Burn time and efficiency in tight-packed smaller stove vs less-packed larger stove

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dave360up

Member
Feb 2, 2010
55
upstate NY
Given two similar but differently sized stoves such as the Oslo and the Firelight:

Pack the Oslo (2.3 cu. ft.) fully
Load the Firelight (3.2 cu. ft.) with the exact same amount, type, and size of wood as fit in the Oslo

How do the two situations compare in terms of:

a) Burn time (time until next packing without needing kindling version)
b) Efficiency (amount of heat content of the wood transferred to the room)
 
Well, you get so much heat out of a pound of wood, we all know that. If both stoves were 100% exact as far as how air tight they were and the cfms allowed thru the combustion air inlets with air controls shut down as far as the levers would allow..you would have more air space around the wood in the firelight. I'm guessing the heat efficiency would be the same? Same energy released from the wood. More mass to heat with the larger stove, so more energy used in heating the stove, but then more surface area releasing heat into the room. Does that balance itself out? I would hazard to guess that the burn times would be so similar that you would need a lab to realize a difference. I'm just thinking out loud, I'm sure someone will come back with an exact scientific answer. It's a good question and I cant wait to see what the minds here come up with.

Does the wood weigh the same as a duck? That is the answer we are really seeking
 
All I can tell ya is in my 3.5 cf firebox stove I can load it full and take it up to 550-600 and get overnight burns. Or I can load it around 2/3 full and take it up to 500 and get overnight burns.

Not having calorimetry equipment in my family room I can't give you any heating efficiency numbers.
 
BrotherBart said:
All I can tell ya is in my 3.5 cf firebox stove I can load it full and take it up to 550-600 and get overnight burns. Or I can load it around 2/3 full and take it up to 500 and get overnight burns.

Not having calorimetry equipment in my family room I can't give you any heating efficiency numbers.

Well, you'll just have to burn it one way next year and the other way the year after. Report back to us in two years and tell us how much wood you burned each way.


Personally, I don't believe a tightly packed stove is as efficient in combustion as a more loosely packed stove.

My reasoning?

If the air could be forced through all those tight spaces at a high enough velocity, you would get a very complete mixing of intake air and wood gases and efficiency would be so high you wouldn't need secondary combustion, but that's not what's really happening inside the stove. All those spaces are causing individual resistances to mass flow, so air velocities would drop well below flame propagation velocities and some of the wood gases would escape the primary burn zone. These gases must be addressed by the addition of air (and high ignition temps) later on along the way. That's what gives you the secondary burn.

By keeping the stove partially filled, you get a much better mix of air/gas in the primary burn zone. The gases are mixed in the spaces around and above the wood. The turbulence created causes a very even mixture of air and gases, and the burn becomes more efficient. Secondary air is not needed nearly as much because most of the gases are burned in the main fire. To me, secondary combustion is just a way to deal with sloppy primary combustion.



I think you will get a longer burn in the tightly packed small stove with the same amount of wood, but that is more obvious why it is so.
 
If you are in Upstate NY on the fence between 2.3 and 3.2 cu ft stoves, get the bigger one. Even if there is a small efficiency difference in milder temperatures, it will be of little consequence when you have to get up and load the smaller stove in the middle of the night when its cold and blowing.
 
I have already purchased (but not yet installed) the Firelight to replace the Franklin stove we have been using to heat the farmhouse we purchased in early January. So the stove decision is made at this point.

The burn time and efficiency question is more out of interest and curiosity in relation to how the new stoves function. Personally, I don't think that the efficiency would be all that different in the two scenarios, but can imagine that the burn times might differ significantly.

Either way, I am interested in what ideas people have to offer about both scenarios.
 
Battenkiller said:
Well, you'll just have to burn it one way next year and the other way the year after. Report back to us in two years and tell us how much wood you burned each way.

Fours years of burning it both ways and most of the time 2/3 full wins. Burning N/S I never mess with the "secondary burn" light show. Just nice flames and let the secondary air pick off the strays up at the baffle.

I ain't putting my wood in the microwave either.
 
Congrats on the stove Dave.

BB, is 2/3 because putting half again more wood in would just produce heat you don't need anyway?
 
dave360up said:
I have already purchased (but not yet installed) the Firelight to replace the Franklin stove we have been using to heat the farmhouse we purchased in early January. So the stove decision is made at this point.

The burn time and efficiency question is more out of interest and curiosity in relation to how the new stoves function. Personally, I don't think that the efficiency would be all that different in the two scenarios, but can imagine that the burn times might differ significantly.

Either way, I am interested in what ideas people have to offer about both scenarios.

Franks had a good answer above........

I've had a chance to mess with both Oslo's in the family and my BIL'S Firelight.....great stoves!
I would defiantly buck wood at least 20" ...I wouldn't do 24" because the back is tapered.

This applies to both F500/F600
I usually load right up near the brackets that hold the burn tubes ( for overnights).
During the day it depends on the temps outside ½ or ¾ loaded.

As far as scientific data, don't have any.......just real world experience using both stoves.
In my opinion, the burn times aren't a......smack in the face type difference. In the morning both stoves render a good coal bed.
The Oslo loaded full...the firelight loaded 3/4....prob balance each other out like Franks said.
Loading frequency is pretty close can't put numbers on it....like I said.... no smack to the face.
But......it's nice fitting 2 xtra Shagbark chunks into the firelight....but that's 2 chunks I could save and use in the Oslo the next night......but that's 11k in btu's lost....dammmm

So what are we talking here let's see......

Firelight 465 lbs 81k btu's...perfect world burn time of 10 hrs.
Oslo 445 lbs 70k btu's ..perfect world burn time of 9 hrs.


WoodButcher
 
WOODBUTCHER said:
So what are we talking here let's see......

Firelight 465 lbs 81k btu's...perfect world burn time of 10 hrs.
Oslo 445 lbs 70k btu's ..perfect world burn time of 9 hrs.

If those burn times and the firebox sizes are both reasonably representative, that would suggest that you get almost half again more btus out of the Firelight in the same 9 to 10 hr burn if you fill them both up all other things held constant.
 
Battenkiller said:
BrotherBart said:
All I can tell ya is in my 3.5 cf firebox stove I can load it full and take it up to 550-600 and get overnight burns. Or I can load it around 2/3 full and take it up to 500 and get overnight burns.

Not having calorimetry equipment in my family room I can't give you any heating efficiency numbers.

Well, you'll just have to burn it one way next year and the other way the year after. Report back to us in two years and tell us how much wood you burned each way.


Personally, I don't believe a tightly packed stove is as efficient in combustion as a more loosely packed stove.

My reasoning?

If the air could be forced through all those tight spaces at a high enough velocity, you would get a very complete mixing of intake air and wood gases and efficiency would be so high you wouldn't need secondary combustion, but that's not what's really happening inside the stove. All those spaces are causing individual resistances to mass flow, so air velocities would drop well below flame propagation velocities and some of the wood gases would escape the primary burn zone. These gases must be addressed by the addition of air (and high ignition temps) later on along the way. That's what gives you the secondary burn.

By keeping the stove partially filled, you get a much better mix of air/gas in the primary burn zone. The gases are mixed in the spaces around and above the wood. The turbulence created causes a very even mixture of air and gases, and the burn becomes more efficient. Secondary air is not needed nearly as much because most of the gases are burned in the main fire. To me, secondary combustion is just a way to deal with sloppy primary combustion.



I think you will get a longer burn in the tightly packed small stove with the same amount of wood, but that is more obvious why it is so.
Sounds like sloppy seconds too me! :lol:
 
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