I’m placing order and installation for either the Hampton HI300 or the Clydesdale wood insert this week. I had the guy over from the fireplace store this past weekend to give me the estimate. He said everything looked good for either insert and my flute was about 16 feet long. About 8ft of the chimney stands on its own from the roof of the single floor room of the back of the house, it’s a brick chimney. I asked him how he was going to insulate the liner and he said he doesn’t insulate the liner. I asked why, his explanation was that you get condensation around the liner even if you insulate it or not. The insulation gets wet and damaged and it renders it useless after a while. My questions are: Is it ok not to insulate the liner? Plus I need to get a permit from the town for this job, what things are they going to look for, will not having it insulated cause a problem?
Insulate liner or Not?
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Yes, insulate the liner. If the fireplace guy has been seeing it get wet, it sounds like it's not condensation, but leakage from the top cap. You want a top cap with a 1" lip. That creates a drip edge. The cap should be sealed with a generous bead of high quality silicone on the cleaned surface of the flue tile or chimney crown. The storm collar gets a bead of silicone too.
If you are anxious about the insulation, ask the dealer about using a pre-insulated liner like Simpson duraliner. The inspector should certify that the chimney passes a level 2 inspection as per NFPA 211 guidelines. If not, in order to bring the liner up to UL1777 specs, it needs to be insulated. Be sure the chimney is thoroughly cleaned first. After the work is done, take pictures and post them here. Especially take some good shots of the top cap.
If you are anxious about the insulation, ask the dealer about using a pre-insulated liner like Simpson duraliner. The inspector should certify that the chimney passes a level 2 inspection as per NFPA 211 guidelines. If not, in order to bring the liner up to UL1777 specs, it needs to be insulated. Be sure the chimney is thoroughly cleaned first. After the work is done, take pictures and post them here. Especially take some good shots of the top cap.
cmonSTART
Minister of Fire
Yup. In addition to what BeGreen said, which is exactly why we insulate every liner we do, it will also perform better and stay cleaner.
Add another to those who think insulation is better. I added extra insulation along the top of the chimney around the liner. It's generally the coolest part of the chimney and my thinking is if I can keep it warmer and the gasses flowing faster, I may have less crap to clean out of it.
I'm wondering how a homeowner knew to call him back for condensation. I'm thinking there must have been a pretty bad leak at the top from rain.
Matt
I'm wondering how a homeowner knew to call him back for condensation. I'm thinking there must have been a pretty bad leak at the top from rain.
Matt
btuser
Minister of Fire
Sooooo, water is going to contaminate mineral insulation to the point it won't keep the liner hot? Are you sure he's not using fiberglass batt insulation?
If your chimney is inside, you probably don't have to insulate (from what I've heard). If you're chimney is outside, you probably should insulate (from what I've heard). Its up to you and whether you think its worth it but if I was a chimney guy I would rather be selling + cleaning insulated liners than uninsulated.
If your chimney is inside, you probably don't have to insulate (from what I've heard). If you're chimney is outside, you probably should insulate (from what I've heard). Its up to you and whether you think its worth it but if I was a chimney guy I would rather be selling + cleaning insulated liners than uninsulated.
Just a couple or so facts. Mineral or ceramic insulation ain't gonna hold water lately. One of its strong points. And I have about the same weather as Jersey and don't have insulated liners and they both draft like vacuum cleaners. And with dry wood accumulation is negligible. If the tiles in the chimney are damaged that is a different story. Gotta be insulated in that case. And also you won't ever know if they crack some day down the line so insulating going in is a good thing to do.
I sometimes have to wonder how a 22 gauge pipe in your living room is safer than a stainless liner inside of ceramic flue tiles surrounded by a foot or more of air space and bricks. When a few inches of airspace is just fine where double wall pipe goes through your attic.
I sometimes have to wonder how a 22 gauge pipe in your living room is safer than a stainless liner inside of ceramic flue tiles surrounded by a foot or more of air space and bricks. When a few inches of airspace is just fine where double wall pipe goes through your attic.
Well I made my decision I went with the Regency Hampton HI300, but I needed to get the oversized plate because the hearth opening was 39width x 31Height. Also I spoke with three local dealers (when I mean local within 45 miles) about insulating the liner, two out of the three said they don’t insulate the liner, just burn well seasoned wood and get flue cleaned yearly. In addition I spoke with the town inspector and he said that you do not need to get the liner insulated also. So I’m not getting it insulated. Thank you everyone for your help. What is the best type of wood to burn and best storage method I think I’m going to buy two cords for this winter do you think that is enough? I’m also starting to scrounge around for free fire wood for next season, so it will be well seasoned.
cmonSTART
Minister of Fire
Just to jump into the insulation debate...
I have a 25ft chimney. NON-insulated, 6in. flex liner inside a masonry chimney lined with rectangular clay tile.
I burn 24/7 wood heat only.
less than 1 gallon of creosote in each of the past 2 years I've been burning.
Practically speaking, insulation is a waste of money for my installation.
I would try your chimney setup without insulation and see how it goes. Only add it if there is a problem.
I have a 25ft chimney. NON-insulated, 6in. flex liner inside a masonry chimney lined with rectangular clay tile.
I burn 24/7 wood heat only.
less than 1 gallon of creosote in each of the past 2 years I've been burning.
Practically speaking, insulation is a waste of money for my installation.
I would try your chimney setup without insulation and see how it goes. Only add it if there is a problem.
If I got a gallon of soot when I cleaned either the 34 or the 22 foot chimney with uninsulated liners liners into tile chimneys I would be pissed. There is five feet of insulation packed around the liners at the top of the chimneys where they are above the roof. Not sure that it does anything. But it is there.
ansehnlich1
Retired Hearth.com Member
I burned on a 8 inch terra cotta lined brick exterior chimney the first couple years. Then lined it with a stainless flex, and insulated. Sweep just crawled up there the other day and didn't even brush it. Said it didn't need it, call him next year.
precaud
Minister of Fire
You didn't say how much and what kind of wood you burned, but I agree, 1 gallon is alot, about four times what I get from cleaning either of mine.
ansehnlich1
Retired Hearth.com Member
precaud said:
Not sure if you were referencing my post but I shove 5 to 6 cord through my oslo every winter. We built this house 3 or 4 years ago, filled the 275 gallon oil tank back then, and it's currently 7/8ths FULL %-P
precaud said:
24/7 means 4.5 cords of anything I can find.
less than a gallon means LESS THAN a gallon. My TOTAL amount of creosote collected for 2 years fits in a gallon can with room to spare.
The point is that without insulation I have not had creosote buildup to make it worth the extra $. A sweep told me to clean when I have 1/4 inch build up on the sides and I haven't seen that yet.
This is for MY installation of course. If you burn a season and see a large buildup... insulate your liner. If not, buy another toy with the money.
Keep Burn'n,
precaud
Minister of Fire
Sounds like you're in the ballpark, then.
I don't see creosote reduction as a reason to insulate a liner. The main functional benefit of insulation is to maintain draft at lower burn rates, making the stove more controllable and predictable.
I don't see creosote reduction as a reason to insulate a liner. The main functional benefit of insulation is to maintain draft at lower burn rates, making the stove more controllable and predictable.
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