Advice needed. Out with the Encore, in with???

-PB- · Feb 28, 2010

Greetings all,
Finally joined after lurking and learning for a long time. I appreciate all the help you have given me without knowing it. At the end of this burn season I will be done with my VC Encore CAT for several reasons I'm sure many of you have heard many times over. I think I have narrowed my search for a new stove to the Oslo and Leyden. My main goals are long burn times (overnight) and ease of operation (for the wife). The Encore provided neither. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Here are some facts about my situation that can hopefully help you aide me in my decision.
Originally from PA, experienced wood burner.
I burn mostly dry to very dry oak and cherry. Wood is never an issue.
We live in MD so we burn 5 months at best, but during those 5 months we use the stove alot to prevent oil burner from kicking on.
2,000 sq foot home, stove is in existing fireplace, exterior chimney with 25ft professionally installed good liner.
Liner is 8" for the VC Encore, I have read previous threads about venting a 6" stove into an 8" flue. From what I have read I think the general consensus is I would probably be OK. There were concers about the 6" stove being sluggish going into an 8" flue but I never had a problem with draft in my VC (just too much draft).
Would either model be better suited to run in my existing 8" (Oslo or Leyden)? If I absolutely have to reinstall a 6" liner I can but I would really like to save some $$ if I can.
Other than that I am trying to decide which stove would be better for us with our main goals again being ease of operation (for the wife) and long burn times (overnight).
Thanks again for any opinions. Any advice would be appreciated.

SolarAndWood · Feb 28, 2010

I replaced my Encore with the BK King, couldn't be happier and why waste that 8" pipe?

Slow1 · Feb 28, 2010

I'm with SolarandWood there - Given your objective to heat 2000sqft with long burn times and ease of use as the priorities BK is what came to mind. Then reading that you have an 8" pipe makes it an easy fit in my opinion. You really are not at all likely to be disappointed with the performance of the King - now nowhere did you mention aesthetics as a priority but that is always personal preference/opinion.

If you have not yet considered the BKK, take a serious look at it - you may be surprised. Mind you I haven't ever burned one, but folks here give it such a review I wish I had a second home to install one...

summit · Feb 28, 2010

Oslo: the Leyden will be much like your encore in steps of operation

redhat · Mar 1, 2010

SolarAndWood said:
I replaced my Encore with the BK King, couldn't be happier and why waste that 8" pipe?

Good recommendation. If OP is incapable of getting long burns out of an Encore cat with hardwood he will surely benefit from the 4.5 cu/ft firebox of the BK king provides. I can get 10+ hour burns out of my Encore cat, so I'm not sure what's going on there. Based on my experience I know that it's not the Encore design that is the problem.

begreen · Mar 1, 2010

Sounds like the OP wants to stick with a castiron stove. If correct, I would also recommend the Oslo, Hearthstone Shelburne or a PE Alderlea T5. But before deciding, show the wife a Woodstock Fireview and see what she thinks.

grommal · Mar 1, 2010

I went from an Encore to an Oslo and could not be happier. Much simpler to operate, like night and day. We also had longstanding operational issues with the Encore, fighting with it for decades before finally giving up on it. The Oslo is a completely different animal. My wife cannot say enough good things about the switch.

We're venting the Oslo into an exterior chimney with an 8" square tile lining. Draft was just fine this first burning year, even in the spring and fall.

As for overnight burns, we get a bit longer life from a charge of wood in the Oslo than we did with the Encore. Both stoves had a bed of coals after 8 hours, but the Oslo tended to have a larger, hotter coal bed left over. There have been a couple of occasions in the last 2 weeks where I filled the stove for the night, but then did not put any wood in the next morning because we're almost out of wood and I wanted to save it for the nights. The following evenings I was able to rake the ashes around and have enough coals to restart it without small kindling. The key is to leave a good bed of ash in the stove and avoid the temptation to rake it through the grate. All I usually do on a reload is level the coal bed just a bit, letting the ashes find their own way through the grate and into the ash pan. The result is longer burn times because of the insulating ash bed and slower filling of the ash pan.

As many others here will mention, dry wood is a must. I can tell the difference in wood condition more with the Oslo than I could with the old Encore.

And, finally, if you can load with the side door, that will eliminate the issue with the ash dumping on the front ash lip. Many others have also reported on this little design flaw of the Oslo.

I also looked at the Leyden, but it reminded me too much of the Encore, with the rear burn chamber (though not a cat like our Encore).

-PB- · Mar 1, 2010

Thanks all for the opinions. Most reviews are great for both (Oslo and Leyden). I will check out the Woodstock fireview. I forgot to mention but I think my fireplace is too small for the BK King. Given my choices and the comperable reviews I may just see what kind of deal I can get out there. $$$ always helps in making a decision, especially when according to the reviews I really can't go wrong with either. Thanks again.

firefighterjake · Mar 1, 2010

Of the two choices listed . . . Oslo . . . but I admit I am very biased.

Gridlock · Mar 1, 2010

-PB- said:
My main goals are long burn times (overnight) and ease of operation (for the wife). The Encore provided neither.

I'm curious about this; I have a VC Defiant CAT, and it provides lots of heat, long burn times, and is easy to use. What made it hard to use? Why do you think that a different stove will give you more heat; are you looking for something larger? I'm not affiliated with VC in any way, just curious about your experience.

maxed_out · Mar 1, 2010

I'm curious about the "hard to use" comment as well. I'm not sticking up for my stove but I think its not that bad to operate. Its a little fussey some days and over engineered others.

As far as the OP, from what I've read on this site I'd add the Quadrafire Isle Royale to your list. There is someone that posts here about that thing and it sounds like another good one to consider. I may just follow your tracks in the snow if you get my drift.

PS when you are ready to get rid of your present stove please contact me.

grommal · Mar 1, 2010

maxed_out said:
I'm curious about the "hard to use" comment as well. I'm not sticking up for my stove but I think its not that bad to operate. Its a little fussey some days and over engineered others.

As far as the OP, from what I've read on this site I'd add the Quadrafire Isle Royale to your list. There is someone that posts here about that thing and it sounds like another good one to consider. I may just follow your tracks in the snow if you get my drift.

PS when you are ready to get rid of your present stove please contact me.

The Quad Isle Royale would indeed be a good one to consider, especially if the OP wants to retain the top loading capability from the Encore. The IR has a bit bigger firebox than the Oslo, too.

This was our final choice, Oslo vs. Isle Royale. At the end we decided we could live without the top loading that we used so much in the past, and it has worked out well so far.

SolarAndWood · Mar 2, 2010

grommal said:
At the end we decided we could live without the top loading that we used so much in the past, and it has worked out well so far.

Top load was on our must have list after the Encore, but we don't miss it. Don't need an ash pan either for that matter.

I always found the Encore fairly simple to operate with dry wood. 10 hr burns were not a problem as long as we didn't need a lot of heat. We needed more heat than it could reliably produce and from my experience pushing that stove isn't such a good idea.

Smokey Bear · Mar 2, 2010

I just replaced a 20 year old VC Resolute Acclaim with a Lopi Leyden. We looked at the Oslo which was very nice but wanted to stay with the top loading.
I have only had it a week but I immediately noticed the Lopi seems to really "throw" the heat out.

grommal · Mar 2, 2010

SolarAndWood said:
grommal said:

At the end we decided we could live without the top loading that we used so much in the past, and it has worked out well so far.

Click to expand...

Top load was on our must have list after the Encore, but we don't miss it. Don't need an ash pan either for that matter.

I always found the Encore fairly simple to operate with dry wood. 10 hr burns were not a problem as long as we didn't need a lot of heat. We needed more heat than it could reliably produce and from my experience pushing that stove isn't such a good idea.

We had chronic backpuffing with our Encore. Don't miss that. Other than that, it was a nice stove. We weren't sure we'd like not having the convenient top loading, but we don't miss it, either.

Now, the ash pan is another story. I know lots of folks don't have them, don't use them, don't like them, but not me. The Encore's pan was a great size, and made ash disposal a mess-free affair. That was a key feature in selecting the Oslo as replacement - a large, well designed ash pan.

Nonprophet · Mar 2, 2010

Gridlock said:
-PB- said:

My main goals are long burn times (overnight) and ease of operation (for the wife). The Encore provided neither.

Click to expand...

I'm curious about this; I have a VC Defiant CAT, and it provides lots of heat, long burn times, and is easy to use. What made it hard to use? Why do you think that a different stove will give you more heat; are you looking for something larger? I'm not affiliated with VC in any way, just curious about your experience.

We burned a Defiant/Encore 2550 for one full season. Gorgeous stove--in Midnight blue enamel with the warming shelves and the way cool little dragons....! As much as we liked the looks of the stove, we found it VERY finicky to operate. Finding the "sweet spot" was tough, and more than a few times if we didn't watch the VC like a hawk starting or after re-loading, it would get away from us and we'd get 800-850 degree griddle temps, and then freak out trying to cool it down......Ironically, with our new stove (an Oslo BTW) it would appear that maybe we don't have enough draft, so go figure! We never were able to utilize the "set it and forget it" claims of the Encore primary air control lever--it seems like we had to constantly monitor and adjust to keep the stove burning right. I really did like the top-load feature, and I miss that on the Oslo--but the side door on the Oslo is also a nice feature.

The other thing we really didn't like about the VC Encore was the ongoing expense of maintenance. When we first got the stove we spent some $300 on a new combustor, new andirons, new door, ashpan, and griddle gaskets, and a new lower fireback. We knew that within 3-5 years we'd be looking at another combustor and a refractory box (about $600 for both) and maybe even the time and expense of a complete tear-down and rebuild. As much as we liked the stove, it just didn't seem worth it--especially considering VC's recent checkered past with changing ownership a few times in the past 10 years, spare parts price increases, and failing to honor warranties.

NP

weatherguy · Mar 2, 2010

Can you fit a BK princess in your fireplace? Wood burning doesnt get any easier than with this stove and I get long burn times.

-PB- · Mar 2, 2010

Nonprophet said:
Gridlock said:

-PB- said:

My main goals are long burn times (overnight) and ease of operation (for the wife). The Encore provided neither.

Click to expand...

I'm curious about this; I have a VC Defiant CAT, and it provides lots of heat, long burn times, and is easy to use. What made it hard to use? Why do you think that a different stove will give you more heat; are you looking for something larger? I'm not affiliated with VC in any way, just curious about your experience.

Click to expand...

We burned a Defiant/Encore 2550 for one full season. Gorgeous stove--in Midnight blue enamel with the warming shelves and the way cool little dragons....! As much as we liked the looks of the stove, we found it VERY finicky to operate. Finding the "sweet spot" was tough, and more than a few times if we didn't watch the VC like a hawk starting or after re-loading, it would get away from us and we'd get 800-850 degree griddle temps, and then freak out trying to cool it down......Ironically, with our new stove (an Oslo BTW) it would appear that maybe we don't have enough draft, so go figure! We never were able to utilize the "set it and forget it" claims of the Encore primary air control lever--it seems like we had to constantly monitor and adjust to keep the stove burning right. I really did like the top-load feature, and I miss that on the Oslo--but the side door on the Oslo is also a nice feature.

The other thing we really didn't like about the VC Encore was the ongoing expense of maintenance. When we first got the stove we spent some $300 on a new combustor, new andirons, new door, ashpan, and griddle gaskets, and a new lower fireback. We knew that within 3-5 years we'd be looking at another combustor and a refractory box (about $600 for both) and maybe even the time and expense of a complete tear-down and rebuild. As much as we liked the stove, it just didn't seem worth it--especially considering VC's recent checkered past with changing ownership a few times in the past 10 years, spare parts price increases, and failing to honor warranties.

NP

we had many of the same issues. When I am not home nights I don't want the wife to have to deal with the frustrating task of finding the "sweet spot" of burning the encore, especially with kids and dogs running around. She has enough to do. It seems our encore is so delicate the slightest gasket leak, ashpan or front door alignment issue, equipment failure, will cause it to run wild or operate totally differently. I would love more low maintenance and consistancy. I guess that is what I mean by ease of operation. Echoing Nonprophet's quote I don't think paying $600 every 3-5 yrs for various equipment failures and/or wearing is something we want to deal with. Especially when our encore is so finniky and seems like it can be damaged so easily. The encore is only my second stove. The problem is I grew up with an old VC Defiant which was a beast. Maybe the old VC spoiled me. It just seems like the old beast was so much more reliable and easy.

geoxman · Mar 3, 2010

I have had my VC CAT Defiant Encore since 86 and the wife came in 94. We are city folk and she knew nothing about burning. I travel about 3 days a week and she has never had a problem..kids, 1 St. Bernard, 1 Newfoundland, 1 Golden and 2 cats. I have never found the unit to be so finiky (sp) to run. It has it's quirks but I never worry about the family when I am away and I get easily 10hr overnight burns with my locust and hickory. The stove is the only source as I shut off Laclede. Is your stove much different from mine? Good luck on your search....and my wife said she would rather have a "car bumper, radiator and tires" in our front room before a blaze king..women and their taste. She does like the Woodstock but the pocket book won't allow it for now. good luck!

BrowningBAR · Mar 3, 2010

geoxman said:
1 St. Bernard, 1 Newfoundland, 1 Golden and 2 cats.

That is a lot of fur and slobber right there.

geoxman · Mar 3, 2010

BrowningBAR said:
geoxman said:

1 St. Bernard, 1 Newfoundland, 1 Golden and 2 cats.

Click to expand...

That is a lot of fur and slobber right there.

The love is worth the slobber! The short haired Saint thinks he is a lap dog, the Newfy thinks he is a fish and the Golden...well he is the typical Golden spazz. The cats don't slobber much and pretty much stay on the third floor away from the Saint.

PB,
good luck on what ever you decide and not trying to hijack! Is a wood furnace an option? I have been trying to read up on Kuuma and how they function/work??

-PB- · Mar 5, 2010

geoxman said:
BrowningBAR said:

geoxman said:

1 St. Bernard, 1 Newfoundland, 1 Golden and 2 cats.

Click to expand...

That is a lot of fur and slobber right there.

Click to expand...

The love is worth the slobber! The short haired Saint thinks he is a lap dog, the Newfy thinks he is a fish and the Golden...well he is the typical Golden spazz. The cats don't slobber much and pretty much stay on the third floor away from the Saint.

PB,
good luck on what ever you decide and not trying to hijack! Is a wood furnace an option? I have been trying to read up on Kuuma and how they function/work??

If you are referring to the outdoor wood furnace I live in Montgomery Co. MD. I believe there is a county ordinance against outdoor wood furnaces. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Advice needed. Out with the Encore, in with???

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