to 40 so i have been using a couple of splits and getting 6-8 hr burns and keeping the house very comfortable. I only clean my chinmey at the end of the season and barely get anything outta of it... so for me there is no creosote buildup from running smaller loads... and that is with wood thats mc varies... it hasnt all been sitting for 2 + years...
so in the end, can creosote form .. -of course but once you learn your stove it wont be a problem with a big stove burning a little fire!
when it comes to the OP, up there where he is gets real cold... buy the biggest that fits your budget! if/when you ever lose power you will thank me, not that smaller stoves are bad, but if you had nothing else but that stove for heat, and everything went down you would really appreciate the bigger one
so in the end, can creosote form .. -of course but once you learn your stove it wont be a problem with a big stove burning a little fire!
when it comes to the OP, up there where he is gets real cold... buy the biggest that fits your budget! if/when you ever lose power you will thank me, not that smaller stoves are bad, but if you had nothing else but that stove for heat, and everything went down you would really appreciate the bigger one
bogydave
Minister of Fire
You can build a bigger fire in a bigger stove.
You can build a smaller fire in a bigger stove
You can't build a bigger fire in a smaller stove.
Global warming/climate change, we got extremes this years.
El Niño / La Niña you never know
Sometime you may want to build a bigger fire
Bigger stove!
You can build a smaller fire in a bigger stove
You can't build a bigger fire in a smaller stove.
Global warming/climate change, we got extremes this years.
El Niño / La Niña you never know
Sometime you may want to build a bigger fire
Bigger stove!
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
jotul8e2 said:
I suggest you learn how to burn your stove properly then.
Physics or no physics, I can burn a small load, with less btu output over a longer period of time.
And still obtain secondary and NO smoke out the stack.
I know my stove, and how to burn it. Hot, or not so hot. I can burn the load cleanly either way.
I have posted my cleanings( one time per year, for the last 3 or 4 seasons at least. The first season I burnt less than optimal wood, and cleaned it 2x.
I get about a mason jar of brown fine fly ash. And that includes smaller loads during the shoulder seasons. And yes these while not at 200 or 300 degrees, are still lower burns than say 550 and up.I speak from experinece, not my ass. Sorry you ain't gonna tell me what my stove can & can't do, when I have the proof posted in photos.
When you learn your stove a lil better, you may understand then.
In the time I have belonged to this forum since 2006, I remember seeing many posts from folks that bought a smaller stove and regretted it.
I don't remember one post of someone complaining their stove was too big.
soupy1957
Minister of Fire
For "me" as a married guy.........the wife's "desires" were a HUGE part of our decision about what stove to buy........but purely from a fundamental point of view, I'd look at where it's going. How much room do you have? I'd look at a front AND side loader (there are times when it's easier to have the option of which direction you load from). I'd buy a fire box that was able to accept logs that are 20+, because the guy you buy wood from, who tells you that all the splits are 16 - 18 inches maximum length, is probably lying to you, and you're gonna end up with a ring full of 20+ inch cuts out of that load, and won't be able to burn em.
In short, any box size will do, as long as you have room for it, and the bigger the better. You can always build a smaller fire in a big stove that is still hot enough to keep the creosote levels down (provided the wood you're burning is dry and seasoned, and you're not burning trash).
-Soupy1957
In short, any box size will do, as long as you have room for it, and the bigger the better. You can always build a smaller fire in a big stove that is still hot enough to keep the creosote levels down (provided the wood you're burning is dry and seasoned, and you're not burning trash).
-Soupy1957
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
Hogwildz said:
+1. Moosetrek's was probably the closest to a complaint and he resolved it by buying an equally big replacement. As far as the never ending cat/non cat debate, there is a place for both and both perform far better at low burn with dry wood. My current stove is much bigger than the old one with the ability to burn both higher and a lot lower. This is great because it sits in a room with 300 sq ft of south facing glass on a windy ridge that has huge swings in heat demand. The bigger stove has also completely eliminated even thinking about getting up before I am good and ready.
iceman
Minister of Fire
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
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