Metal Cat?

Do you have a link for it?

imacheezhead said:

I have a Consolidated Dutchwest wood burning stove that I have been using since 1988. This stove utilizes a cat with a ceramic honeycomb substrate that I replace every 3 years or so. Recently I noticed that a new style combustor is available that utilizes a steel substrate rather than ceramic and the claim is that the light off temperature is 400° rather than 500° for the ceramic. They also say that they last longer as well. Another claim is that because the substrate is denser, there will be more contact with the flue gasses, thus reducing creosote build up in the chimney.

Did anyone have any experience with this type of cat.

Thanks for your help,

Jim

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Jim I heard they tend to sag under high temps.. I just replaced my cat with another Condar cat.. Mine tend to last 6 yrs. or so... Keep your receipts as they are prorated for replacement under warranty.. FYI I just cleaned my ashbin and giving it another shot... Let's see how it goes...I bought mine at my local dealer for about $15.00 more, here is a link the best deal I could find on a traditional ceramic combustor for our stoves: http://www.inandoutlifestyles.com/coduwostcaco.html

Ray

Ray

i didn't have that one, least i don't think so, but i bought one that was metal almost like a steel braid and a bit shorter in height....it worked for about a month then it clogged up on me. i ordered another ceramic from black swan replacing it last year. i pulled the cdw this year in favor of a pe summit.... not sure it was the right decision but it works ok considering.
if you try it, be prepared to get another next season.

cass

I put a condar "SteelCat" in my intrepid last fall. The steel cat definitely lights off quicker than the ceramic one in my encore. If the steel cat holds up physically I will switch over the encore cat over to steel, having the lower temperature light off is worth the extra cost IMO..

imacheezhead said:

Jim I heard they tend to sag under high temps.. I just replaced my cat with another Condar cat.. Mine tend to last 6 yrs. or so… Keep your receipts as they are prorated for replacement under warranty.. FYI I just cleaned my ashbin and giving it another shot… Let’s see how it goes…I bought mine at my local dealer for about $15.00 more, here is a link the best deal I could find on a traditional ceramic combustor for our stoves

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Hi Ray,

That is a better price than I paid by about 10 bux.

Let us know how the clean ashbin works for you.

i didn’t have that one, least i don’t think so, but i bought one that was metal almost like a steel braid and a bit shorter in height….it worked for about a month then it clogged up on me. i ordered another ceramic from black swan replacing it last year. i pulled the cdw this year in favor of a pe summit…. not sure it was the right decision but it works ok considering.
if you try it, be prepared to get another next season.

cass

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That's discouraging


Jim

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Hello Jim,

It's great to have someone here with the same stove as mine! I would seriously consider its replacement model 2461 if it proves to be durable like our stove.. As for the ceramic combustor I thought about the steel cats but decided to stay the course with what I know works well..

On the ashbin thing I am lighting it off using the underfire air as I write this and it definitely lights easier.. It was a bear getting that ash bin out after many years of it being full lol..

It was good to see VCburner aka Chris enjoying his rebuilt large convection.. If they hold up I would buy one in the event this one bites the bullet.. Wish you lived nearby as I could use a hand resealing this beast.. This stove owes me nothing and demands little...

Ray

tcassavaugh said:

i didn't have that one, least i don't think so, but i bought one that was metal almost like a steel braid and a bit shorter in height....it worked for about a month then it clogged up on me. i ordered another ceramic from black swan replacing it last year. i pulled the cdw this year in favor of a pe summit.... not sure it was the right decision but it works ok considering.
if you try it, be prepared to get another next season.

cass

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From your description you have the clearskies cat, not the condar steel. Apples and oranges.

I started the season with a Stainless Condar and have had no issues with it sagging. I have been burning 24/7 and it's still looks the same. I let the stove go cold today so yes I actually took a look at it. No clue on how long it will last???

If you have a couple extra bucks to spend it may pay off in the long??? If not I would shop the best priced ceramic, although the price is right I would think the cheaper stainless would be too much like a filter that would easily get clogged.

We had a Steelcat in a VC Defiant Encore. After one heating season it was totally coming apart and was very difficult to remove without damaging the refractory since the innards had sagged so badly it wouldn't fit back out of the opening. It also seemed to clog easily - we had to clean it out every month or so. We replaced it with a ceramic one.

imacheezhead said:

I guess I'm gonna stay with the ceramic cat for now judging from what has been said so far.

After one heating season it was totally coming apart and was very difficult to remove without damaging the refractory

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What is that refractory made of that it should be so delicate? I read that refractories are generally made of non-metallic materials so why is mine made from cast iron? I guess I'm a little dumb in this department! :-S

Jim

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Hi Jim,
Many of the new stoves use ceramic fiberboard,firebrick etc. to aid in retaining heat and speed up the heating process to reduce pollution apparently an EPA phase II thing.. I am sure someone will chime in on this to better explain.. This is why I take care of this stove as it is much more durable than most of these stoves.. I did replace the fixed center grate today which makes for under $70.00 of parts used in 22 yrs.. I posted this in another thread and right now I am on my 4th seasoning fire with one more to go...

Ray

Refractory is any high temperature putty, cement, brick, wrapping or board. In the case of the VC stoves, is is a soft, mushboard that they use inside, for the cat chamber, to keep the temperature high. You can easily break it with your fingers, or scratch it away with your fingernails. To say nothing of smashing it with a log, if it is in the firebox (which it usually isn't on VC stoves). The cat on many VC stoves, like mine, fits into an opening in a refractory panel, and rests on two grooves cut in the sides. And distortion of the catalyst (and they do tend to distort over time) can tear the $400 (price guess) refractory box apart.

imacheezhead said:

I guess I'm gonna stay with the ceramic cat for now judging from what has been said so far.
What is that refractory made of that it should be so delicate? I read that refractories are generally made of non-metallic materials so why is mine made from cast iron? I guess I'm a little dumb in this department! :-S

Jim

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I found this thread interesting and useful, although it's difficult to draw a final conclusion. Some feel cats are going to go the way of the dinosaur. If that were the case I'd pick up a couple extras to get me into my 70s. From there, won't matter a whole lot, I suspect. I will be too worn and tattered to deal with firewood. By then stoves will go through plenty of change, as well.

Since my last post I have had a problem with performance (getting the cat to kick in) I actually removed the cat and found it was warped and clogged. I have a digital probe thermometer and make sure the temps stay within range.

I'm calling Condar for warranty replacement and will probably go back to ceramic.

This sucks because the stove really performed well until the last few weeks, I had some amazing burn times and easy to use stove. Now it takes forever to get the cat to light off.

imacheezhead said:

Many of the new stoves use ceramic fiberboard,firebrick etc. to aid in retaining heat and speed up the heating process to reduce pollution apparently an EPA phase II thing.

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Interesting! The Condar cats I've purchase over the last several years all have an insulating layer applied to the can. I guess this could serve a purpose similar to a non metallic refractory.

On another note. My stove was purchased in 1988 and according to what I've read I'm supposed to use a 1-1/2" thick cat, but my stove came with a 2". I could never make any sense of this so I have always been getting the 2" because I believe thicker is better even though it costs a little more.

Jim

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Mine came with a 2" cat too Jim and have always used that size.. As for the cat gasket it is called the interam gasket and acts to seal the cat to the chamber but it will not fit on my stove so I don't use it.. This gasket will expand when heated creating a tight seal so no gas/smoke escapes the cat..

Ray

imacheezhead said:

Mine came with a 2” cat too Jim and have always used that size.. As for the cat gasket it is called the interam gasket and acts to seal the cat to the chamber but it will not fit on my stove so I don’t use it.. This gasket will expand when heated creating a tight seal so no gas/smoke escapes the cat..

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Hi Ray,

That's what I read in the instructions for the cat too, but I always thought that the amount of gasses that can leak around the cat would be insignificant so I just wrote it off as overkill! The idea that it insulates it from the metal to some degree actually makes more sense to me.

I find it interesting that the cat won't fit your stove unless you remove it. Yes it does swell up after being fired which makes the cat difficult to remove for maintenance. I suspected my cat was getting lazy so I changed it and cleaned out the chimney a little. Removing the cat was somewhat difficult but I managed to get it out without damaging the gasket to much.

Jim

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Could be that my cat chamber is a little out of round? I only know that I couldn't fit the cat in with the gasket.. It works fine this way and I see no smoke coming out of the chimney.. Condar cats come with the gasket and mention that if the gasket will not fit just don't use it.. BTW I let the ashbin fill up again as the stove does run much better this way.. What I found was too many coals fell into the ashbin and the fire would go out leaving large pieces of unburned wood.. It's running good now plus I feel some ash in the bottom protects the stove from excessive heat...

Ray

imacheezhead said:

BTW I let the ashbin fill up again as the stove does run much better this way..

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I guess what ever works best for you. I can tell when my ash bin gets too full when I have trouble getting a decent fire. It's as though its starved for oxygen. How can you clean out the ashes during a burn? Do you let the fire go out to do this?

When I got my stove I purchased their ash cleaning kit that included a special tool that is designed to pull the ashes out of the the ash bin with the drawer removed. This tool is very handy and I would hate to be without it! Its also a lot less messy doing it this way although you will always have some mess no matter what you do.

Jim

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I have no problem getting a decent fire using side air only.. Experience is the best teacher I guess.. As for cleaning the ashes I leave a layer of ash on top of the shaker grates and simply shovel the excess ash out from the side door when the coals are nearly out.. Burning 24/7 I may do this once a week or so. I make much less mess doing it this way and use the free tools my stove came with.. I find I get much more mess taking out the ashpan than shovelling from the side door and rarely get any dust at all this way.. Whatever works best for you is what matters Jim..

Ray