Outdoor Econoburn Refractory (and indoor econoburn)

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bpirger

Minister of Fire
May 23, 2010
632
Ithaca NY Area
Greetings All:

First post, have been reading, and looking seriously now for a wood boiler. We have decided it is time to purchase a gasifier. I've burned wood essentially forever and we currently heat our house with a Lopi Liberty. We are leaning strongly towards putting the gasifier outside. This has me looking at the outdoor gasifiers. I actually looked extensively through a Econoburn unit yesterday at the dealers place. I was surprised to see the refractory forming the bottom of the primary chamber, slot to the secondary, and top of the secondary chamber appear to be a "poured in place" refractory. I don't know if it is literally poured in place, it looks like concrete (not a firebrick material), though I assume it is a high temperature refractory material.

Is this the same material that is inside the indoor Econoburns? My understanding is the outdoor gasifier is an indoor model wrapped in a different "outdoor" housing.

Is this refractory replaceable? Do people ever have issues with them? I'd think eventually they'd break.

I also didn't see the u-shaped refractory in the secondary chamber below the "slot", though the unit had just arrived and by no means was in operation or set up. Perhaps it is in a box somewhere...the dealer wasn't present to ask questions at the time. There was a refractory "slate" in the secondary chamber, about 12" x 10", which perhaps is all that is used there? I know the pictures/movies I've seen of the indoor models have that u-shaped refractory block.

Thanks,
Bruce
 
I have a new Econoburn 150 indoor unit that came the same way. I too have been wondering why there is no U shaped refractory in secondary burn chamber. I plan to start installation of my unit this week. Would like to also know if this is proper or if the refractory was left out?

Dan
 
The early Econoburns had the U-shaped refractory in the lower chamber- at some point (I believe some time in 2008) they changed over to the slab-shaped one that both of you are describing (which is what I have, too).

I've run my Econoburn for 2 winters and see no sign at all of any erosion of the upper/ middle cast refractory.
 
I got to see both the indoor and outdoor units at the NE Expo a few weeks ago and talked with them about the lower chamber in particular. From what I have seen it is the extra flat piece of refractory that you slide in there that takes the contact of the hottest part of the gasification flame. My guess is that you will have to replace just that piece a few times in the life of the boiler. Even the best designed Euro gassers will have some replacement necessary over the life of the boiler. From the feedback I have heard from others, I don't hear about any erosion problems yet. Time will tell though. The company is known for outstanding service and I am sure that if there are any long term issues, they will resolve them. The design seems flexible enough to allow the replacement of these materials.
 
bpirger said:
Greetings All:

First post, have been reading, and looking seriously now for a wood boiler. We have decided it is time to purchase a gasifier. I've burned wood essentially forever and we currently heat our house with a Lopi Liberty. We are leaning strongly towards putting the gasifier outside. This has me looking at the outdoor gasifiers. I actually looked extensively through a Econoburn unit yesterday at the dealers place. I was surprised to see the refractory forming the bottom of the primary chamber, slot to the secondary, and top of the secondary chamber appear to be a "poured in place" refractory. I don't know if it is literally poured in place, it looks like concrete (not a firebrick material), though I assume it is a high temperature refractory material.

Is this the same material that is inside the indoor Econoburns? My understanding is the outdoor gasifier is an indoor model wrapped in a different "outdoor" housing.

Is this refractory replaceable? Do people ever have issues with them? I'd think eventually they'd break.

I also didn't see the u-shaped refractory in the secondary chamber below the "slot", though the unit had just arrived and by no means was in operation or set up. Perhaps it is in a box somewhere...the dealer wasn't present to ask questions at the time. There was a refractory "slate" in the secondary chamber, about 12" x 10", which perhaps is all that is used there? I know the pictures/movies I've seen of the indoor models have that u-shaped refractory block.

Thanks,
Bruce
Click to expand...
Better check or wait on NY DEC,s regulations . At this point that stove does not meet their Phase 2 requirements. You will have to throw it away in 10 yrs but will not be a throw away if you put it in your home
 
Thanks for the responses. I'll have to get in touch with the local dealer and see what he has to say about the refractory...though I'm not sure how much he will actually know.

I'm not sure if I'd prefer a "fire brick" refractory which can be presumably readily replaced or not. I see the Empyre (Pro-Fab, used to be Greenwood Aspen) is that way. My local dealer has these as well....looks like I could take all the firebricks out. I'd kinda like to actually go and do that...see what holds the firebricks up in the primary chamber. It almost looks like it is all a stack of refractory, forming the bottom of the primary chamber and the top of the secondary. I'd have to think a few years of dropping wood in there will takes it toll. I know the firebrick in the Lopi have cracked over the last 7 years.

Shagy...I'll have to learn about NY's plans. I think there is a thread here about it. Phase II requirement for sales after 2010 and then forced removal after 2020? Wow. I wonder out where I am if it will be enforced. Will they drill a hole in one's firebox?

I guess that puts the Garn out of contention as well. In fact, I know of only three outdoor gasifiers that are Phase II certified: The Empyre (Greenwood), Maine-Portage (or something...from Canada), and the Central Boiler line. If the CB-2400 would work, it might not be a bad choice, given its water....but I know the 2300 had a poor history. Though I find it hard to believe where I live, out in the woods (nearest neighbor 0.5mile away) anyone would ever know....
 
bpirger said:
Thanks for the responses. I'll have to get in touch with the local dealer and see what he has to say about the refractory...though I'm not sure how much he will actually know.

I'm not sure if I'd prefer a "fire brick" refractory which can be presumably readily replaced or not. I see the Empyre (Pro-Fab, used to be Greenwood Aspen) is that way. My local dealer has these as well....looks like I could take all the firebricks out. I'd kinda like to actually go and do that...see what holds the firebricks up in the primary chamber. It almost looks like it is all a stack of refractory, forming the bottom of the primary chamber and the top of the secondary. I'd have to think a few years of dropping wood in there will takes it toll. I know the firebrick in the Lopi have cracked over the last 7 years.

Shagy...I'll have to learn about NY's plans. I think there is a thread here about it. Phase II requirement for sales after 2010 and then forced removal after 2020? Wow. I wonder out where I am if it will be enforced. Will they drill a hole in one's firebox?

I guess that puts the Garn out of contention as well. In fact, I know of only three outdoor gasifiers that are Phase II certified: The Empyre (Greenwood), Maine-Portage (or something...from Canada), and the Central Boiler line. If the CB-2400 would work, it might not be a bad choice, given its water....but I know the 2300 had a poor history. Though I find it hard to believe where I live, out in the woods (nearest neighbor 0.5mile away) anyone would ever know....
Click to expand...
The DEC proposal will only effect you when you put your stove outside your home in a building not ocupied by humans.In that case no matter when bought it has to pass phase 2 testing or it will have to be thrown awayin 10 yrs.

On the fire brick check cost. but make sure you use something.

All the outdoor gassers had some problems to start as did some indoor ones . Portage Maine is still having problems. They also did not make Phase 2 yet. Check EPA web site www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html
2 north country county's have passed resolution's telling the DEC to leave this matter to local enforcer's and do not agree with the throw away issue of stoves after 10 yrs. Many towns have the same. Thats in the real upstate. You live in a very different world (Thompkins CO) Lots of book smart people but very little common sense. Sorry... Good luck to ya
 
Hi Shagy:

Well, I hear what you are saying....I don't know the Tompkins county position, I'm actually outside in Tioga county. This is an interesting issue for Ithaca folks. On one hand it is very green and I'd have to say gasifiers should be well received....though folks buring garage and tires have no doubt caused valid complaints.

I'd have to think, as I have read mentioned in the other thread, that this law will provide the teeth to do something with a stove that is a constant offender. But who knows....

Personally I'm not very keen on putting the gasifier inside. Had a house fire when I was young...I got out, my brother didn't. A gas pilot light ignited gasoline that was accidently spilled in the basement. I can't imagine that a 2000 degree fire would be a great mix.

Do any of the gasiifiers offer an outside combustion air ducting possibility? I keep tinkering with the garage idea (attasched), but just dread the though of that accident spill in Feb when the stove is in full burn. I've been a bit fearful of explosive gases all of my life as a result.
 
Hi bpirger,

I live in Dryden, NY and I've bought an Econoburn 150 that I'm installing in a boiler room in my barn this summer. I'd love to have you drop by and discuss and see my planned install if you ever have any time. If you're interested, drop me a line at [email protected] and I'll give you directions to my place. I'm about a mile from TC3 off route 13. Now that I've got the unit in the barn I have to figure out how to get it off the pallet without tipping it over : > ) One step at a time.

-David H.
 
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