How far south does a gasification boiler make sense?

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obie1kanobe

Member
Jul 7, 2010
10
North Carolina
I live in North Carolina, climate zone 7 at 1200 feet. After spending hours reading this forum, I don't see a path that works financially for a gasification storage system. Can anyone suggest one?

My heating costs were $600 for the year. ($150 each for Dec, Jan, Feb, $70 for Nov, March)

There are two adults and water-heating costs are guesstimated at $500 a year--based on 25% of the electric bill for April (no heat and no air conditioning.)

Wood would be free since I can cut 4 to 8 inch trees from my own land. (I'm 63 so I won't be able to do that forever.)

The house is 10 years old, pretty well insulated, with double pane windows. It's on a small windy hilltop with no close neighbors. It's 2000 heated sq feet on two floors with a separate heat pump system for each flour. (One in the attic crawl space and one in the unfinished basement.) There's not a good spot to add a fireplace, a stove or a wood furnace. A shed would need to be constructed for a gasification boiler, storage tank, and wood storage next to the garage. The basement has one above ground wall but it's at the bottom of a steep hill--difficult to get wood there, and the chimney would need to be 4 stories high. (basement, 2 floors, and attic peak)

There are a couple of reasons for looking at wood heat. (1) We're looking at solar-electric but that doesn't make sense unless we have wood heat. (2) We loose power due to freezing rain, and/or high wind about 6 times a year for 4 to 8 hours. We have an unvented gas fireplace but it costs 50% more to heat the house with it than with the heat pump. (3) We fear that electricity rates will increase and reliability of the grid will decrease in the coming years.

Gasification costs look to be in the $10 to $15 K area. I started looking at OWB but the best site, next to the garage, will most often blow smoke directly against the house. I then looked at EPA rated OWB stoves but they are only the larger more expensive units--without storage they probably wouldn't work very well. Once I found this site, gasification and storage makes the most sense but seems to come with a 10 to 15 year payback for my situation.

Any suggestions or is my current heating bill just too low?
 
No it doesnt make sense to go that route. I would just add a free standing wood burner somewhere in the house and then your not tied into a big investment and it will help tremendously with your heating bill
 
We're in southern Tennessee. Latitude 35.2 N. Average temp Oct to March about 38F. I did it because significantly improving the efficiency of our 4800 sqft, 150 year old home would be very difficult and we, like you, have lots of free wood. My propane costs would approach $3-4k/year heating to keep the drafty place comfortable. We kept temps at 62-64 just to manage absurd propane bills before the last season. So for me at about the same latitude as you it was a matter of getting a cheaper energy source rather than making the house significantly more energy efficient. You on the other hand are already far more efficient with reasonable energy costs. My payback is probably 4 years, but for us its also about being confortable. Your payback on realistically a $10k system without storage is approaching 10-12+ years (pretty poor). If your gonna do some wood boiler go ahead and do gassification. The additional cost is not that much to avoid the smoke and reduce your time dragging and splitting. It's a lot of work, time, and investment given your energy costs. I enjoy the whole process, but you better. It's a big commitment. Seems like a really good indoors wood stove in the basement to supplement may be good for you, but I don't know anything about that topic.
 
07/06/2010 $120.09
06/04/2010 $95.25
05/05/2010 $97.11
04/06/2010 $137.99
03/05/2010 $200.95
02/03/2010 $222.88
01/06/2010 $258.91
12/04/2009 $120.92
11/04/2009 $114.07
10/06/2009 $90.47
09/03/2009 $105.31
08/05/2009 $110.54
07/07/2009 $100.50
06/04/2009 $92.73

I live in a much colder Nebraska and the above is a cut and paste from the utility company's online billing system. We had a much colder winter last year and my highest electric bill was only $258. I'm approaching the $15k territory with my EKO 40 in the pole barn, chimney, piping, circs, insulated underground PEX to house, and HX in my existing forced air system. The house is 2200 sq ft. ranch with unfinished basement built in 2009 using conventional stick built construction and insulation. I have a single 4 ton heat pump. I only heated 2 days at the end of the season last winter with the EKO to test it after finally getting the HX installed. I still have a 1000 gal propane storage tank to add to the pole barn this summer. The utility has winter rates for those with electric heat which makes a big difference. It will take me a long time to pay back the EKO setup under the current electrical costs. If the Cap and Trade stuff becomes reality this may change. One benefit is having a warm pole barn but I have that so well insulated it wouldn't take much to heat either if I had to do it some other way.

I would say your instincts are probably correct. Use the gas fireplace when your power goes out. Now if you need a hobby that's another story. It is pretty neat to be self sufficient in case the country were to change drastically for the worse. One concern is I still need electricty. The air handler is only going to run on a generator for me. You could use staple up radiant or something similar with low power requirements but even that would probably not run on battery very long. Your gas fireplace for backup looks pretty good for those power outages. We have a wood fireplace that I figured would keep us and pipes from freezing until we could get the generator going.
 
An average free standing wood burner can put out 20k btu easy. That's all you need. It's a lot cheaper than a gassifier but check into and eko 18 and keep it in the basement if you have one or close to the house to save insulated tube.
 
I would agree that you are looking at a stove rather than a boiler.

I am at 39 degrees lat, we had both stoves going, but then it was snowing further up.
 
I agree with a stove and maybe add a heat pump water heater. I'm going to add one for the off season. It will dehumidify and air condition my basement while providing very economical DHW.

I think your return on investment would be much better on a nice stove than a gasser setup.
 
$600 a year......holy smokes......that would be a dream!!!!! I've had years where I spend that in two months with natural gas, 90% effecient furnace.
 
Thanks for the replies. The problem with an inside stove is that there's no place to put it. They built this house with too many small rooms on the first floor and they all have two or three doors.

I've never heard of a heat pump water heater. I'll have to check that out.


Thanks again.
 
There are several heat pump water heaters on the market. Two that are attached to tanks. The problem I see with those is the tank will go before the heat pump does.

I am going to go with this one

http://geyserheatpump.com/

and use a separate tank. Then the tank can be replaced without changing out the pump. And the whole expense qualifies for the 30% fed credit.

And I should add it will install right into your existing electric water heater. Watch the video on the site.

no, I have no monetary interest in these, just my opinion after several years of research.
 
Have you looked into solar panels ? Their expensive but the evacuated tube type look interesting. Generates hot water on cloudy days etc.....
Rob
 
Yes, I considered them. The advantage of the heat pump is it will dehumidify the basement and the investment is substantially less and I really only need it in the summer, when I also need to dehumidify the basement.

I would have to run underground lines to my shop to get the only sun on the property as well.
 
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