Cat vs Noncat

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imacheezhead

imacheezhead

Member
Feb 27, 2010
63
Southern Wisconsin
Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and it looks like I'm going to be here a lot. Other forums I've tried don't seem to be very responsive. Well anyway here is one of my questions.

I've had my Consolidated Dutchwest Federal Airtight for about 22 years now and I am very pleased with it. This is the medium size FA264 model that uses a catalytic combustor. I was wondering that if I had to replace this stove should I get a noncat model? I replace my combustor about every 3 or 4 years. I pay about $120.00 for them which I don't consider too bad when I consider the money I'm saving by burning wood, so that to me is not really an issue. The stove itself has been relatively low maintenace. I had to replace the shaker grates and the combustor baffle once. About 10 years ago I totally disassembled the stove to re-cement all of the joints.

Are noncat stoves cleaner? do they put out more heat? Can you maintain a fire in a noncat as long as in a cat stove? I've read in several places that you can have parts of the stove related to the recycling section go bad every 2 or 3 years.

Thanks, Jim
 
I bet if you searched these forums you'll find a millions posts answering your exact questions. Cat stoves burn cleaner, cat/non cat about the same heat per cubic foot of firebox. cat stoves burn longer, non cat stoves are easier to operate for most folks, non cat stoves may cost less over a 10 year span to maintain (if you buy a decent one that has a lifetime warranty on the baffles, etc)
 
What Franks said is accurate.
 
Welcome to the forum Jim.

Both type stoves are good for sure. When we bought we had been against the cat stoves after hearing some horror stories. Long story short; we bought a cat stove and it is the best stove we've ever owned. The company is the best we've ever dealt with

One thing that always bothered me was so many folks saying their non-cat stove did not work right unless you had a pretty good sized load in. That would turn me off right away. Also so many have problems when trying to burn low; glass darkening, chimney getting tons of creosote, etc. I like the fact that we can just dampen our stove down and let it smolder and/or just put in a couple splits and it will give just enough heat in the warmer temperatures like you get in spring and fall. Best of all I like the cat stove because the cat burns smoke, burns clean and we have no creosote problems and our glass and stove stay clean. I cleaned the chimney after 2 winters burning 24/7 and got less than a cup of soot from the chimney. Most folks seem to get that much in a month or less. I also like the fact that we now burn only half the amount of wood we used to and stay much warmer.

So which type to buy? I think it is mostly a matter of what your heart desires. As for me I am very happy with the cat stove and if we ever buy another one it too will probably be a cat stove. I also love the soapstone stove with its soft heat and great looks.

Good luck in your quest.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
One thing that always bothered me was so many folks saying their non-cat stove did not work right unless you had a pretty good sized load in.
Click to expand...

I've never heard that one.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Best of all I like the cat stove because the cat burns smoke, burns clean and we have no creosote problems and our glass and stove stay clean. I cleaned the chimney after 2 winters burning 24/7 and got less than a cup of soot from the chimney. Most folks seem to get that much in a month or less.
Click to expand...

I know non-cat owners that have the same success with a non-cat stove.
 
Sad, but I've had several folks tell me this. Perhaps they just don't understand how to use the stove?! But even on this forum we read about folks loading up the stove in spring and fall, some even during the winter and they report temperatures in the 40's. They load up the stove and then roast. Holy cow, we can roast with those temperatures by just having a decent coal bed.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Sad, but I've had several folks tell me this. Perhaps they just don't understand how to use the stove?! But even on this forum we read about folks loading up the stove in spring and fall, some even during the winter and they report temperatures in the 40's. They load up the stove and then roast. Holy cow, we can roast with those temperatures by just having a decent coal bed.
Click to expand...

I'll chalk it up to operator error. I'll give you three examples: Me (old Vigilant), my neighbor (non-cat Fireview), my father in-law (Heritage)

Vigilant runs fine with just a few splits in it. In fact it will get quite hot, quite quickly. Burn time is short, but that is due to it being an old stove.

Neighbors non-cat Fireview; during shoulder season he'll throw a split in and let it burn at a low temp for hours.

Father in-laws Heritage; He does the same thing during shoulder. Throws in a split and it burns at a low temp throughout the day.
 
Yep. For the last week with temps in the high thirties and low forties I burn three splits in the morning and then bank the coals until sundown and the mass of the stove and the coals keep the place in the mid seventies all day until dark. Probably longer but I always lose my guts at sundown and get afraid that the coals aren't under that pile of ashes anymore and of course they always are.
 
Franks said:
I bet if you searched these forums you'll find a millions posts answering your exact questions. Cat stoves burn cleaner, cat/non cat about the same heat per cubic foot of firebox. cat stoves burn longer, non cat stoves are easier to operate for most folks, non cat stoves may cost less over a 10 year span to maintain (if you buy a decent one that has a lifetime warranty on the baffles, etc)
Click to expand...

I had a non cat stove for 3 years had nothing but trouble for me. it was the dutchwest 2479 tons of people had problems with it. i know there are alot of non cat stoves that are great but my point being is that now having a cat stove this is thing is easier than using a fireplace if you ask me. long as the wood is good its like cake. load it and go.
 
Best of all I like the cat stove because the cat burns smoke, burns clean and we have no creosote problems and our glass and stove stay clean. I cleaned the chimney after 2 winters burning 24/7 and got less than a cup of soot from the chimney. Most folks seem to get that much in a month or less.
Click to expand...

My glass always turns black. I've always accepted that because the fire is dirty in the firebox! It's supposed to be dirty in an airtight stove right? If the gasses were clean the cat wouldn't work.

Jim
 
imacheezhead said:
Best of all I like the cat stove because the cat burns smoke, burns clean and we have no creosote problems and our glass and stove stay clean. I cleaned the chimney after 2 winters burning 24/7 and got less than a cup of soot from the chimney. Most folks seem to get that much in a month or less.
Click to expand...

My glass always turns black. I've always accepted that because the fire is dirty in the firebox! It's supposed to be dirty in an airtight stove right? If the gasses were clean the cat wouldn't work.

Jim
Click to expand...

Um, no that isn't correct at all. You should be able to have clean glass in cat and non-cat stoves.

Maybe you were joking and I missed it?
 
What - are you trying to make trouble? This topic tends to generate some strong opinions...

My opinion, as owner and operator of a cat stove, is that its great. There are plenty of non-owners and non-operators of cat stoves eager to inform me of its shortcomings. There are also plenty of non-cat stoves that work real well too. There are so many other factors that frankly matter more - like getting dry wood, learning to operate the stove, having realistic expectations re: its heat output and burn time. My advice is to ask owners of the specific stove you are interested in - the rest is just noise.
 
My glass also stays clean as well. Even when i crank it down low. I think it really depends on the wood and how fast u turn it down
 
I had a non-cat stove and now have a cat stove. For me at least, the cat stove burns longer, hotter, and cleaner. I often had dirty glass running the non-cat stove too low, which doesn't happen at all with the cat stove. I'm amazed at how much heat I can get out of the cat stove for long periods. Now please keep in mind that I had two different brands of stoves, so it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. I'm sure there are non-cat stoves that work just as well (read the posts on this forum); I've just had better luck with my cat stove.
 
Um, no that isn't correct at all. You should be able to have clean glass in cat and non-cat stoves.

Maybe you were joking and I missed it?
Click to expand...

What - are you trying to make trouble? This topic tends to generate some strong opinions…
Click to expand...

No I am not joking! If a fire is starved for oxygen in an airtight stove it's going to smoke big time. The cat is supposed to burn this smoke and mine does, that's why I can achieve temps of 1200 deg. or better. After the fire dies down to a big bed of smoldering embers that produce no or very little smoke it results in the cat temperature dropping dramatically. If the glass doesn't get dirty I would think that the fire is getting too much air, thus producing less smoke and higher firebox temperatures which would help to keep the glass clean, but at the same time not letting the cat do the job it was designed to do, not to mention burning a lot more wood. I'll never forget what the girl said to me when I bought the stove 22 years ago. She said "The dirtier the fire the better". I also read that if the fire gets to much air, the gasses will pass through the cat to quickly for them to burn properly. I do let the fire burn with the bypass closed and the air dampers open after reloading until the cat gets to 500 deg. After I close the air dampers the cat temperature keeps climbing quite rapidly.

Maybe I'm asking too many questions, but this has my curiosity up. I am not trying to start trouble. I just value your opinions and maybe I'm wrong and I should change my methods! Maybe I should keep one of the air dampers open a little.
 
imacheezhead said:
Um, no that isn't correct at all. You should be able to have clean glass in cat and non-cat stoves.

Maybe you were joking and I missed it?
Click to expand...

What - are you trying to make trouble? This topic tends to generate some strong opinions…
Click to expand...

No I am not joking! If a fire is starved for oxygen in an airtight stove it's going to smoke big time. The cat is supposed to burn this smoke and mine does, that's why I can achieve temps of 1200 deg. or better. After the fire dies down to a big bed of smoldering embers that produce no or very little smoke it results in the cat temperature dropping dramatically. If the glass doesn't get dirty I would think that the fire is getting too much air, thus producing less smoke and higher firebox temperatures which would help to keep the glass clean, but at the same time not letting the cat do the job it was designed to do, not to mention burning a lot more wood. I'll never forget what the girl said to me when I bought the stove 22 years ago. She said "The dirtier the fire the better". I also read that if the fire gets to much air, the gasses will pass through the cat to quickly for them to burn properly. I do let the fire burn with the bypass closed and the air dampers open after reloading until the cat gets to 500 deg. After I close the air dampers the cat temperature keeps climbing quite rapidly.

Maybe I'm asking too many questions, but this has my curiosity up. I am not trying to start trouble. I just value your opinions and maybe I'm wrong and I should change my methods! Maybe I should keep one of the air dampers open a little.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with asking questions, keep it up. I think your old stove didn't have a very good glass air wash system like the newer stoves all have today. Either stove cat or non will have clean glass as long as you burn dry wood. Your right about too much air, it will cause the smoke and gases to pass through the cat without having enough time to burn.
 
Well now, cat or no cat eh?

I would NEVER buy the "NEVERBURN" er, uh, "EVERBURN" unit, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!

I would snatch up a catalytic stove of near any variety, I had a vermont castings 1945 catalytic and it was a fine stove, burned clean and a long time for sure!

I have the non cat jotul oslo now and that bad boy is a mean heater too.....

both systems have worked fine for me, but that NEVERBURN system, wow, I've never heard anybody say they could operate that unit successfully...
 
imacheezhead said:
Um, no that isn't correct at all. You should be able to have clean glass in cat and non-cat stoves.

Maybe you were joking and I missed it?
Click to expand...

What - are you trying to make trouble? This topic tends to generate some strong opinions…
Click to expand...

No I am not joking! If a fire is starved for oxygen in an airtight stove it's going to smoke big time. The cat is supposed to burn this smoke and mine does, that's why I can achieve temps of 1200 deg. or better. After the fire dies down to a big bed of smoldering embers that produce no or very little smoke it results in the cat temperature dropping dramatically. If the glass doesn't get dirty I would think that the fire is getting too much air, thus producing less smoke and higher firebox temperatures which would help to keep the glass clean, but at the same time not letting the cat do the job it was designed to do, not to mention burning a lot more wood. I'll never forget what the girl said to me when I bought the stove 22 years ago. She said "The dirtier the fire the better". I also read that if the fire gets to much air, the gasses will pass through the cat to quickly for them to burn properly. I do let the fire burn with the bypass closed and the air dampers open after reloading until the cat gets to 500 deg. After I close the air dampers the cat temperature keeps climbing quite rapidly.

Maybe I'm asking too many questions, but this has my curiosity up. I am not trying to start trouble. I just value your opinions and maybe I'm wrong and I should change my methods! Maybe I should keep one of the air dampers open a little.
Click to expand...

I hope the 1200 degrees or better temperature is interior temperature of the stove!

Like Todd stated, the airwash system keeps the glass clean. Also, once the wood has burned down to coals there isn't smoke to burn. I agree too that too much fire in the firebox will not allow the cat to do its job and that is why we run our stoves with very little draft. I can let the fire smolder with no flame and none or barely no red coals and the glass stays clean. The cat glows the brightest red at that time too. Later the flame will begin again rolling at the top of the firebox and it is a beautiful show.

btw, we cleaned our glass today but not any black. Just ash and a bit of haze. It is the first time the glass has been cleaned at least since November and perhaps since the summer cleaning last June.
 
I think your old stove didn’t have a very good glass air wash system like the newer stoves all have today.
Click to expand...

You're right! It doesn't have the air wash system. I guess they must be pretty effective.

I would NEVER buy the “NEVERBURN” er, uh, “EVERBURN” unit, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!
Click to expand...

Pardon my dumbness, but what unit are you referring too??

I hope the 1200 degrees or better temperature is interior temperature of the stove!
Click to expand...

I don't know what the interior temperature is. The 1200 deg. is the temperature indicated by the cat probe.
 
imacheezhead said:
Best of all I like the cat stove because the cat burns smoke, burns clean and we have no creosote problems and our glass and stove stay clean. I cleaned the chimney after 2 winters burning 24/7 and got less than a cup of soot from the chimney. Most folks seem to get that much in a month or less.
Click to expand...

My glass always turns black. I've always accepted that because the fire is dirty in the firebox! It's supposed to be dirty in an airtight stove right? If the gasses were clean the cat wouldn't work.

Jim
Click to expand...

I have the same stove as you and the glass stays somewhat clean but never really clean.. The new stoves have the air wash over the glass so that helps alot.. Dry wood makes a big difference keeping the glass cleaner.. Like you my stove has needed hardly any parts just 2 cats plus the baffle under the cat.. My shaker grates are shot but I never use them so why bother? Every time I think about a newer stove someone here will say what for yours works well and never needs anything.. Hard to argue with that sort of thinking...

Ray
 
Backwoods Savage said:
imacheezhead said:
Um, no that isn't correct at all. You should be able to have clean glass in cat and non-cat stoves.

Maybe you were joking and I missed it?
Click to expand...

What - are you trying to make trouble? This topic tends to generate some strong opinions…
Click to expand...

I hope the 1200 degrees or better temperature is interior temperature of the stove!

Like Todd stated, the airwash system keeps the glass clean. Also, once the wood has burned down to coals there isn't smoke to burn. I agree too that too much fire in the firebox will not allow the cat to do its job and that is why we run our stoves with very little draft. I can let the fire smolder with no flame and none or barely no red coals and the glass stays clean. The cat glows the brightest red at that time too. Later the flame will begin again rolling at the top of the firebox and it is a beautiful show.

btw, we cleaned our glass today but not any black. Just ash and a bit of haze. It is the first time the glass has been cleaned at least since November and perhaps since the summer cleaning last June.
Click to expand...


I hear ya on that when you have it cranked full throttle it is to much for the cat to handle and you'll see some smoke. soon as i crank down below three theres nothing. just so much trying to go through at once that it cant keep up. i was reading in the manual that its best for the cat to be from like 700 degrees to 1400 and above that is ok but thats the recomended temp. so i just think at those higher temps its trying to burn off so much that it cant
Click to expand...
 
I basically never clean the glass, if it gets a little cruddy then a hotter burn cleans it right off. Maybe scrub the fly ash off a few times a year. I think dryer wood will help keep it clean.
 
rickw said:
I basically never clean the glass, if it gets a little cruddy then a hotter burn cleans it right off. Maybe scrub the fly ash off a few times a year. I think dryer wood will help keep it clean.
Click to expand...
Three weeks now with 2 weeks worth of wet foaming wood (got some dry stuff now) Glass is still clean as the day I got it except for a little ash on it from time to time.
 
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