Advice on Moving Econburn Into Basement

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heat4steve

Member
Jul 15, 2009
65
Rochester Ny
I want to put an Econonburn 150 into the basement and need some advice on how to safely do this. Access to the basement is through a 48" wide masonry stairway that descends through a cover porch. I will have to take off the fan cover an front doors to assure enough clearance (which will remove some weight) but this baby will still be quite heavy. I will build a wood frame around th boiler to protect it druing the move and help it slide down the stairs. Then I have to get it on its side, get it on the porch, glide it to the stairs, and some how winch it down. I expect many you have a similar or more difficult situation. In any case any advice or past experience would be appreciated.

One other thing, as a backup, I did find a mover who would do it for $380 using four guys and an appliance dolly. He said it is similar to moving a gun safe which can weigh upto 1600 lbs. Although it would be interesting to see how four guys can achieve this I rather not part with money uncessarily.
 
Most of us have accomplished this feat with several friends, several dolly's, several straps/ropes and more than one case of beer.

I think you'll see a few here post some pictures of down-stairs descents. I've seen it done with a couple of 2x10's running the length of the stairs and the boiler laying on it's back. Slide it down with a winch of some sort attached to the top (typically attached to the pipe in the top of your boiler if there is one, that is a strong connection point. Doing it this way you'll probably need to build a strong box around the boiler like you said. You don't want to damage the boiler covers.

I personally spent the better part of a day unloading my boiler and getting it into my walk-out basement with less than stellar tools/equipment and two friends. If I could get it done by pro's for $200 I'd consider it. But $380 is a lot of cabbage, I think you can do it...
 
I believe the EB has a top welded eye, you just need to remove a plate if I remember right. I would recommend buying a 110 volt electric winch from someone like Northern, Harbor Freight etc. They are about 50 bucks & are very usefull. Then you just anchor it to a tree,car,truck & lower your boiler down carefully & safely! Before you tip it upright shove some pipes cut to the right size under it. One person can roll it then(sweep the floor though), Randy
 
Singed Eyebrows,

Thanks. I will take a look at the winch and see how I can mount it - possibly to the back of my old ford tractor. I am feeling more comfortable on trying th emove myself. It is amazing what you can find on youtube - I saw two guys easily move a 1700 lb safe on a dolly.
 
heat4steve said:
Singed Eyebrows,

Thanks. I will take a look at the winch and see how I can mount it - possibly to the back of my old ford tractor. I am feeling more comfortable on trying th emove myself. It is amazing what you can find on youtube - I saw two guys easily move a 1700 lb safe on a dolly.
Click to expand...
Steve; You don't need to mount the winch, just chain it to your tractor with a short chain. I would advise against putting the EB on a dolly & not sure if you were going to do that. There is almost no chance of the EB tipping off 1" pipes, a dolly is a different story. Good luck, Randy
 
Randy,

Any ideas about how to safely tilt the boiler on its side - once I build a wooden frame around it. I need to move the boiler up 18" onto a porch. Maybe I can tilt and raise it in one move using he winch to control the rate of movement.
 
I would consider building a small shed and putting the EB outside. Elliminate the basement all together.
 
gator21

do have an outbuilding that I can put the boiler in. Other than moving the boiler into the basement I decided on the basement for the following reasons:
- less wasted heat.
- No need to trudge outside in the winter.
- simpler system design
- slightly lower cost (have a chimney) although I did not factor any moving cost
- bypasses any issues that may arise in NYS with having an outdoor wood boiler.

However one key cocner I have with an indoor boiler is safety. My father in law is dead set againt having the boiler inside - he believes it will cause a fire and is incompatable with having propane in the house.

Would you mind sharing your reasons for having the boiler outside?
 
heat4steve said:
Randy,

Any ideas about how to safely tilt the boiler on its side - once I build a wooden frame around it. I need to move the boiler up 18" onto a porch. Maybe I can tilt and raise it in one move using he winch to control the rate of movement.
Click to expand...
Does your tractor have a front end loader. If it does you can just back up with the winch attached & slowly lower. Do you have a tree nearby, that will also work. It sounds like for some of this work you will need 5 or 6 strong friends. Randy
 
heat4steve said:
gator21

do have an outbuilding that I can put the boiler in. Other than moving the boiler into the basement I decided on the basement for the following reasons:
- less wasted heat.
- No need to trudge outside in the winter.
- simpler system design
- slightly lower cost (have a chimney) although I did not factor any moving cost
- bypasses any issues that may arise in NYS with having an outdoor wood boiler.

However one key cocner I have with an indoor boiler is safety. My father in law is dead set againt having the boiler inside - he believes it will cause a fire and is incompatable with having propane in the house.

Would you mind sharing your reasons for having the boiler outside?
Click to expand...

You're points for having a boiler inside are good ones. You are correct in that you don't have to trudge outside in the winter, it is a slightly lower cost, and you won't have to worry about NYS issues. I would disagree that there's SIGNIFICANT additional heat loss with an outside unit. I did insulate my building and any exposed piping and my unit runs great! So I'm sure there is some additional heat loss with an outside unit, I just don't think it's enough to factor into your decision. I would also disagree that it's a simpler system design. The design should be the same whether the boiler is inside or outside. There's just more material (and therefore cost) involved. I obviously don't know your layout, so putting the unit in your out building may require additinal design effort.

My biggest reason for NOT recommending putting your boiler system inside is the mess and SMOKE. No matter how hard you try, some smoke will come out of the door everytime you refill the boiler. Also, soot from cleaning out the lower chamber can be messy. The wood itself is messy. I assume you will be storing a certain amount of wood in your basement? That being said, with diligent effort your can keep the boiler area and woodpile reasonably clean, but there's no way around the smoke situation.

There is always some risk with any indoor wood burning product, but I don't think it's a a big risk. Just make sure you install with the recommended clearances and you should be fine.

Anyway, that's only my opinion for what its worth. In regards to your Econoburn 150.....congratulations on a great purchase! I've love mine! I think you'll be very happy with it!

Good Luck and happy burning!
 
Whoa nelllly....not the inside vs outside debate again! ha. I'll go out on a limb and say the majority (more than 50%) of the users on this site have their units inside. We should do a poll someday....
 
One factor to be aware of is that the Econoburn has a surprisingly high center of gravity (not to an extreme, but just compared to what you might assume)-- be prepared for that in terms of any tilting of it- be very ready to support it and not have it get away from you.

I lowered mine down my cellar bulkhead using a borrowed tractor with front loader- although in my case the inside steps were wood and easy to temporarily relocated out of the way. (also be sure that the loader and the tractor itself can handle 1600+/- pounds and still handle/ steer OK)

On the outside vs inside, in addition to the other factors mentioned, if you've got a boiler in an outbuilding, your ability to go away in extreme cold weather and rely on some kind of backup heat suddenly becomes a whole different picture.

The only boiler I could see (for me) locating in a stand alone building would be a Garn, simply because of its size.

I have my EBW 150 in the cellar and wouldn't want it anywhere else.
 
No dollies as pointed out before, steel pipes only. 1600lbs in that small sq/ft is alot. Pybyr is correct as about the center of gravity, laying the unit on side? Chainfalls to lay it down and stand it up, will be needed. BTW, my units next door in garage,whoops I meant wood storage facility. This works for me.
 
I would ask myself: "Without the proper equipment and knowledge, will I do $380.00 worth of damage? How much equipment do I need to buy to accomplish the job?"

I think I would ask the guy that will do it for $380.00 if he is insured and make him liable for any damage and sit down, crack open a Keystone and watch!

I've seen riggers in action and found it amazing what they can do with a few wooden blocks and roller skates.
 
Fred61 said:
I would ask myself: "Without the proper equipment and knowledge, will I do $380.00 worth of damage? How much equipment do I need to buy to accomplish the job?"

I think I would ask the guy that will do it for $380.00 if he is insured and make him liable for any damage and sit down, crack open a Keystone and watch!

I've seen riggers in action and found it amazing what they can do with a few wooden blocks and roller skates.
Click to expand...



Good post, i didn't think 380 was a bad price. Also, if a man gets hurt and is out of work, $380 is a good deal. These boilers have bad backs and broken fingers possiblity.
 
Fred61 said:
I would ask myself: "Without the proper equipment and knowledge, will I do $380.00 worth of damage? How much equipment do I need to buy to accomplish the job?"

I think I would ask the guy that will do it for $380.00 if he is insured and make him liable for any damage and sit down, crack open a Keystone and watch!

I've seen riggers in action and found it amazing what they can do with a few wooden blocks and roller skates.
Click to expand...

Doing this job isn't to hard if you know what you are doing and it doesn't take alot of equipment. BUT it does take knowhow and time. Remember how they made the pyramids. So with that said, If you don't really know how either have someone help you that really does or hire it done. 3/4 of a ton can and will do alot of damage to itself, building, and flesh and bones. I've helped move and set some HUGE machines with just jacks, bars, and blocking but wouldn't even try if I didn't have the know how and made sure at all times that safety was the MAIN issue at ALL times.
leaddog
 
$380.00 could buy some nice tools for the job. Then you have the tools for the future unless you dont think you will ever use them again. I would do it if I had lots of help, two heads are better than one. If you cant get
lots of help hire it done.
 
I put down piece of 3/4" plywood over the stairs and lowered mine in with an exevator with chain hoist attached to the bucket. Put a piece of metal between the bottom of the boiler and the plywood so things slide easier. I never let the boiler completely lay on it's side. It slid down and then I put a 4x4 behind it and slowly release the chain hoist while pushing the top of the boiler forward until it was resting on the floor. It took ~5 minutes to get it down. Then 1 1/4" pipe to move it in the basement. I'm not sure if this can help you in your situation, good luck.
 
I'm pretty old but I wasn't there when they made the pyramids so I can't tell you what problems they encountered but I would think that if they dropped a rock and smashed it or flattened a worker they just went and got another rock and another worker. I don't believe there is another Econoburn or worker waiting at the end of the driveway as replacements. Forget the replacement costs of woodwork, floors, framing and stairs.
The cost of placing the unit in an outbuilding as an alternative would certainly make that $380 look like chickenfeed.
 
Thanks to all for replying!

As pointed out safety (an damage prevention) are an important consideration in moving the boiler in comparion so saving $380. I still trying to develop plan - so I am not sure yet wheteh I will do it myself. This is where I am at now:

Need Loader tractor, winch, and 2x10 for stairs

1) Crate boiler to move.
2) Ask farmer down the road to lift the boiler onto my porch with his tractor (also removing bolted pallet from the boiler at the same time) - Doors to basement are under a covered porch so tractor can nnot access
3) Place cleat on porch to fix bottom of boiler and slowly tilt boiler on it side with tractor placing two 1000 lb dollies under the boiler
4) Roll boiler to basement stairs and hook an electric winch to the boiler
5) Slowly guide the boiler down the stairs using the winch and with 2x10s on stairs
6) Once at bottom of stairs tilt the boiler back up right with a hand winch or chain fall ( not yet sure how to rig this yet but boiler should be almsot at 60 degrees already and so litte force should be needed)
7) Use pipes to roll boiler across the basement ( or possibly a pallet jack )
8) if possible raise boiler 4" onto concrete blocks

Doesn't that seem simple? I am sure professional movers/riggers could do this a simpler manner. Oh well. Thanks again.
 
heat4steve said:
Thanks to all for replying!

As pointed out safety (an damage prevention) are an important consideration in moving the boiler in comparion so saving $380. I still trying to develop plan - so I am not sure yet wheteh I will do it myself. This is where I am at now:

Need Loader tractor, winch, and 2x10 for stairs

1) Crate boiler to move.
2) Ask farmer down the road to lift the boiler onto my porch with his tractor (also removing bolted pallet from the boiler at the same time) - Doors to basement are under a covered porch so tractor can nnot access
3) Place cleat on porch to fix bottom of boiler and slowly tilt boiler on it side with tractor placing two 1000 lb dollies under the boiler
4) Roll boiler to basement stairs and hook an electric winch to the boiler
5) Slowly guide the boiler down the stairs using the winch and with 2x10s on stairs
6) Once at bottom of stairs tilt the boiler back up right with a hand winch or chain fall ( not yet sure how to rig this yet but boiler should be almsot at 60 degrees already and so litte force should be needed)
7) Use pipes to roll boiler across the basement ( or possibly a pallet jack )
8) if possible raise boiler 4" onto concrete blocks

sounds like you have got a good plan. Go for it but just take your time and check and recheck for safety. It's not a hard thing to do as long as you don't try and get in a hurry. A good long pry bar helps in a lot of situations.
leaddog

Doesn't that seem simple? I am sure professional movers/riggers could do this a simpler manner. Oh well. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
 
heat4steve said:
gator21

do have an outbuilding that I can put the boiler in. Other than moving the boiler into the basement I decided on the basement for the following reasons:
- less wasted heat.
- No need to trudge outside in the winter.
- simpler system design
- slightly lower cost (have a chimney) although I did not factor any moving cost
- bypasses any issues that may arise in NYS with having an outdoor wood boiler.

However one key cocner I have with an indoor boiler is safety. My father in law is dead set againt having the boiler inside - he believes it will cause a fire and is incompatable with having propane in the house.

Would you mind sharing your reasons for having the boiler outside?
Click to expand...

Is the Econoburn safety tested and listed to be installed inside of your home?
What does your insurance company think of you moving that unit inside your home? Are they going to cancel your insurance after they find out you have moved it into your home?
How would the cost be less if you are installing it to your existing chimney? Have you had it inspected and are you sure there is no damage to your chimney?
Your really making changes because of a PROPOSED NYS regs that haven't even been passed? The DEC already admitted, even before the last two public hearings (in June), that they were going to have to re-write the regulations because of the significant negative feedback that they were receiving (undoubtebly from the owners, legislators, etc.). A Senate Bill passed 61-0 that would prevent the DEC from passing what they proposed...this sent a message DEC was proposing improper and unreasonable regulations for OWBs.

You should at minimum have your chimney inspected and check with your insurance company before you make the move inside.
 
[quote author="Sam W." date="1283878683]

Is the Econoburn safety tested and listed to be installed inside of your home?
What does your insurance company think of you moving that unit inside your home? Are they going to cancel your insurance after they find out you have moved it into your home?
How would the cost be less if you are installing it to your existing chimney? Have you had it inspected and are you sure there is no damage to your chimney?
Your really making changes because of a PROPOSED NYS regs that haven't even been passed? The DEC already admitted, even before the last two public hearings (in June), that they were going to have to re-write the regulations because of the significant negative feedback that they were receiving (undoubtebly from the owners, legislators, etc.). A Senate Bill passed 61-0 that would prevent the DEC from passing what they proposed...this sent a message DEC was proposing improper and unreasonable regulations for OWBs.

You should at minimum have your chimney inspected and check with your insurance company before you make the move inside.[/quote]

Sam W.

Thanks for our feedback. Concenring your points:

1) Insurance Company - The company is fine with the installation as long as they recieve a copy of the inspection.
2) Is Boiler Okay for Indoors - The Econoburn 150W is designed for indoor use (althoug it can be installed in an a "insulated otdoor structure)
3) Chimney - The Chiminey is okay but needs to be lined and have some repointing - The cost for this is comparable to running 100' of pex tubing, installing double wall stainless chimney outside, insulating a space for the boiler, and purchasing a isolating heat exchanger (to use antifreeze).

I had the boiler for three month already an have gone back and forth on the installation - putting a lot (maybe) to much thought into it. In any case I am now on the side of inside and the cold is coming. Thanks again.
 
I think you'll be very happy with your choice to have the boiler inside....
 
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