BTU Insert Vs Free Standing Pellet Stove

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
doublewide

doublewide

Member
Jun 14, 2010
119
Eastern PA
So is there a difference in BTU's produced depending if a stove is an insert or free standing model? Also if a stove is 55,000 BTU is that rating given with the stove running on the highest setting? I know my stove Breckwell P2000FS is not supposed to run on the highest setting (5) for longer than a few hours. Anyone know the answers to these questions?
 
generally, the only "fair" assessment of the output abilities of a stove are the BTU ratings. Shouldn't really matter much if its an insert of a freestander. if the stove is rated to 55,000 btu's then, yes, its is the max running on high setting.
 
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
 
doublewide said:
I know my stove Breckwell P2000FS is not supposed to run on the highest setting (5) for longer than a few hours. Anyone know the answers to these questions?
Click to expand...

That is correct. If you let it run for much longer it will overheat and hit the high limit switch. Then you would need to disasseble the stove to reset the switch. Main problem when you hit the high limit, It shuts every thing down. So there is a chance you may get smoke in the house from it just shutting completely off with fuel left burning in the burnpot.

I think the biggest reason is they do not have enough convection blower capacity to properly keep the stove cool enough on the highest setting. Some stoves have the 5 setting completely removed. So your highest setting is #4.

There is also a warning about runmming higher than the 3rd setting while using the thermostat. Same reason as the 5 setting but slightly different cause. When the stat reaches the temp, The stove will automatically go to the low fan setting. T fan doesn't cool the stove quick enough to lower the temp and it hits the high limit switch and it shuts down.

My suggestion if the stove doesn't keep you warm enough and you most use the 5th setting, Is to do what I did and sell it. Then purchase a larger stove to handle your heat load.
 
My suggestion if the stove doesn’t keep you warm enough and you most use the 5th setting, Is to do what I did and sell it. Then purchase a larger stove to handle your heat load.


My stove is not having a problem keeping up. I was just wondering about how all the different stove manufacturers come up with their BTU ratings. Thanks for the info.
 
Trickyrick said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

I have seen a few stoves have a EPA rating after the testing we needed for the rebate program. If the stove got a 75% rating its going to be the listed BTU's minus 25%

Check the Enviro mini it has the EPA rating and the corrected BTU's.

•75% Efficiency
•EPA Tested 1.6 g/hr emissions
•Maximum BTU’s 30,000
•8,055 - 22,584 BTU's

http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/pellet/freestanding-fireplace.html#mini

The EF3BI also has the details

•75.8% Efficiency
•EPA tested 1.1 g/hr emissions
•Maximum 40,000 BTU’s.
•BTU's - 11,178 - 32,567

http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/pellet/freestanding-fireplace.html#EF3Bi
 
I bet there's some type of "ethics" thing that prevents listing outputs. If you, the user, refuse to clean the heat exchangers then the efficiency drops. The stove can only regulate how much is fed into the system, not how that heat is managed afterwards. Savvy marketing tells them to list the BTU inputs because it is a higher number, and people like big numbers when it comes to stuff like that. Falls right in line with Sq. Footage estimates.....800-2000 square feet heating capacity, wow, thats a broad range, but most people just see the 2000.
 
Trickyrick said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
 
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
 
BTU's aside....much easier to maintain a free standing pellet stove.
 
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
 
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
Click to expand...
sorry, thought u'd already asked before making your statement about btu output, duh
 
as an insert owner, I sometimes wish i had purchased a free-standing model instead. I would like to burn wood perhaps on occasion and I can't do that any more. But, it's also less permanent. I can remove my stove and put my flu back in with no lasting hole in the siding/wall/etc.

Plus, free standing units have better ash pans (in general). Most of you can empty your ash drawer while the stove is running. I can't.
 
j-takeman said:
doublewide said:
I know my stove Breckwell P2000FS is not supposed to run on the highest setting (5) for longer than a few hours. Anyone know the answers to these questions?
Click to expand...

That is correct. If you let it run for much longer it will overheat and hit the high limit switch. Then you would need to disasseble the stove to reset the switch. Main problem when you hit the high limit, It shuts every thing down. So there is a chance you may get smoke in the house from it just shutting completely off with fuel left burning in the burnpot.

I think the biggest reason is they do not have enough convection blower capacity to properly keep the stove cool enough on the highest setting. Some stoves have the 5 setting completely removed. So your highest setting is #4.

There is also a warning about runmming higher than the 3rd setting while using the thermostat. Same reason as the 5 setting but slightly different cause. When the stat reaches the temp, The stove will automatically go to the low fan setting. T fan doesn't cool the stove quick enough to lower the temp and it hits the high limit switch and it shuts down.

My suggestion if the stove doesn't keep you warm enough and you most use the 5th setting, Is to do what I did and sell it. Then purchase a larger stove to handle your heat load.
Click to expand...

Seems odd that the stove would not be designed to work at capacity day after day. We ran the Quad 1200i all winter long for 5 years on high. There was no warning against doing so in the manual. It worked fine.
 
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
Click to expand...
sorry, thought u'd already asked before making your statement about btu output, duh
Click to expand...
didn't have to ask anyone, i have been selling them for 10yrs...
 
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick" date="1282693248 said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
Click to expand...
sorry, thought u'd already asked before making your statement about btu output, duh
Click to expand...
didn't have to ask anyone, i have been selling them for 10yrs...
Click to expand...

So if a stove can burn 5 pounds of pellets per hour and your stove has a max output of 42,000 BTUs That calculates to the 8400 BTUs per pound which is dead center of the range that pellet manufacturers say their pellets can produce when burned... You are saying your stoves are 100% efficient and all of those BTUs make it to your room?

Do you sell many bridges too? Is there a brand that sells their stove with their ratings that tell you how much heat you get output to the heated space?
 
Enviro lists the BTU input and the efficiency, so you can do some math if you like.
 
Thank you Delta-T that make more sense.
 
Trickyrick said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves" date="1282785501 said:
Trickyrick" date="1282693248 said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
Click to expand...
sorry, thought u'd already asked before making your statement about btu output, duh
Click to expand...
didn't have to ask anyone, i have been selling them for 10yrs...
Click to expand...

1.
You are saying your stoves are 100% efficient and all of those BTUs make it to your room?
2.
Do you sell many bridges too?
Click to expand...


1. no, i'm saying they rate them on btu output, if you cant do the math i cant help ya
2. sure, got lots of bridges in stock, but none for you!
 
amick780 said:
BTU's aside....much easier to maintain a free standing pellet stove.
Click to expand...

Amen to that one as I sit here looking at two inserts....................
 
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Trickyrick said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP said:
Wood Heat Stoves said:
BLIMP" date="1282786066 said:
Wood Heat Stoves" date="1282785501 said:
Trickyrick" date="1282693248 said:
The BTU rating is NOT the btus produced. That is the rating of the BTUs the stove will burn at the max setting. Remember some % of that goes up the flue.

If a stove burns 4 pounds per hour then that equates to X BTUs. So the output number is really a measure of how fast the stove is rated to burn pellets.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does any stove company rate their BTUs based on heat output to the room?
Click to expand...

ok, i'll correct you.
pellet stove btu's are rated as output, not input.
Click to expand...
& how would that coincide with the quality of pellets?
Click to expand...

ask a stove manufacturer- thats thier gig
Click to expand...
sorry, thought u'd already asked before making your statement about btu output, duh
Click to expand...
didn't have to ask anyone, i have been selling them for 10yrs...
Click to expand...

1.
You are saying your stoves are 100% efficient and all of those BTUs make it to your room?
2.
Do you sell many bridges too?
Click to expand...


1. no, i'm saying they rate them on btu output, if you cant do the math i cant help ya


I'm always willing to learn something new. Please help me to understand what I'm missing with my Harmon and with others? Doing math isn't a problem, it is the concept of any stove being 100% efficient that goes against the rules of thermodynamics. Even as posed above Enviro is only 75% efficient and its usable heat (output) is less than the rating of the total wood it can burn (input).
2. sure, got lots of bridges in stock, but none for you!
Click to expand...
 
Trickyrick

AFAIK, Nothing burning fuel is 100% efficient. There is always a heat loss factor in there some where. All you can do is try to reduce the heat loss as best possible. To be 100% efficient every BTU would have to stay in the house and nothing could be sent outside the appliance.

A pellet stove will loss it at the heat exchanger area. Some thermal heat will pass it and go out the vent. You would have to see basically cold air coming out the vent if the stove was 100% efficient or at least the same temp as outside air(stoves with an OAK) or the room air(no OAK) temp where the stove is located.

If you check NG boilers and forced air furnaces, You will see a efficiency rating with them as well. Best I have seen are in the 90% range and are usually higher priced. So for every BTU that is burned only 90% of the heat is captured the rest will exit out the vent pipe.
 
20lbs of pellets with 5% MC contain 1lb of water which will require 9700 BTU to remove? & then theres the mystery of how much excess combustion air the stove uses which airwashes the heat out of the stove.
 
For what its worth a free standing stove usually will have a bigger ash pan and a bigger fuel hopper. it will also be far easier to maintain as everything is in the open. You also have to contend with the extra exhaust pipe going up the chimney.
 
rona said:
For what its worth a free standing stove usually will have a bigger ash pan and a bigger fuel hopper. it will also be far easier to maintain as everything is in the open. You also have to contend with the extra exhaust pipe going up the chimney.
Click to expand...

X2 Plus the hopper lid is larger and easier to load. There are a few members here that have free standing stoves setup in front of the fireplace.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Help with Whitfield advantage II free standing hopper issue
Replies
2
Views
510
The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves
Tiger87kk
T
A
Does a Short, Free-Standing, Side or Front Loading Pellet Stove Exist?
Replies
4
Views
849
The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves
EbS-P
EbS-P
D
Serenity Pellet Stove Heat Setting Wont Save
Replies
0
Views
227
The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves
Dstroh1220
D
B
Worried about my Old pellet stove
Replies
3
Views
476
The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves
bogieb
bogieb
B
Worried about my Old pellet stove
Replies
0
Views
242
The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves
Brandonjr36
B
Top Bottom
Back