Who makes the highest btu output FS pellet and multifuel stove

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andyc

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Feb 28, 2010
36
n.central ct
I'm not interested in a furnace application just a good high input/output FS stove.
I know that you have to put the fuel in to get the heat out.
I'm trying to get away from using any propane for heating, currently using an Austroflamm Integra FS (45,000btu) and a propane furnace to heat a 3500 sqft fairly tight and fairly well insulated house.
I like the idea of the Dell Point technology but I don't think 34,000 btu will do it, if they made one in the 75 to 100,000 btu range at a reasonable price and no problems with it I'd be very interested.
Andy
 
andyc said:
I'm not interested in a furnace application just a good high input/output FS stove.
I know that you have to put the fuel in to get the heat out.
I'm trying to get away from using any propane for heating, currently using an Austroflamm Integra FS (45,000btu) and a propane furnace to heat a 3500 sqft fairly tight and fairly well insulated house.
I like the idea of the Dell Point technology but I don't think 34,000 btu will do it, if they made one in the 75 to 100,000 btu range at a reasonable price and no problems with it I'd be very interested.
Andy
Click to expand...

3500 is a lot of square feet to heat with 1 space heater. If ya don't want a furnace I suggest 2 smaller stoves. BUT, that's just MY opinion
 
as far as I know, the harman P68 is the largest F/S unit, but even given that square footage you indicated, I dont think it will do it effectively........put me in for two stoves, at opposite ends of the house, also following code constraints
 
Thanks Hoss for the suggestion, I have thought about that also but for me and the wife carrying bags of pellets up basement stairs and down the hallway isn't really an option. Wish I was younger all the time. LOL
I don't think it would take much more btu to handle it. With outside temps here in CT lately averaging 32'F the Integra is doing a pretty good job.When it gets down into the teens it's another story. This year so far have gone through 5 1/2 tons of pellets and about $600.00 for propane...roughly by my calculations about $14. to $15.00/day average.
Bought an Astoria 2 years ago and that didn't cut it. Brought the Integra back in and it's better but the Integra is going on 15 years old. Looking for something new. Anyone want to buy a good used Astoria?
Andy
 
Andy,

Like hoss says furnace will do a better job of full house heating. But if a stove is what you want and don't mind a bit of a temp fluctuation about the house. There are 3 stoves that may come close Enviro Maxx(70,000BTU's), Enviro Omega(60,000BTU's) and the Harman P68(68,000BTU's). All three eat about 8 pounds of pellets an hour on there highest settings. That's very close to 4 bags a day.

I have a Omega in a basement install(I know BAD!) 2k sqft. and it never has to go above the 3-3 Medium setting. About 4 Lbs an hour whens its running. I average 2 bags a day in the extreme cold. about 1 bag a day in the normal(this weather). Sweet stove and really cranks some serious heat! Eats even the crappy pellets very well. It also has burned corn and grass pellets with good heat. I will try cherry pits and the Acai berrys someday too. Hard to beat the multifuel feature and well worth the extra compaired to the Maxx. Even at 2 bags a day, I only clean it once a week. Otherwise I don't even open the door. Just keep the hopper full. agitator in the burnpot so NO daily scrapping!

just my 2
jay
 
BLIMP said:
Might as well look into the COMBEX technology
Click to expand...

From what I gather this Combex technology is basically a fan for combustion air and one for exhaust air or a picture that shows one motor doing both. All I can find is Osburns sales literature/brochures but nothing to explain how Combex is supposedly better.
Anyone familiar with it?
 
5 1/2 tons pellets, wow!! your heating a huge space , 3500 sq ft, i dont know your situation but if it's just 2 people better off to downsize, you made the choice of a large house, now pay the piper to heat it.
I'm sure it's nice place.......
 
Gio said:
BLIMP said:
Might as well look into the COMBEX technology
Click to expand...

From what I gather this Combex technology is basically a fan for combustion air and one for exhaust air or a picture that shows one motor doing both. All I can find is Osburns sales literature/brochures but nothing to explain how Combex is supposedly better.
Anyone familiar with it?
Click to expand...

I checked them out a while back. In general. One motor is running both fans. Using the same speed for combustion and convection. Not sure I bought it and don't think there is an efficiency gain. Personally, I would want more convection to distribute the heated air. And you are not able to increase it with out increasing the combustion air. Only savings I quessed was a bit of electric. But then again you might be using more with one motor working much harder than 2?

Osborns max rating was only 45,000 BTU's Not much of a monster. No way it would handle 3k plus sqft! You would still need "1 1/2" of them puppies. Max sqft rating was around 2k I thinx!
 
For a big, multifuel heater, the Enviro will do the trick for you... since you reside in CT, i wonder how much of a multi fuel you need? are you burning alot of corn? I would not do the dell -point, as your Integra is a way better unit for output and efficiency, IMHO.
For a primary diet of wood pellets, in a BIG out put heater, you can't go wrong w/ a P68. You are doing good w/ that Integra btw: we have many out there, and nary an issue or negative comment about them. Very efficient unit.
 
5 1/2 tons is a lot of fuel. I am heating 3500sf with a Harman PB105 boiler and a Quadrafire Castile insert. The boiler does the majority of the heating as well as supplying domestic hot water. The insert is just supplement heat in the main living area and my wife likes to sit in front of a fire. I have used just over 6 tons so far this year. Have not used any propane other than for the clothes dryer.

Just seem like a lot of pellets to put through a F/S stove.
 
PKing, I wish I could downsize, but I'm going to die with what I've got...a lot of toys and stuff I just don't want to get rid of, so I need the space. Area consists of basement/pool table/rec room about 550 sqft the rest is approx. 1600 sqft main level and then the raised level is another 1460 sqft, kinda offset up not a true 2 story/floor situation kinda raised ranch situation. Stove is in the basement and hot air rises and has done well convecting the heat for many years. Stove runs 24/7 no T-stat...I guess I'm the T-stat/regulator. I've found through the years to heat the hell out of the basement and then open cool air from the garage in the basement to help the heated air rise into the upper areas. It works out to about a 10 to 12 hour cycle for best transfer. The wife wonders what's going to happen if I'm gone and how to deal with everything...I wonder how I'm going to deal with everything after she's gone...LOL...she's 12 years younger. The Omega has been one of the stoves I have been looking into. Yes there are only 2 living at home plus 2 dogs.

Summit, you're right I don't necessarily need a multifuel stove but I like the fact of clinker/ashdump features that they have...I have seen my share of clinkers and dumped who knows how much ash after 14 to 15 years of using a pellet stove almost exclusively for heat...the propane was added when we added onto the house in 2007. Prior to that the house was electric heat, house was about 1250 sqft and after installing the Integra in 1995 that's all I used was pellets for heat no more electric for heat after 1995. The pellet stove paid foe itself within 2 years of course pellets were only $135. to $150.00/ton. Back then it was only 2 to 3 tons max per year. I figure for a little over twice the area as before, burning 6 tons aint bad. I also figure that if I had not wasted the time using the Astoria I would have saved a bunch of pellets using the Integra instead. I think Astoria and lack of heat at 4 bags/day vs. Integra and good heat at 2 to 3 bags/day.
Andy
 
andyc said:
I'm not interested in a furnace application just a good high input/output FS stove.
I know that you have to put the fuel in to get the heat out.
I'm trying to get away from using any propane for heating, currently using an Austroflamm Integra FS (45,000btu) and a propane furnace to heat a 3500 sqft fairly tight and fairly well insulated house.
I like the idea of the Dell Point technology but I don't think 34,000 btu will do it, if they made one in the 75 to 100,000 btu range at a reasonable price and no problems with it I'd be very interested.
Andy
Click to expand...

Why are you not interested in a furnace application? Why not take advatage of your existing duct work used by your propane furnace? It wouldn't cost you anything to get good heat distribution and register control. Granted you would burn more pellets with a furnace but the comfort would be worth it. You could heat completely with the pellet furnace and forget the propane. Use the propane as your back-up heat.
 
andyc said:
I'm not interested in a furnace application just a good high input/output FS stove.
I know that you have to put the fuel in to get the heat out.
I'm trying to get away from using any propane for heating, currently using an Austroflamm Integra FS (45,000btu) and a propane furnace to heat a 3500 sqft fairly tight and fairly well insulated house.
I like the idea of the Dell Point technology but I don't think 34,000 btu will do it, if they made one in the 75 to 100,000 btu range at a reasonable price and no problems with it I'd be very interested.
Andy
Click to expand...

I'm gonna get a ton of crap for this, but I bet if you used a Dell Point (now Paromax) Europa it will out heat that 45K btu Austroflamm. In fact, wouldn't us giving you one to try for a year perhaps help prove what the capabilities are? If you heated more of the home with a stove that used 34K btus of pellets (Can probably determine this with your propane useage and degree days) How many years of data do you have for your current set up with propane usage and pellet usage?

I know the Europa wont (or shouldnt) heat 3500 square feet, but this may be a great litmus test of sorts. Imagine if we could arrange to let you use one for a year? Aint saying I could pull it off, but I would sure like to try something like this.

Whatcha all think?
 
Quote from exoilburner

Why are you not interested in a furnace application? Why not take advatage of your existing duct work used by your propane furnace? It wouldn’t cost you anything to get good heat distribution and register control. Granted you would burn more pellets with a furnace but the comfort would be worth it. You could heat completely with the pellet furnace and forget the propane. Use the propane as your back-up heat.

The reason is the same for not adding a second stove upstairs...having to lug pellets up the stairs and down a long narrow hallway. When the addition was built, upstairs was where the furnace was located. The main purpose of the addition was a garage and I wanted to keep it a garage. Plus the logistics of ducting and venting and pellet prices escalating...so that's where the furnace went. If I had to redo it I'd have to re-think it.
I have thought of a pellet furnace and some type of conveyor system through the floor to supply the pellets up, but I'm tired of doing projects like this, I enjoy them (projects)but you just can't walk into a HD store and buy a conveyor to handle this.
It's all gotta be custom made.
Thanks for your and everyones input.
Andy
 
Quote from FrankS

I’m gonna get a ton of crap for this, but I bet if you used a Dell Point (now Paromax) Europa it will out heat that 45K btu Austroflamm. In fact, wouldn’t us giving you one to try for a year perhaps help prove what the capabilities are? If you heated more of the home with a stove that used 34K btus of pellets (Can probably determine this with your propane useage and degree days) How many years of data do you have for your current set up with propane usage and pellet usage?
I know the Europa wont (or shouldnt) heat 3500 square feet, but this may be a great litmus test of sorts. Imagine if we could arrange to let you use one for a year? Aint saying I could pull it off, but I would sure like to try something like this.
Whatcha all think?

Hell yeh, LOL
Frank, I would be willing to try this out. As I haved stated in other posts, I like the idea and technology behind the Europa stove.
My only concerns are the btu ratings as I have stated before...I wish they (Paromax) made a model in the 60 to 70k btu range.
I'd probably be all over that.
I believe you are probably correct in your statements regarding the efficiencies of a 15 year old Integra and the newer Europa.

I have all documentation regarding pellet and propane usage since the addition was added in 2007, this is when the propane furnace was also installed. The propane invoices also show degree days between refills.
The only problem would be isolating propane for heat usage only...I also use the propane for cooking,dryer,on demand water heater for one bath, and a fireplace in the master bedroom (used only a few times...wife likes it ). There is only myself and my wife and two dogs living here so my thoughts of propane usage are 80% heat and 20% other over a year.
Refilling the propane is like clock work, fill in mid November (300-335 gallons) refill late February (300-350 gallons).

If you could pull this off, I would be willing to test and document the capabilities of the Europa in my home and post the results/findings on this forum.
Thanks for your replies.
Andy
 
Ok, right now Claude is preparing for our industries trade show. When he gets back, I'll hit him with the idea. I'm sure it is going to involve contracts, etc which will provide that you return the stove on X date in X condition, blah blah with the provision that if you want to keep the stove, you can buy it. We would probably also ask that you document your findings here weekly along with any quirks or issues with the stove. It would be great if you could have a running journal on you tube. Does anyone else see any holes in this proposed idea?
 
Frank, I have no issues with contracts other than the contract. LOL... Shouldn't be a problem.
utube ? I don't know how. Don't know if I would go to that extreme. Documentation weekly or daily okay.
Andy
 
I'd like to see the results..Franks; you're in NY, can you get Yuengling beer down there? I'll betcha a 6 pack of yuengling beer 4 me vs a beer of your choice 4 you that the Integra outdoes the Dellpoint... its got another 10000 btu, and a way higher heat exchange area and convection fan. I've been running into these in our area for a long time, and they are great units... the old units like his are great, the new Integra 2s are really quite the rig, and you can program in heating periods set to run at whatever time you want, combustion air input speeds, self clean cycles, min and max rates for feeds, all to come on in a completely independent manner. Its an ultimate pellet geek device... It also costs over 5k.
 
Summit, you got it. But if the Europa does what I think it will do, you gotta come out to CNY and we'll drink the beer of your choice for the weekend. If it the Europa doesnt out perform the Integra, then....you come to NY and we'll drink the beer of your choice for the weekend!

I used to sell the Austroflamms back in the day, I know about their nasty heat, which is why I want to use it as a comparison. Or, something else may happen..the Europa heats about the same as the Integra, propane usage is the same, degree days are about the same and:
The Europa burned the same amount of fuel as the Integra from the Flock of Seagull days..which may disprove the ole "Europa uses less pellets" thing. Or, the Europa puts the same BTUs into the home as the Integra but Andy here uses a ton or 2 less pellets. Either way, It would be interesting.

Andy, what kind of equipment do you have to monitor the temps, etc?
 
summit said:
I'd like to see the results..Franks; you're in NY, can you get Yuengling beer down there? I'll betcha a 6 pack of yuengling beer 4 me vs a beer of your choice 4 you that the Integra outdoes the Dellpoint... its got another 10000 btu, and a way higher heat exchange area and convection fan. I've been running into these in our area for a long time, and they are great units... the old units like his are great, the new Integra 2s are really quite the rig, and you can program in heating periods set to run at whatever time you want, combustion air input speeds, self clean cycles, min and max rates for feeds, all to come on in a completely independent manner. Its an ultimate pellet geek device... It also costs over 5k.
Click to expand...

I think you can make all those adjustments with the Europa, except for programming when the heat will turn on and off. Ash Managment, auger feed trim and combustion air all are extremely adjustable. Of course, the default settings work great and I end up making things worse when I start playing with the buttons. All for $4499 (currently) And a battery back up.
 
Frank, nothing hi-tech by any means...just thermometers (both mechanical and electronic) that are placed in various places around the house that are not subject to direct sunlight or drafts from doors opening etc.
I have used electronic cooking probes in heat exchanger tubes to get temps directly at the stove for various pellet comparisons and stove tuning.
This is the method I have used for years and believe it to be pretty accurate and consistant.
Andy
 
Franks said:
Summit, you got it. But if the Europa does what I think it will do, you gotta come out to CNY and we'll drink the beer of your choice for the weekend. If it the Europa doesnt out perform the Integra, then....you come to NY and we'll drink the beer of your choice for the weekend!

I used to sell the Austroflamms back in the day, I know about their nasty heat, which is why I want to use it as a comparison. Or, something else may happen..the Europa heats about the same as the Integra, propane usage is the same, degree days are about the same and:
The Europa burned the same amount of fuel as the Integra from the Flock of Seagull days..which may disprove the ole "Europa uses less pellets" thing. Or, the Europa puts the same BTUs into the home as the Integra but Andy here uses a ton or 2 less pellets. Either way, It would be interesting.

Andy, what kind of equipment do you have to monitor the temps, etc?
Click to expand...

you are on, Franks!
 
I think an older integra would be a good device to test against, too, since it is a manual start device, much like the dell point, so the whole pellets saved via auto operation thing would not be an issue: another unit to compare the results would also be the p38: another manual start unit.
 
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