smoke in the house

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tomstudzinski

New Member
Sep 7, 2010
3
Washington state
I have a two year history of smoke problems and Im looking for some advice on the subject.
Ever since installing an Enviro pellet stove, October two years ago, I have a random problem with unit shutting down and filling the house with smoke from unburned pellets. Im talking about enough smoke that I have to open the windows to clear the air!

From the first week I owned the stove I had a smoke problem. The first time the dealer sent someone out he just sniffed around and blamed the smoke on my install. He conducted a five minute inspection, no tools, no test, and concluded that the smoke must be re-drawn back through the pipe connections and the hole through the wall since I only used the six oz’s silicone that came with the stove. I took his advance and reinstalled the stove using more sealant. My install is straight out from the wall. The fix worked for a few weeks until I started to smell smoke again.

The dealer came out again, but this time he pin pointed the problem to the thermostat. I installed a new thermostat and the problem was solved, so I thought. A month later I woke up in the middle of the night to house felled of smoke. Not again! I called the dealer the next morning and they suggested that I upgrade to a better thermostat. I did and the problem seemed to disappear until fall rolled around the next year.

No one had witnessed the smoke coming out of the unit until I happen to be standing next to stove when it shut down and smoke stated rolling out. Upon shut down I walked over to the thermostat to find the room temperature below the seventy degree programmed setting. By the time I walked back over to the unit the eternal fan had stopped and the left over pellets still burning started filling the house with smoke. So, now we know what causes the smoke, but why dose the unit shut down? I still do have a working unit. At last count my wife and I think the stove has done this at lest sixteen time in two seasons. Although the stove in under warranty not parts have been replaced. The dealer has blamed the stove shutting down on everything but the moon.

I took me six months, but I finally got the manufacture to come out look at the stove. I went over unit’s history and he said that is more than likely the electrical of the house that is causing the problem.” WTF!
He took the stove so he could conduct some bench testing. Anyone have any suggestion on what could be causing this to happen?
 
Team tom said:
No one had witnessed the smoke coming out of the unit until I happen to be standing next to stove when it shut down and smoke stated rolling out. Upon shut down I walked over to the thermostat to find the room temperature below the seventy degree programmed setting. By the time I walked back over to the unit the eternal fan had stopped and the left over pellets still burning started filling the house with smoke.

Sorry to hear about your problem. I had this happen a couple of times with my early model Enviro Mini, but I think for a different cause. The early model Mini's would shut off the combustion blower if the thermostat happened to kick down during the startup cycle, but BEFORE the proof-of-fire snap-switch reached operating temperature. I upgraded my control board for this and other reasons. The new board will keep the exhaust blower on for a minimum amount of time (I think 15 minutes).

It sounds like you have a different case b/c you say the thermostat was showing a room temp lower then the 70 that you had it set for. Just to be sure, as a test, put the stove thermostat mode in on/off (not hi/lo). Turn the thermostat up until stove begins a startup cycle. Now wait a minute or two (long before you start you get burning pellets), and turn the thermostat down. If the stove exhaust blower shuts off right away, then you have the old style board that leave you susceptible to the smoke in house problem. I'm figuring that you have the new board design, and the exhaust blower will stay running even when the thermostat is turned down.

As for a root-cause, I'm leaning towards intermittent problem with the control board microprocessor crashing. Could you let us know what steps you do after the problem to get the stove to start back up? To rule out an input power problem, you may want to invest in a pure-sine wave UPS. Bypassing the thermostat for a few months to see if it make a difference is an option, but not a very convenient one for you.

Carl
 
when the unit "shut down" did you notice if there was still power to the Control Board?Is the outlet grounded properly ? I cannot think of any "good" reason for a stove to do what you have described. Usually there are timing blocks or thermal snap switches or a combination of things that keep the combustion blower going until there is not fuel left in the combustion system. I would check the outlet, and the circuit that it is on to make sure you dont have something going on with the infrastructure. Good old fashioned multimeter will tell you the volts. Even with a thermostat, and even if its a lousy one, this shouldn't happen. I do believe that some of the enviro stoves use a "jumper" on the control board to let the CB know that there is a thermostat connected, any chance that is not on correctly, not making good contact?
 
you need vertical rise to prevent smoke back.
can't help with the random shut downs.
 
The stoves combustion blower should continue to operate for several minutes after the fire has died down to prevent smoke from coming into the house... my St. Croix runs for about 15 minutes after I shut down the stove.
 
i would agree with taking off the "stat" for a while and seeing if the problem happens again , BTW can you restart the unit by the controls on the stove if the unit shuts down in this manner? would get the exhaust blower moving again at least long enough to clear the smoke , +3 on the vertical pipe. also may be a balky low limit switch opening or closing (whichever kills the blower in shutdown sorry i dont know the operating system) seems to me whatever provides "proof of fire" is the likeliest culprit. wish i could help more but like i said i do not know their system and can only guess
 
what model Enviro?
I have seen this kind of problem last year with some Empresses. But not the smoke back because non of my installs are direct vent.

the Combustion blower was over heating and failing. (3 last year on newer stoves)
the only way to know for sure is to keep a close eye on it and see if the combustion blower has stopped and at the same time check if power is till running to it.
if no power then check if power is going into and out of the Low limit prof of fire switch and so on.
 
We had a Bixby that would shut down for no apparent reason. none of the codes it showed made any sense as to a cause. finally the customer decided to call a electrician figuring the problem was a bad connection in the stove. the electrician went over the stove and found nothing so started looking at the house wiring. It turns out a ground wire was just loose enough in the main breaker box to make a poor contact. he tightened it up and everything was fine.
But it is recommended to have some vertical pipe in the system as that will provide enough natural draft to suck the smoke up and out of the house.
 
Thank you for everyone’s input! There is a wealth of knowledge here.
The stove model is an evolution. I plan on installing a vertical pipe system; however that does not fix my problem. I still want to find out what is going on with the stove shutting down for my family’s safety. When the rep came to the house first thing he covered was manual mode and electrical? I told him we “technicians/retail store: had not tried the manual mode, wished the technician/retail store would have thought of this test months earlier.
I did test the electrical and found the grounding to be good. The technician who can to the house with the rep suggested a new board, but rep took my stove to bench test it first. They have had my stove for almost two months and have not heard from them. Im getting too close to the end of my warranty and hope I don’t get burned with a bum stove.
 
Team tom said:
......They have had my stove for almost two months and have not heard from them. Im getting too close to the end of my warranty and hope I don’t get burned with a bum stove.

Thats ridiculous. They either can't figure out the problem and and are putting off getting you a new stove, or they just forgot about you. I would have been on the phone to them every 4-5 days, and if I got no satisfaction, I would be burning up the phone line to Enviro. :mad:

Besides that, I agree on the exhaust pipe....you need at least 3' of vertical pipe....4 or 5' would be even better.

Oh, and about that warranty, I hope you have paperwork that states what date they took the stove out of your house....the warranty should have been put on "hold" until you got it back....I wouldn't accept anything less from Enviro.
 
Team tom said:
No one had witnessed the smoke coming out of the unit until I happen to be standing next to stove when it shut down and smoke stated rolling out. Upon shut down I walked over to the thermostat to find the room temperature below the seventy degree programmed setting. By the time I walked back over to the unit the eternal fan had stopped and the left over pellets still burning started filling the house with smoke. So, now we know what causes the smoke, but why dose the unit shut down?

What I highlighted seems to be what Rod(hearthtools) said. The Combustion fans have thermal fuses in them and when the motor gets hot the fuse opens. Think of it as a circuit breaker that resets itself. I bet if you had noticed the control board was flashing the #2 light code(loss of vacuum). Loss of vacuum will cause a shut down. And once it cooled down you could restart as if nothing was wrong. I personally seen this on an Empress and it only did it on the #5 setting. It was a bad combustion fan and since we replaced it it hasn't caused an issue.

I can't say for sure but it does sound like the dealer doesn't have a clue on whats up! Hopefully you get your stove back with a new combustion blower and you shouldn't have another issue with it! Keep the fingers crossed and get on the horn to them. Start bugging them about getting the stove back!
 
Happy ending!
Just got off the phone with the retail dealer and they are coming out to reinstall my stove. The manufacture replaced the control board. Apparently this is a know problem with the generation of control board installed in my unit. The manufactures conclude the control board would intermittently and mistakenly send the signal to cut off the exhaust blower as the unit shut down, leaving unburned pellets to burn without an exhaust system. The dealer told me that the new control board installed is the lasted version and can not follow the same path as before. In any case, if anyone out there has a problem with their stove DON’T GIVE UP on trying to get it fixed. Both the retail store and the manufacture were hoping we would just go away, put we did not.

Thanks again for all the input.
 
That's good news Tom. Please post a picture or description of the control layout on the new board. I'm curious if the controls are different on the new one Vs old. It will give me an idea as to the vintage of your original one.

Thanks - Carl
 
Team tom said:
.......The manufacture replaced the control board. ]Apparently this is a know problem with the generation of control board installed in my unit.........Both the retail store and the manufacture were hoping we would just go away, put we did not......

A couple of things bother me about this.

The obvious one is that the retailer & manufacturer were basically ignoring you.....it does NOT take 6 months+ to try a new control board. As a matter of fact, the dealer should have tried that as one of the first "fixes" without ever having to remove your stove. His assumption that the stat was the problem was absurd....a stat is just an on-off switch.

Also, (as I highlighted in red above), if the dealer and/or the manufacturer KNEW this was a KNOWN problem, it's incredible to me why a replacement board wasn't installed early on to see......if there was no change, they could have simply removed it and re-installed your original.

And lastly, even though you didn't mention it, what is the manufacturer going to do about having your stove for 6+ months as the warranty slowly was running out??

Bottom line: I would have VERY little trust in the dealer as my source of future help. I won't bash Enviro now, as we have no idea how long it was before the dealer actually contacted them.
 
My Englander blows smoke in the house if the power goes out
Have an elbow coming from the stove to a 3 foot straight pipe out the wall and then a 6 foot vertical on the outside.
 
My Broinlaw had his circuit board replaced on his Enviro a few month's after he bought it.
 
Chris04626 said:
My Englander blows smoke in the house if the power goes out
Have an elbow coming from the stove to a 3 foot straight pipe out the wall and then a 6 foot vertical on the outside.

we need to talk chris, call my shop so i can go over some things with you. "blowing smoke" in a power outage with your described hookup leads me to want to ask a few questions, this is what i do, give me a call, 800-245-6489, ask for mike im in the office 8-5 eastern i'll see if i cant find you a correction that will stop that
 
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