Where is Gooserider?

BrotherBart said:

It took a while, and lots of bucks, but we have found that the KISS principle applies to wheelchairs too.

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True, and I'm keeping that in mind, but a lot of the stuff I've been reading and looking at also points out that there is a great deal of difference in what is needed depending not only on the level / type of handicap being dealt with, but the way the chair will be used as well... A lot less sophistication is needed in a chair that is only used for a short period of time for transport between places, and one that is getting sat in for 12-18 hours a day, every day as where one "lives" when not in bed...

The chair that is good for one purpose, would be either overkill, or likely to cause it's own form of damage, and so on depending on which way one was erring... At least right now, I'm going to be looking for the "live in" style chair, which I will be doing most of the pushing on, (I'm not sure I'll even get push handles on it) which makes for a much more stringent set of requirements

Gooserider

BrotherBart said:

Gooserider said:

BrotherBart said:

It took a while, and lots of bucks, but we have found that the KISS principle applies to wheelchairs too.

Click to expand...

True, and I'm keeping that in mind, but a lot of the stuff I've been reading and looking at also points out that there is a great deal of difference in what is needed depending not only on the level / type of handicap being dealt with, but the way the chair will be used as well... A lot less sophistication is needed in a chair that is only used for a short period of time for transport between places, and one that is getting sat in for 12-18 hours a day, every day as where one "lives" when not in bed...

The chair that is good for one purpose, would be either overkill, or likely to cause it's own form of damage, and so on depending on which way one was erring... At least right now, I'm going to be looking for the "live in" style chair, which I will be doing most of the pushing on, (I'm not sure I'll even get push handles on it) which makes for a much more stringent set of requirements

Gooserider

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Agreed. One thing to watch out for, height of the push handles. And do get them because you have no way of knowing when they could be needed. Get them the height of the most likely person to be pushing. I got her one with handles too low and my back was shot within 200 yards of pushing that chair. On level ground. The next one I matched the height to me standing straight up and pushing that thing is a piece of cake.

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Push handles are a really mixed bag... If they are tall, it may be good for the occasional "engine person" but a constant hassle for the person in the chair that is doing most of the pushing.... I've been put in a bunch of different chairs for trial and the push handles have been a frequent headache for me. One chair the handles would get me in the underarms everytime I reached back to grab the wheel rims for a push, or do other things - I was getting some serious bruises from them. Another didn't have that problem as bad, but the handles had an amazing ability to snag the sleeves of my T-shirt and stop me from being able to reach forwards. The current demo chair doesn't have push handles and I don't miss them a bit The back doesn't get me in the armpits, and there isn't any snagging of my clothing... If I need an emergency push handle, I might be able to swing my armrests backwards, though that would be pretty low. Might be worth asking if they have something that could be done on a quick detach basis that I could carry in the bag for use only when needed...

Gooserider

BrotherBart said:

All I can tell ya is all that I can tell ya.

Hang in there guy.

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I appreciate the advice and suggestions, but I think we are dealing with considerably different situations which make for a different set of requirements. I am not sure about the details of your wife's condition, (and it isn't really any of my business) but from your comments, it sounds like she is mostly bed-confined, and spends relatively little time in her chair, which is mostly used for transport from one place to another, with someone else doing most of the pushing... This implies that a lot of the design choices need to be made with the care-giver's comfort and convenience in mind, as well as the patient.

OTOH, I'm able to do most anything that doesn't require legs, and with a high degree of independence. The plan is that I will be spending most of my waking time (i.e. any time that the normal person would be out of bed) in my chair - 12-16 hours a day, and during that time I will be the one doing 99% of the pushing and other such things... This means that I have a lot more concerns about the health consequences of the chair design (i.e. avoiding pressure sores, ease of movement, etc) and relatively little need to worry about the convenience of others... (which doesn't come across right, but I'm not sure how to say what I mean....)

Gooserider

Gooserider said:

... but I'm not sure how to say what I mean....)

Gooserider

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You said it right, Goose.

When our son was young (4 yrs. old) he was fitted with double leg braces. We spent many, many hours with him trying, trying, trying to get him to use the under arm crutches - no luck. Tears, frustration reigned on both sides - child and parents. Then a friend in the medical field suggested forearm crutches. Ha! Five minutes after we showed him how they worked our son almost was 'running'.

The person who uses the medical equipment is the only one who can figure out 'what works for them'.

Best wishes, Goose. We have tons of medical bills here also. Please know you are in our thoughts and prayers daily.

Shari

Gooserider said:

BrotherBart said:

All I can tell ya is all that I can tell ya.

Hang in there guy.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the advice and suggestions, but I think we are dealing with considerably different situations which make for a different set of requirements. I am not sure about the details of your wife's condition, (and it isn't really any of my business) but from your comments, it sounds like she is mostly bed-confined, and spends relatively little time in her chair, which is mostly used for transport from one place to another, with someone else doing most of the pushing... This implies that a lot of the design choices need to be made with the care-giver's comfort and convenience in mind, as well as the patient.

OTOH, I'm able to do most anything that doesn't require legs, and with a high degree of independence. The plan is that I will be spending most of my waking time (i.e. any time that the normal person would be out of bed) in my chair - 12-16 hours a day, and during that time I will be the one doing 99% of the pushing and other such things... This means that I have a lot more concerns about the health consequences of the chair design (i.e. avoiding pressure sores, ease of movement, etc) and relatively little need to worry about the convenience of others... (which doesn't come across right, but I'm not sure how to say what I mean....)

Gooserider

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Awww, I don't know . . . I think I know what you're saying Goose . . . you're doing the right thing and plan to remain as independent as possible and not have to rely on others . . . which truly is the best way to face this issue . . . and what this means to me is that what works best for you is what matters most. I think what you said came across fine.

Shari said:

Gooserider said:

... but I'm not sure how to say what I mean....)

Gooserider

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You said it right, Goose.

When our son was young (4 yrs. old) he was fitted with double leg braces. We spent many, many hours with him trying, trying, trying to get him to use the under arm crutches - no luck. Tears, frustration reigned on both sides - child and parents. Then a friend in the medical field suggested forearm crutches. Ha! Five minutes after we showed him how they worked our son almost was 'running'.

The person who uses the medical equipment is the only one who can figure out 'what works for them'.

Best wishes, Goose. We have tons of medical bills here also. Please know you are in our thoughts and prayers daily.

Shari

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TreeDaughter, now 18, had several leg surgeries in late elementary and middle school. My how she hated those underarm crutches. Eventurally, she tried forearm crutches at a medical supply store and from that moment on never went back to the others. She still has issues, esp. on bad days, and still sometimes uses the crutches. She has bright (CalTrans) orange crutches now (the plastic parts are orange, not the metal parts).

As Shari said, the user is the best one to make the decision as to what works for them.

OTOH, my elederly FIL spent years trying to get his Medicare HMO to give him a "free" powerchair. Eventually, when it was basically too late, they paid about $6 grand for a chair (after his $1000 deductible). We could have gotten basically the same chair used from C/L for prolly $500, but he wanted his ins. to pay for it! He had lots of problems with his hands and fingers and was never able to successfully use the chair (couldn't control the "joystick"). After he passed, we tried for several weeks to sell the nearly new chair, but the market was flooded w/ used power chairs no one wants. We even had a hard time finding someplace to donate it to (wound up going to a local community college for them to loan out to disabled students).

Good Luck.

Peace,
- Sequoia

TreePapa said:

TreeDaughter, now 18, had several leg surgeries in late elementary and middle school. My how she hated those underarm crutches. Eventurally, she tried forearm crutches at a medical supply store and from that moment on never went back to the others. She still has issues, esp. on bad days, and still sometimes uses the crutches. She has bright (CalTrans) orange crutches now (the plastic parts are orange, not the metal parts).

As Shari said, the user is the best one to make the decision as to what works for them.

OTOH, my elederly FIL spent years trying to get his Medicare HMO to give him a "free" powerchair. Eventually, when it was basically too late, they paid about $6 grand for a chair (after his $1000 deductible). We could have gotten basically the same chair used from C/L for prolly $500, but he wanted his ins. to pay for it! He had lots of problems with his hands and fingers and was never able to successfully use the chair (couldn't control the "joystick"). After he passed, we tried for several weeks to sell the nearly new chair, but the market was flooded w/ used power chairs no one wants. We even had a hard time finding someplace to donate it to (wound up going to a local community college for them to loan out to disabled students).

Good Luck.

Peace,
- Sequoia

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This is one of many examples of the distortions of the marketplace that is caused by insurance co's and gov't regulations, that tend to put a "floor" on prices for new equipment, which prices it out of the reach of "self-pay" patients, (thus making it "more essential" that one get over-priced "covers everything" policies, and destroys the market for used equipment... This accident is essentially forcing me onto "Mass Health" and fencing me in on my options considerably - I will get ONE new chair every so often, but have a lot of limits on what I can get (Al frame only, no Ti frame, certain restrictions on what I get for wheels, etc...) If I want something fancier, I have to pay for the ENTIRE new purchase price, I can't just pay the difference in cost for an upgrade... On the flip side, I can't get any advantage from purchasing a used chair and saving a considerable amount of money that way.... However I may well be checking out the used market just in the interest of possibly getting different chairs for different tasks - such as skinny tires for low rolling resistance and manuverability inside, vs. something with fat knobbies and a bunch of camber for increased stability and traction when doing stuff outdoors...

Gooserider

Hi Goose,

My friend that is now in a wheelchair was a very avid mountain biker and road cyclist before his accident happened.
Riding quite a bit on mountain bikes and road bikes myself, I think a very good option you could have it to possible get a chair with interchangeble wheels and tires. Most have quick release mechanisms, that allow you to just pop the wheels on and off, so you can switch from a flat tread tire, to a more aggressive knobby type tire...would basically give you some options and keep the same chair....you would need to keep 2 sets of wheels and tires, but I think it is a good option. The road tires you could use for very flat surfaces, and the rolling resistance is very low....the knobbys you could take for a little more aggressive walks with yourself and Mary Anne...and I know you will be off the beaten path in no time.
I have ridden on steel frames, aluminum frames, and a few titanium frames....my current rides are both aluminum frames...the ti frames are lighter and somewhat stronger, but for the cost difference I think a aluminum set up would be fine for you.
Maybe I will see you tomorrow, and can talk a bit then.
Have a good night.
David

daveswoodhauler said:

Hi Goose,

My friend that is now in a wheelchair was a very avid mountain biker and road cyclist before his accident happened.
Riding quite a bit on mountain bikes and road bikes myself, I think a very good option you could have it to possible get a chair with interchangeble wheels and tires. Most have quick release mechanisms, that allow you to just pop the wheels on and off, so you can switch from a flat tread tire, to a more aggressive knobby type tire...would basically give you some options and keep the same chair....you would need to keep 2 sets of wheels and tires, but I think it is a good option. The road tires you could use for very flat surfaces, and the rolling resistance is very low....the knobbys you could take for a little more aggressive walks with yourself and Mary Anne...and I know you will be off the beaten path in no time.
I have ridden on steel frames, aluminum frames, and a few titanium frames....my current rides are both aluminum frames...the ti frames are lighter and somewhat stronger, but for the cost difference I think a aluminum set up would be fine for you.
Maybe I will see you tomorrow, and can talk a bit then.
Have a good night.
David

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Problem with dual wheel sets, which I'm also considering, is that the brakes on chairs work by digging into the tires, and as such the brake adjustment is very fussy - to loose and they don't hold, to tight and they are a bear to set and release, and at least on the chairs they've had me in at rehab, the brake adjustment is a serious PITA (IMHO gratuitously so, seems to me like a very poor design) I think the quick release on the wheels is well done, but it seems that being able to swap wheels easily is lost if one then has to spend half an hour resetting the brakes...

They do apparently make a few setups that work like disk brakes, but they are seriously expen$ive, not covered by insurance, and it isn't at all clear from the stuff I've read on them so far what they do in terms of interchangeability, fit, and so on. (and what would be needed in the way of parts to do interchangeable wheels)

Gooserider

Gooserider said:

daveswoodhauler said:

Hi Goose,

My friend that is now in a wheelchair was a very avid mountain biker and road cyclist before his accident happened.
Riding quite a bit on mountain bikes and road bikes myself, I think a very good option you could have it to possible get a chair with interchangeble wheels and tires. Most have quick release mechanisms, that allow you to just pop the wheels on and off, so you can switch from a flat tread tire, to a more aggressive knobby type tire...would basically give you some options and keep the same chair....you would need to keep 2 sets of wheels and tires, but I think it is a good option. The road tires you could use for very flat surfaces, and the rolling resistance is very low....the knobbys you could take for a little more aggressive walks with yourself and Mary Anne...and I know you will be off the beaten path in no time.
I have ridden on steel frames, aluminum frames, and a few titanium frames....my current rides are both aluminum frames...the ti frames are lighter and somewhat stronger, but for the cost difference I think a aluminum set up would be fine for you.
Maybe I will see you tomorrow, and can talk a bit then.
Have a good night.
David

Click to expand...

Problem with dual wheel sets, which I'm also considering, is that the brakes on chairs work by digging into the tires, and as such the brake adjustment is very fussy - to loose and they don't hold, to tight and they are a bear to set and release, and at least on the chairs they've had me in at rehab, the brake adjustment is a serious PITA (IMHO gratuitously so, seems to me like a very poor design) I think the quick release on the wheels is well done, but it seems that being able to swap wheels easily is lost if one then has to spend half an hour resetting the brakes...

They do apparently make a few setups that work like disk brakes, but they are seriously expen$ive, not covered by insurance, and it isn't at all clear from the stuff I've read on them so far what they do in terms of interchangeability, fit, and so on. (and what would be needed in the way of parts to do interchangeable wheels)

Gooserider

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Good point about the breaks....I didn't think it through that far....I was removing the wheel from my mtn bike to put on the rack, and I thought that this might be a good idea for a wheelchair...I'm wondering if there is some type of add on brake replacement for a chair that would allow you to adjust brakes relataivley quickly.

daveswoodhauler said:

Gooserider said:

Problem with dual wheel sets, which I'm also considering, is that the brakes on chairs work by digging into the tires, and as such the brake adjustment is very fussy - to loose and they don't hold, to tight and they are a bear to set and release, and at least on the chairs they've had me in at rehab, the brake adjustment is a serious PITA (IMHO gratuitously so, seems to me like a very poor design) I think the quick release on the wheels is well done, but it seems that being able to swap wheels easily is lost if one then has to spend half an hour resetting the brakes...

They do apparently make a few setups that work like disk brakes, but they are seriously expen$ive, not covered by insurance, and it isn't at all clear from the stuff I've read on them so far what they do in terms of interchangeability, fit, and so on. (and what would be needed in the way of parts to do interchangeable wheels)

Gooserider

Click to expand...

Good point about the breaks....I didn't think it through that far....I was removing the wheel from my mtn bike to put on the rack, and I thought that this might be a good idea for a wheelchair...I'm wondering if there is some type of add on brake replacement for a chair that would allow you to adjust brakes relataivley quickly.

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I've been looking a bit but so far the only stuff I've seen looks to be expensive and limited, which is a pity for sure...

I actually have an idea for adjusting a stock brake that I think would make life a lot simpler, I don't know why nobody has done it. Currently the adjustment in every brake that I've seen, is done by sliding an arm back and forth in a clamp, more or less by guess, clamping it down, see how it works, and repeat until satisfied. It would seem much easier to me if they could incorporate a pin and screw setup like we use to adjust the bar on a chainsaw. It would give much more precision and control when making the adjustment, and I'd think make it much faster.

Gooserider

We have a need like that with adaptive skiing. We use outriggers (crutches with ski tips) which brake based on the angle set. A bolt with a set nut adjusts how far the ski tip will flex before the it tilts and engages the brake. http://www.superlite.org/ Goose - if you ever are intersted in trying adaptive skiing let me know - I can help you find a place up your way or you are always welcome at out mountil (ok - it is a hill) near Gettysburg, PA.

Hunderliggur said:

We have a need like that with adaptive skiing. We use outriggers (crutches with ski tips) which brake based on the angle set. A bolt with a set nut adjusts how far the ski tip will flex before the it tilts and engages the brake. http://www.superlite.org/ Goose - if you ever are intersted in trying adaptive skiing let me know - I can help you find a place up your way or you are always welcome at out mountil (ok - it is a hill) near Gettysburg, PA.

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I sort of see what you mean, I think there are a lot of applications for that sort of setup where there is an adjustment pin for positioning and a second fastener to actually clamp the adjustment in place...

As to the adaptive skiing, I'm not so sure... I did a lot of water skiing when I was growing up to many years ago, but haven't been up since the late 70's, and even w/o the injury would have to learn all over again. Never had much interest in snow skiing, and the like, sort of lost interest in doing stuff outside in the snow when my father decided I was old enough to learn how to run the snow blower; after that I would do what I had to do outside in the snow, but most of my interest was in getting what I had to done, and then getting back inside where it was warm again....

I've never tried downhill skiing at all. I did try cross country once as part of one of those corporate "Team Building" retreats put on by one of my former employers. Not sure the rental equipment was the best (the boots were WAY narrower than my normal foot size and I found them downright painful to wear after a while) but I found that I wasn't at all good at doing the skiing, and I didn't enjoy myself enough to have any desire to do it again and get better...

Not saying I'll never give the adaptive stuff a try, but in all honesty, I wouldn't put it as much of a priority...

Gooserider

It's great to see you back posting again!

In Dec 97 I went to bed one night with 20/20 vision and woke up in the morning with a 95% vision loss from Diabetic Retinopathy. Needless to say this was a life changing event and I had a long fight ahead of me. I wish you the best of luck on your journey!

I would keep your eye on Capt. Tred Barta. He is one of the most avid and energetic sportsman I know that is now in a wheelchair. He is now back to doing his show and already working on things to get him back into big game fishing and hunting. He is one cocky SOB and I know he will not rest until he reinvents the wheelchair.

Goose, I was in the wheelchair business 20yrs ago, when new technology was just starting. You need to find yourself the one or two extreamly knowlegable salespeople or users in your state.
I new a guy that was attached to the Disabled Americans Veterans that knew chairs like the back of his hand. Basketball leagues are a great place to get good contacts. Plenty of guys work on and customize their own equipment.

gzecc said:

Goose, I was in the wheelchair business 20yrs ago, when new technology was just starting. You need to find yourself the one or two extreamly knowlegable salespeople or users in your state.
I new a guy that was attached to the Disabled Americans Veterans that knew chairs like the back of his hand. Basketball leagues are a great place to get good contacts. Plenty of guys work on and customize their own equipment.

Click to expand...

Good advice, and something I've been doing quite a bit of - there are lots of experienced users that run around here, with varying levels of injury, and I've been asking a lot of advice from them. The therapy program here also involves trying you in lots of different chairs to find things that both work for you and that you like (and that the insurance co. will pay for.... :roll: ) I feel pretty certain that the chair I leave the rehab in might not be the absolute ultimate, but it will be a reasonably good fit, and as good as I can get out of the insurance co. (For instance there is a set of wheels that I'd love to get, but that they won't buy me...)

Gooserider

I don't know if you managed to get the ramp built, but here's an option close by:

http://worcester.craigslist.org/mat/1714056849.html

CarbonNeutral said:

I don't know if you managed to get the ramp built, but here's an option close by:

http://worcester.craigslist.org/mat/1714056849.html

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So far no ramp. This does look like a good option in some ways, but I am not at all sure about moving it, or doing the demo and rebuild - I don't have the resources, and obviously I can't even think about trying to do much myself.

Would this be something I'd be able to call on our Hearth Folks for another build weekend? Or possibly two? This is something I'm thinking would be needing to be done as a two-phase project - presumably One or two days in Hudson doing the disassembly and transport to Billerica, (If I'm remembering where Hudson is, it's probably about an hour drive each way...) followed by a day or two of building in Billerica to put it back together.

I can probably line up some more resources in Billerica to help with the reconstruction, but none of my sources have a lot available in the way of transport.

I'm assuming that a 60' ramp, plus railings, footings, etc. will take a good bit of truck / trailer space to transport, especially depending on the length of the sections (Pictures look like 12-16' sections but it's hard to tell...)

Oh, and the timing would be CRITICAL - I am coming home next week, no question about it, ready or not! I'm currently scheduled to come home on Tuesday the 11th, but no matter what, I will be home by the 15th, as that is when the insurance coverage for the Rehab facility runs out....


Gooserider

hey goose
if you can get a carpenter or someone that has a clue on building and swinging a hammer, tim? we could make slices at the 4 x 4 supports. and take off the hand rails whole we could get that into a truck. rental truck. i used to drive truck for a living. i know my way around a truck. rent a truck that is a 20 foot box. we could do it. i think all that would be needed is a hammer and a sawzall.
we could do it in one trip. hudson is 35 to 40 mins from my house down 495.
if you want to go that route i'd be happy to drive. that sounds like a hell of a deal for $300.00

frank

Sounds like I've missed one opportunity to help out. I don't have an particular carpenter skills but I can follow directions and figure things out pretty well. Let me know when and where to be and I'll do my best to show up (PM me for my email for direct contact - I'm not on the forums as much as I used to be). If the "fleet of trucks" method is the desired approach I can show up with my wood hauler - F150 and carry a few sections I'm sure. May even be able to borrow a trailer.

I responded to the CL add last night. I left my #, so far no call or e-mail. I have a one ton truck and car trailer, and two large sons. I will be in Bilrica today doing the finish work on the bathroom. That ramp is a slammer deal. If anyone can get in touch with them and get back to me, we may be able to score it. Time is of the essence, since I must spend tomorow with my 78 y.o. mom. For the sake of expediency, my # is 508-280-8807. I am willing to do whatever I can to get that ramp, but must return to N.Y. for my job on monday.

I can help out as well depending when. 978 206 1010, Alex.