Prefab Fireplace: rip it out?

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northwinds

northwinds

Minister of Fire
Jul 9, 2006
1,452
south central WI
I'm continuing to explore wood heat ideas for the house I'm buying in a few weeks. I've abandoned the idea of putting in a
very small wood insert in the very small wood-burning prefab fireplace with the gas log.

In the process of continuing to examine my options, I've scrutinized several threads (with photos) from hearth.com contributors who have
successfully removed a prefab fireplace and put in a wood stove. Until a week ago, this seemed beyond my abilities. However, a good friend
who does artistic metalwork for a living and is pretty handy in general has volunteered to help me with this project. What I'm thinking about
is putting a Woodstock Fireview in the living room and having the new Class A chimney going up through the existing chase. The space on
the main level is 1200 feet. I'm thinking about either doing a pellet stove or gas stove with direct vent to heat the finished, insulated lower
level, where we will not be spending a great deal of time.

Looking at the photos, does anyone see any big issues jumping out which will make installation of the Fireview problematic? What I'm
thinking is that we'll need to remove the firebox, chimney, elevated hearth and stone facing and open that area up. The living room flooring
is going to be changed out to hardwood as soon as we get in, so this will be the time to do it if we're going to put in a stove and stove hearth upstairs.

What other issues do I need to be looking at? You can see the chase on the outside view. And, yes, Dixie. these are the same pics that I posted before. :) I want to make sure I'm making the best choices with what I've got to work with. Am I wrong in thinking that if one of those big prefab fireplace chimneys fit in the chase, I shouldn't have any problems with clearances with the appropriate 2100 degree Class A in the chase, correct? I have a lot of confidence in my friend building this to code, but does anyone see any red flags?
 

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I ripped out a similar set up two years ago. Ended up tearing the chase off due to water damage. I moved my set up to a corner. From what I understand you are creating an alcove? If so be sure to check for the change in clearances for an alcove install. Reguardless it will look nice in there. Very nice place by the way!
 
Yes.

ok, apperently, just Yes, is not long enough to make the forum software..

so again, Yes.
 
Go for it. If you plan a lot and think things through you should be able to make it not stick too far into the room. If your'e wondering how well it heats: I am only on my 2nd week with the fireview and love it!! I have a similar sized house (1500-1600sq ft) and the stove sits in a 850sq ft area with 8' ceilings pointing directly at the hallway for the bedrooms. So far with nights in the teens (single digits last night) and days in the 20's all I needed to heat the whole house (except basement)has been one big fire at about 7pm and a half load at 4am the house has not dropped below 70 in the bedrooms yet and the heat is OFF! My wood isn't the best either. My place waas built in 1983. If you are "thinking" about doing this do yourself a favor and start collecting wood NOW even if your unsure. I regret not doing that 4 years ago when I was kicking around the idea. Whats the worst that could happen? You don't put one in then have a bunch of wood on hand you can always sell.

------JUST DO IT-----
 
gasavage said:
I ripped out a similar set up two years ago. Ended up tearing the chase off due to water damage. I moved my set up to a corner. From what I understand you are creating an alcove? If so be sure to check for the change in clearances for an alcove install. Reguardless it will look nice in there. Very nice place by the way!
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to think through what's possible with regard to what I'll be creating. If I open that space up, I think I'll have an alcove, won't I?
I've never had one before in a house. :) I can't find anything about alcoves in the fireview owner's manual. The big clearance would seem
to be the 30" behind the stove, which I would be able to get if it was opened up. But then if I'm in the alcove, then I would imagine the 18"
side clearance comes into play. I was also kicking around different ideas about using masonry brick to reduce clearances. On page 5
of the owner's manual, they talk about building a brick surround around a tile liner, and that looks really interesting to me.

Thanks for the compliment on the place. For a lot of reasons, I'm anxious to get in there. I'll be able to walk to town (now a
ten minute drive), and my lot changes from 1/3 acre to 2.5 acres.

Dakota's Dad: Thanks for the affirmative.

Chadwylde: Your threads and rip-out helped motivate me in this direction. What do I have to lose? a torn up house, divorce, agony, and
despair? But I'd really like to go for it. While I've enjoyed my basement install in the current house, our living patterns will be more
focused to the main level in the next house. And while I will have worries if I go this route, wood will not be one of the concerns.
I still have ten split and seasoned cords at the current location waiting to be transported seven miles to the new location.
 
Are you thinking of basically ripping it all out and using the area that is currrenlty inside the rectangular area of the insode of the chase as usable space to make an alcove? If that's the case, then you may have some issues with a) what is the exterior wall of the chase and b) how / what to do with the top of the chase. Is the top of it water proof and roofed in any way? Maybe I've got the idea all wrong... If you're thinking of just ripping it out and basically building a hearth pad to put the stove on, that's prolly just fine. I'm not really getting what you want to do with the area in behind.
 
You forgot wailing and gnashing of teeth...a requirement for house projects...LOL. I always look for the easiest re-model.
The stone is quite handsome - hate to mess with it. I'd be thinking:
1. Pull prefab unit out and see what you got - you may have just subfloor and inside of uninsulated chase. Maybe not even subfloor - maybe 2 joists holding up FP.
2. May be able to put insert (if clearances allow) or Zero Clearance FP there.
3. Is current chimney pipe 8", 11"? If big enough - maybe a liner inside it? Or pull old chimney and put in liner inside of chase? (check liner clearances)
Can you take closeup pic of FP/hearth? It's too nice an area not to give you some serious heat.
 
KB007 said:
Are you thinking of basically ripping it all out and using the area that is currrenlty inside the rectangular area of the insode of the chase as usable space to make an alcove? If that's the case, then you may have some issues with a) what is the exterior wall of the chase and b) how / what to do with the top of the chase. Is the top of it water proof and roofed in any way? Maybe I've got the idea all wrong... If you're thinking of just ripping it out and basically building a hearth pad to put the stove on, that's prolly just fine. I'm not really getting what you want to do with the area in behind.
Click to expand...

Probably because I'm not quite sure how it's going to work or whether it's feasible. I'm looking for ideas. I just know I don't like the prefab
fireplace, and it's too small for anything other than the very smallest wood inserts. I like freestanding stoves for heat better than inserts.
And the prefab epa fireplaces are expensive as hell, will require a complete tear-out, and still require a fan to move heat around. If the space
can't be used as an alcove, then I'm interested in building a hearth pad to put the stove on and sending the Class A chimney up the existing chase.
 
dougand3 said:
You forgot wailing and gnashing of teeth...a requirement for house projects...LOL. I always look for the easiest re-model.
The stone is quite handsome - hate to mess with it. I'd be thinking:
1. Pull prefab unit out and see what you got - you may have just subfloor and inside of uninsulated chase. Maybe not even subfloor - maybe 2 joists holding up FP.
2. May be able to put insert (if clearances allow) or Zero Clearance FP there.
3. Is current chimney pipe 8", 11"? If big enough - maybe a liner inside it? Or pull old chimney and put in liner inside of chase? (check liner clearances)
Can you take closeup pic of FP/hearth? It's too nice an area not to give you some serious heat.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking #1. I'm not thinking #2 because the firebox is too small for anything other than the very smallest inserts. I've shopped
the Zero clearance fireplaces, and the quotes have been expensive. I'm used to a freestanding stove and don't think I'd like to rely
on fans pushing the heat. As for #3, I'm pretty sure the chimney isn't rated to 2100, so a liner to a stove isn't going to meet code
as far as I've been able to research. It's a big cheap air cooled chimney from what I can tell without current access to the roof.

I can take lots of pictures in a month, but won't have free access until then.
 
Bring dynamite, and a crane. Blow it up and start all over again.

Before bringing in the wrecking crew. Live in the house a month or two. Look at all possibilities, including not having the stove located there. It's worth thinking about where the ideal location would be if doing it from scratch.
 
I just had something very similar completed in my house (well almost completed, still have to finish some stone work). We pulled the siding off the chase behind the old heatilator, unscrewed the plywood, rebraced the middle stud near the top of the opening and cut it out below. We then pulled the old prefab unit straight out the back. My old prefab was just resting on 2 joists. After making a few small height adjustments for the new unit, we slid the Northstar in, reconnected the existing flu, connected the outside air supplies, and buttoned everything back up.

I had ordered sandstone to fill in the gaps on top and on the sides of the Northstar as it is not quite as big as the Heatilator we pulled out. Other than that, nothing needed done to the hearth or surrounding brick.
 
You really won't know what you have until you're abel to peek behind the prefab. I actually had a subfloor on top of 4 joists. My chase was fully insulated except for the gaping hole leading over to my attic (essentially negating any effect the insulation had). I had the air cooled chimney too, but it would probably be best for you to rip that out & install the correct stuff with the proper shielding & supports. The brick surround shielding would look great. Having the stove just far enough out of the alcove to meet the corner clearances is an idea too. Are you able to look under your chase from the exterior to get an idea of what you have?
 
gasavage said:
Are you able to look under your chase from the exterior to get an idea of what you have?
Click to expand...

I'll have full access after 3/18. BeGreen is right. I need to just sit and wait until I've been in the house awhile. I'm not a patient
person by nature. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures when I get in. These are photos from the original mls house listing.
 
Take your time, I changed my mind on the stove brand, type, install location a lot and wasn't able to fully make up my mind until the demo was done and I could see where everything was at, then I was 100% certain what I wanted to do would work. My plans changed a lot when I got the demo done and yours may too. Took me probably 2-3months of staring, thinking, and measuring...
 
This may be option D or 5 or 6 for you, but it is an idea nonetheless.

You could:
1) Build out a hearth pad when you remove the carpet and are installing hardwood floors
2) Leave the prefab firebox, chase, and flue piping
3) Run an insulated ss liner rated to 2100F down the existing metal air-cooled pipe - research Magna-flex
4) Place a freestanding stove on your new correctly sized hearth pad
5) Hook up the rear venting stove to a T located in your old firebox
6) Call it a day

:D What do you think?
 
CJRages said:
This may be option D or 5 or 6 for you, but it is an idea nonetheless.

You could:
1) Build out a hearth pad when you remove the carpet and are installing hardwood floors
2) Leave the prefab firebox, chase, and flue piping
3) Run an insulated ss liner rated to 2100F down the existing metal air-cooled pipe - research Magna-flex
4) Place a freestanding stove on your new correctly sized hearth pad
5) Hook up the rear venting stove to a T located in your old firebox
6) Call it a day

:D What do you think?
Click to expand...

It sure would make things a lot easier, but I don't think it's permitted. While there are some inserts approved for liners
through air-cooled pipe, I don't think there are stoves approved for running that liner through the air-cooled pipe and then
through the firebox and then to the stove on the hearth pad. I like the way you think though.

I asked the local stove dealer (jtp's place) a few weeks ago about that type of installation. I was told that people do it that
way, but that the dealer wouldn't do it that way. In fact, she knew of one installation that needed to be ripped out after
insurance concerns.
 
Looking at the pic again you might consider ripping out the old pre-fab and re-building the back wall with a pretty looking heat shield. If you can (call woodstock and ask) put a masonry thimble in the shield you could do a straight out vent to a tee and up from there. Only problem is you may have to design (I know I would) an accsess door possibly from the outside of the chase for inspection and cleaning. Depending on how close cumbustibles are away from the back of the stove (wall heat sheild only requires 12") you may be able to have the stove only stick out 3' (like my install) or less into the room! And with the minumun 8" ctc for the front of the stove, it'll take up less space than a Hearthstone ;-)
 
That will be one of the possibilities I'll be looking at when I get into the house.
 
Awww, don't let a little thing like "haven't closed on property yet" keep you from going over with sledges and pry bars for some action. LOL
Understand wanting a freestander. Adding to good ideas above...
1. Remove prefab and double wall stove pipe. Floor bottom of chase, if necessary.
2. Remove elevated hearth and build a less tall, bigger surface area hearth for a rear exit flue freestander (match vertical stone? complimentary tile?)
3. Build a 2x4 frame 4-5 feet from bottom of chase and install ceiling support box - class A chimney to raincap and stove pipe with elbows to stove. A steel surround with hole for stove pipe covers old prefab opening. (This may be outside code re: CSB in a chase. But if clearances of 18" for single wall stove pipe and 2" for class A chimney are observed - seems safe enough. 18" may be a problem on high side entering old prefab opening.)
 
Thanks for the ideas. I'm driving my wife crazy going in about a hundred directions right now. I better get out
in the woods and cut wood. :)
 
northwinds said:
gasavage said:
Are you able to look under your chase from the exterior to get an idea of what you have?
Click to expand...

I'll have full access after 3/18. BeGreen is right. I need to just sit and wait until I've been in the house awhile. I'm not a patient
person by nature. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures when I get in. These are photos from the original mls house listing.
Click to expand...

I have never regretted waiting a little bit before making big changes in a new house. It takes living in it a while to see how the light works, where the nicest views are and what works best for your lifestyle. Often this can be quite different from the previous occupant's. In our house there was a nice central fireplace at the core of the house. Problem was that this is view property and because of the location of the fireplace all the furniture had to be placed back to the windows, facing the fireplace and away from the windows. It also put the furniture on the colder outer walls. An earthquake settled the issue for me. There was no way I was going to use the old chimney system after that. Out it came, the entire thing. Now our floorplan is reversed and it works great. The stove has a corner hearth, with the flue going straight up inside. It heats great and is a nice focal point along with the window views.
 
I just had my Prefab Fireplace ripped out and had a Zero clearance EPA fireplace installed (Osburn Stratford). Its a great unit for the price and puts out some heat. The unit itself was only about $2,000. WELL worth the money. I shopped every ZC fireplace there is, and I felt you just couldnt beat the Osburn for the money. 2.5 cubic ft firebox is heating my 2,500 sq ft pretty well excpet for my bedroom which is upstairs and on the other side of the house, but I wasnt expecting it either. So far its beat my expectations.
 
Rip it out and do it right for peace of mind. I like what Dakotas Dad did with his prefab.
 
I like what Dakota's Dad did too. But he had brick walls behind the prefab. I have a feeling that I would have more
work to do behind my prefab. 17 days till closing.
 
northwinds said:
I like what Dakota's Dad did too. But he had brick walls behind the prefab. I have a feeling that I would have more
work to do behind my prefab. 17 days till closing.
Click to expand...

I think it would depend on what stove you pick out and what it's clearance needs are. My install could have been done even if I had a wood chase.

For MY stove, with rear heat shield and double wall flue, my rear clearance to a protected wall is 7"(or actually now that I look in that column an unprotected one also) and a quick check shows that my stove back is about 14" from the combustible wall you would have to deal with. The double wall flue would also get me 10" on the side, while the single wall gets me 12" which is almost exactly what I have. My chimney is the triple wall insulated duraplus, it allows 2" clearance to combustibles, pretty easy if your chimney is up the center of the chase and your chase is at least 14" inside front to back. and side to side. Ours was about 18".
 
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