IS 740 GALLONS ENOUGH STORAGE FOR A SOLO 60?

I would go with the 1110 gallons. The more storage, the less time between firings, the happier you are.

It is worth getting the additional tank if at all possible. It will make for a better system especially in the spring and fall. It's worth it.

Jimdeq get the extra storage . Hey if you can find me a couple of those tanks I would be interested too .

lots of factors, like how well insulated, what is your heating system- what temp do you need, how long are you hoping to go between fires, but maybe most importantly, is this a planned system or are you going to have to cut into it to add the third tank? If you're done or even close I'd finish it up and see how it goes before adding another 50% storage.

Thanks for the comments. I have read that it is very important to keep the plumbing in multiple tank situations exactly the same length. Is that possible with 3 tanks in parrallel?

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Page 4 of Bioheat's plumbing schematics pdf shows one way:

http://www.woodboilers.com/userfiles/file/Solo Innova Plumbing(1).pdf

(you may have to copy/paste this into your browser to get it to link)

Edit: Try this one, too.

http://www.woodboilers.com/admin/uploads/public/Solo Plus Plumbing.pdf

jimdeq said:

Thanks for the comments. I have read that it is very important to keep the plumbing in multiple tank situations exactly the same length. Is that possible with 3 tanks in parrallel?

Webie, I have a guy watching for these tanks. I will you let you know if he can find a couple more.

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thanks

jimdeq said:

Thanks for the comments. I have read that it is very important to keep the plumbing in multiple tank situations exactly the same length. Is that possible with 3 tanks in parrallel?

Webie, I have a guy watching for these tanks. I will you let you know if he can find a couple more.

Click to expand...

We usually use parallel/reverse return piping when connecting multiple tanks, radiators water heaters or just about anything else.

Simply bring your supply into tank 1, then 2 then 3 as normal. Then start the return at tank 1, go to tank 2, tee tank 3 into the line then head back to the boiler. The concept is to make the first tank off the supply the last one to get back to the main return line. Works great and very simple.

Tried to post a drawing but it says its wrong image type...........??????????? going to try again.............

I have a solo 60 with 1000g pressurized and that is a nice fit. 1 to 1.5 loads of wood to charge in the evening & you run for the next 24 hrs. I would plumb in series however. Simpler to plumb no need to "balance" piping.
Rob

RobC said:

I have a solo 60 with 1000g pressurized and that is a nice fit. 1 to 1.5 loads of wood to charge in the evening & you run for the next 24 hrs. I would plumb in series however. Simpler to plumb no need to "balance" piping.
Rob

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True in some cases. It depends on how the storage is incorporated into the system.

jimdeq said:

There seems to be alot of debate about series or parrallel in a 3 tank setup. Will parrellel give usable hot water quicker than series. Rob, I am glad to hear you are able to get 24 hours out of a full burn. How large are your heating loads and do you think you could get close to the same performance if you had only 750 gallons of storage?

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You would simply get less time between fires if you had less heat stored...

Hooking the tanks up in series allows for each tank to be at a different temp. The first charged is the hottest, middle tank is next, and the last tank is lowest. You then draw off of the hottest tank first. It would actually be possible to fully charge all three tanks, but if the load is high, then they would kind of end up stratified from tank to tank.

Hooked up in parallel each tank would have the hottest water at the top and lowest temp at the bottom. As they become fully charged the difference between top and bottom would shrink meaning that you have more heat stored. With series you don't have to worry about balancing the flow, but in effect both setups accomplish the same thing, just in a slightly different way.

We heat about 3000 sq ft. and 3 living at home. decent insulation, 20 year old home. Good solar gain with on sunny days. I will load Tarm in evening when the heat load is highest. Showers, dishwasher and I turn on circulator for basement radiant floor. Radiant floor I will let run for about 4 hours and shut off, that is more than enough heat for the next 24 hrs to make basement comfortable. This past winter was kinda mild. When we had cold days (day temps of 20 / nights in teens & single digits) AND no sun I found that I would start fires earlier 3 or 4 o'clock and burn to late. The Solo is nice because if you over load it a bit ( once storage is 180+ ) the stove will will cycle just as if you had no storage and continue to burn wood in fire box until it's out. So you will heat home from Tarm till 12 or 1 AM and then the rest of day from storage.
Does that help.
Rob

In an ideal design, a person would size the storage to the anticipated load and then size the boiler to the storage, making it large enough to satisfy the heating demand and charge the tank at the same time. You would also try to have the boiler output in the range where it would do both of those without having to shut down and idle excessively. In other words, not to big/not to small.

In heating work you always start with the load side of the equation, then look at what size equipment you need to support it.
The thing is, the load is always a moving target so it's better to have your storage on the upper rather than lower side of the scale. The boiler IMHO, would be better off the other way. Better a little light than over sized. If it has to burn nearly continuous for a couple days or weeks out of the year that is far better for it than idling.

Heaterman your correct for max efficiency. However situations do vary. Jimdeq already has a 60 so were not going to suggest a new stove. The question was, is more storage than 740G worthwhile ? I was sharing my experience with a 60 and 1000G storage. Personally I think a 60 could heat 1500 to 2000G quite nicely. I would have liked to do more than 1000G but I had space restrictions. So in my scenario, where I can only burn in the evenings, when I'm home, I cheat, when it's really cold. The Solo is very flexible and can be used with or with-out storage. So when it's really cold I heat storage to max then the stove starts to cycle and provide heat for a few more hours, that way, I get to the following evening with only lighting one fire. Last year I did this about 5 times. No it's not the most efficient but it works. Jimdeq is heating with forced air, like me, so it's nice to have 145 / 150 D water. That cuts into the storeable BTU's. It's just seems that if he could install more than 740 with that size boiler, for not much more, it would be beneficial.

Not trying to start an argument......
Rob

Didn't take it that way at all Rob. I've been dealing with the public/customer since I was old enough to show someone where the bolts were in my family's hardware store. An opinion expressed is just another method of learning.

My post was meant more as general information for anyone reading the thread than it was aimed specifically at a target. Carry on.

Back to the question in the original post...........

370 X 8.33 x 60* temp dif = 184,926 btu's stored. If the heat loss of the structure is 50-60,000 that's another three hours you can run off storage. Looking at it another way, the additional 370 would enable another hours worth (roughly) at full burn for a 60. To me it would hinge on whether any meaningful or helpful duration of time betwen firings could be gained and that all depends on the operators schedule. For example, if the current storage allows the operator to extract usable heat for a period of 6-7 hours and the additional tank would get him up to 9 or 10, it may be benificial from a boiler "babysitting" standpoint. At 9-10 hours a person can be gone most of the day and a nice steady 3 hour burn (in this case) will bring the storage back up to temp for another cycle.

RobC, we've got a similar situation to yours at home, 3000 sq. ft of living space, a eighteen year old home, fairly well insulated, a Solo Innova 50, and a thousand gallons of storage. You mentioned you would like to add more storage. How much more would you add, and what would you be aiming for in times between burns. I could possibly stack another tank above my 1000 gallon propane type pressurized tank. Now would be a good time to do it as I am starting my installation this weekend, after having had to put it off six months.

Mike

That all depends on your heat loss. If you have one, that will tell you how much you need to make it through 24 hours. If you don't I would advise taking the time to do one as that more than anything else will answer your question. Too many variables to guess what it might be based on sq ft of heated space alone. Another big factor is how low you can go with water temp in your storage before your emitters "run out of gas". Things like water to air coils in a duct system need fairly high temp (140*+ normally) to generate usable heat whereas a radiant floor or correctly sized panel rads will work well at 110* water.

Just another option is if you can increase your storage . I think your last design was boiler in garage and storage in basement . I can heat pretty good down to about 140 with my baseboard for our average winter day ,lows single digits and highs in the 20's but If it was way below zero I would need to pretty much keep the boiler going or at least 2-3 loads . I myself work thirds but fire in the morning when I get home . If its been a cold night and my storage couldn't keep up the house may have dropped a few degrees . I don't really worry about the fact it may only be 68 instead of 72 . Once the boiler is up and running the house recovers pretty quick and I start loading storage .
Your storage is just a convenience item anyways . Remember once the storage is charged or nearly charged your boiler will run just like it has no storage and burn when there is a call for heat . If its -20 and my storage is charged full and then a full load wood in the boiler 8 hours later there will be plenty of coal left to just reload the boiler with wood and go again . I have already had burns last 24 hours but that's not really a good idea .
Also Jim I am not sure what your family position is but these boilers really are not that difficult to operate , My girl friend wanted to learn just in case something would happen and now and again she gets it up and running . Once you have it all set the way you like and have gone thru the learning curve its very easy to show another how to operate it .
Another idea to that just came to mind is the fact of give your self the ability to expand your storage maybe down the road if you want to .
I am planning to add pressurized storage to my unpressurized storage .
Webie

This is really rough, but I am going to work on it.......
https://www.hearth.com/php/storage.php

It does those simple storage calcs for you.

Jimdeq -- you mention the practice of fueling the 60 and letting it cycle some to extend the usable time between fueling. Certainly OK, but here is where "more" storage will minimize that. With my 40, I heat pressurized storage to 190, top to bottom. If 1000G tank bottom is 150 and middle is 185, I know about how much wood I can still add to the 40 to get the tank to top off at 190 without cycling. Extra storage gets useful here in adding flexibility on that final fueling, or adding a larger margin of error, to top off without any cycling.

From a purely objective point of view, my 40 easily heats 1000G, so more than 740G for a 60 is a no-brainer for me, almost regardless of your heat loss. My new shop (Solo 40 soon to be moved in and installed) has a heat loss of 40,000 btuh, has in-floor heat, and I will have a maximum of 80* stored heat, which will give me 16 hours of stored heat under the coldest conditions (-30F), and much longer in normal conditions (0F).