Wood Heat and Charcoal Green

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

soupy1957

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2010
1,365
Connecticut
www.youtube.com
I'm going to go out on limb here, and make an assumption that I believe is true for a good many of us if not most of us, in saying that burning wood is just one element of being "green" (as they call it today), along with other methods of renewable energy and planet-friendliness options, that we practice.
As wood burning advocates and active participants, we are indeed practicing something that is as old as civilization itself, of course, and is as logical as getting water from a well.
Yesterday, the wife decided that our perfectly good Propane gas grill should go to a neighbor in need, (not a bad reason, in and of itself) and it should be replaced by a grill that uses only charcoal; a method that we employed early on in our marriage, for cooking outdoors.
Although I thought it a bit troublesome to be giving away something that, for us fellas at least, is like our lawn mower in terms of our familiarity with it. It got me thinking. It forced me to consider a point that I had missed, in the process of finding renewable energy sources, and reducing my environmental footprint.
That is not to say that Propane is in question really, because I'm of the belief that Propane is a natural product that is not a derivative of oil; but rather it is to consider if charcoal is a more "green" option.
I realize this is more commentary than question, and I further realize that this is a wood burning Forum, (and all of my former postings have been in that vein), but I wanted to open up the topical envelope a little, and take advantage of this more generalized section of the Forum, just to share my thoughts about other ways in which, along with our burning of wood for spiritual, economical, environmental reasons, we also do other things that fall within those same lines of earth-friendly practices.
If burning with charcoal, (which apparently was at least part of the reason why the wife disposed of the perfectly good gas grill), is what the wife prefers, for the "flavor" factor of it, I suppose I could embrace it as yet another way in which we are lessening our consumption of presumably non-renewable substances, (if indeed "Propane" is non-renewable, but I really don't know. I'll have to study up on that one. It's another "assumption" on my part).
The most logical response that I suppose this posting would generate, would be a role call of sorts, of the variety of ways in which you folks, my fellow protagonists in here, go "green" in your approach to your environmental footprint. Charcoal -vs- Propane, solar -vs- electric, wind -vs- electric, battery -vs- gas (cars).
How have YOU directed YOUR lives, so that the damage you leave behind is minimized?
Charcoal, like any other product that produces smoke, is most likely adding to Ozone depletion, presuming that there are carcinogens in the smoke it produces, so I can't say that it is "footprint" neutral. In and of itself it is not necessarily a great example, although possibly an "ok" example of environmental friendliness,
Perhaps it is just sour grapes, to be trying to place some sort of justification in using charcoal instead of Propane for cooking outdoors; but the seemingly unholy and unjust act of taking away "my" gas grill, is akin to throwing out my electric razor, in favor of a straight-edge and a bar of shaving soap in a mug (and you younger fellas won't know what THAT'S all about, but that's ok.......lol).
I'm sure some of you more scientifically-minded, and more knowledgeable individuals, will chime in about Propane, in an attempt to educate me, and I welcome that. I can't say I have a working knowledge of its renewable nature, it's environmental impact, or its cost, in comparison to charcoal.
After you're done getting me "up to speed," I'll go off to my monthly Bluegrass Jam tonight with one of my guitars, or perhaps my mandolin, and forget what I've learned from you, having been immersed in 12 different versions of "Turkey In The Straw" over and over again, all night long!

-Soupy1957
 
Propane is a by product of crude oil and natural gas processing.

As to outdoor cooking. I bought a gas grill and used it twice. Hated the thing and went back to grilling over wood fires like I have for decades. No gas or charcoal used around here. Our grilling fuel comes from the same trees that burn in the wood stove.
 
Pagey said:
If you wanna hang out, you gotta take her out...propane!

Its so high, its so high, its so high, PROPANE.
 
soupy1957 said:
How have YOU directed YOUR lives, so that the damage you leave behind is minimized?


-Soupy1957

My soul motivation to be green is cost. If I could have a cost effective small nuclear reactor in my basement like all Star Trek Homes, I'd be the first to ditch the stove and use the laws of physics to heat and power my home. To each his own, but this planet has been here far, far longer than us "humans" and has seen far worse environmental disasters than anything we could even think of possibly doing. I don't buy into the notion that we humans are damaging the plant, the arrogance of our ability to do so is comical, in my humble opinion. We're simply another living entity on it, like dinosaurs, ants and trees. One day, we'll be long gone and this planet will still be here, perhaps in a few trillion pieces floating in an asteroid belt, but it'll still be around. I'd much rather focus my life on being a responsible husband to my wife and parent for my daughter, and if that means a little family fun on the 2-stroke oil burning snowmobile, or burning a little extra fossil fuel to get back home to my family quicker, well so be it.
I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to waste things, my garbage pick-up company offers free cardboard/glass/plastic pickup, I can do that because it simply makes cost-effective sense to re-use things and more importantly it doesn't take much if any of my time to put the piece of cardboard in the bin, rather than the can. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend 10 minutes washing out a peanut butter container so it can be recycled, it's going straight to the can. Although, and this is a bit of a sidetrack, but I believe the environmentalist do themselves a disservice when promoting that we end-users should all be recycling. End-users, while free, aren't very efficient recyclers, but now we have enough of them to make developing a machine to automatically sort and recycle all our trash cost-prohibited. If we'd all just kept throwing our trash away as normal, I believe cost would have motivated someone to develop a fast and effcient means of sorting and re-using what's re-usable, automatically. We'll still get there one day, but now since end-users are doing half the work for free, it'll take much longer to get there.
When I go hiking or camping it pains me to see losers leaving their trash behind, but that's a pure aesthetic reason, the same reason we put trash in bags and not throw it on the floor of our living space.

Cost, is what motivated me to put my stove in, I have free wood fuel (free's a relative term! I still have to cut it, split it, stack it, move it..!).
I'm not saying we shouldn't be conscience of what we're doing and how we're doing it, and I'm also not saying that environmental conscience people are bad people ((contrary to what most of them think of me), or anything like that. Anyhow, I guess what I'm sayin' is, in choosing a BBQ grille, the environmental impact of which fuel it burns wouldn't even be a fleeting thought in my mind. I'd weigh flavor, ease of use and cost, period.
 
73blazer said:
soupy1957 said:
How have YOU directed YOUR lives, so that the damage you leave behind is minimized?


-Soupy1957

My soul motivation to be green is cost. If I could have a cost effective small nuclear reactor in my basement like all Star Trek Homes, I'd be the first to ditch the stove and use the laws of physics to heat and power my home. To each his own, but this planet has been here far, far longer than us "humans" and has seen far worse environmental disasters than anything we could even think of possibly doing. I don't buy into the notion that we humans are damaging the plant, the arrogance of our ability to do so is comical, in my humble opinion. We're simply another living entity on it, like dinosaurs, ants and trees. One day, we'll be long gone and this planet will still be here, perhaps in a few trillion pieces floating in an asteroid belt, but it'll still be around. I'd much rather focus my life on being a responsible husband to my wife and parent for my daughter, and if that means a little family fun on the 2-stroke oil burning snowmobile, or burning a little extra fossil fuel to get back home to my family quicker, well so be it.
I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to waste things, my garbage pick-up company offers free cardboard/glass/plastic pickup, I can do that because it simply makes cost-effective sense to re-use things and more importantly it doesn't take much if any of my time to put the piece of cardboard in the bin, rather than the can. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend 10 minutes washing out a peanut butter container so it can be recycled, it's going straight to the can. Although, and this is a bit of a sidetrack, but I believe the environmentalist do themselves a disservice when promoting that we end-users should all be recycling. End-users, while free, aren't very efficient recyclers, but now we have enough of them to make developing a machine to automatically sort and recycle all our trash cost-prohibited. If we'd all just kept throwing our trash away as normal, I believe cost would have motivated someone to develop a fast and effcient means of sorting and re-using what's re-usable, automatically. We'll still get there one day, but now since end-users are doing half the work for free, it'll take much longer to get there.
When I go hiking or camping it pains me to see losers leaving their trash behind, but that's a pure aesthetic reason, the same reason we put trash in bags and not throw it on the floor of our living space.

Cost, is what motivated me to put my stove in, I have free wood fuel (free's a relative term! I still have to cut it, split it, stack it, move it..!).
I'm not saying we shouldn't be conscience of what we're doing and how we're doing it, and I'm also not saying that environmental conscience people are bad people ((contrary to what most of them think of me), or anything like that. Anyhow, I guess what I'm sayin' is, in choosing a BBQ grille, the environmental impact of which fuel it burns wouldn't even be a fleeting thought in my mind. I'd weigh flavor, ease of use and cost, period.


you and soupy type to much
 
73blazer said:
soupy1957 said:
How have YOU directed YOUR lives, so that the damage you leave behind is minimized?
-Soupy1957

My soul motivation to be green is cost.

Cost, is what motivated me to put my stove in, I have free wood fuel (free's a relative term! I still have to cut it, split it, stack it, move it..!).
I'm not saying we shouldn't be conscience of what we're doing and how we're doing it, and I'm also not saying that environmental conscience people are bad people ((contrary to what most of them think of me), or anything like that. Anyhow, I guess what I'm sayin' is, in choosing a BBQ grille, the environmental impact of which fuel it burns wouldn't even be a fleeting thought in my mind. I'd weigh flavor, ease of use and cost, period.

Well said, +1. Bottom line is I'm cheap, and being cheap often coincides with being "green" - though sometimes both conflict with the fact I'm also lazy. But doing extra work to overcome that laziness can be very satisfying. It's the joy of wood heat, and wood cooking - the extra work has rewards of flavor, comfort, enjoyment - but the extra work is a reward in itself. "Wood heat - it warms you twice." When you cook with it, it warms you thrice!

To me, food cooked over hardwood coals tastes better than cooked over charcoal, and that better than cooked over propane. Hardwood is the cheapest, but the most work. If propane made food taste better, my lazy side would be overjoyed. So I also say "flavor, ease of use and cost, period."
 
Propane? You can grill with propane? Never heard of such folly. :roll: Propane goes under a pan. Wood goes under meat. :coolsmirk:


I really like meat cooked over a hardwood fire, but the time factor puts it out of consideration for 95% of my cooking. It's usually just the two of us these days, and much of our grilling is rather impromptu in nature, so I rarely have adequate advance notice to get a proper wood fire going. Lady BK gets home and I ask, "Whadda you want for dinner?", and I cook her whatever she's in the mood for, or take her out for it if we don't have it. Besides, I usually have better things to do than to tend a wood fire... like posting volumes of useless drivel here on Hearth.com %-P

Best of all possible worlds? Real lump charcoal with various hardwoods on top to make smoke. Hickory, oak, cherry, mesquite and the occasional apple when I can scrounge it. Not soaked, I just keep adding it until the meat is done. I also like to toss a whole branch of rosemary or thyme onto the coals at the last minute. Yum-m-mmmm. It's gotta be real charcoal, though. Real charcoal starts easily, gets extremely hot very quickly, and burns away to nothing. Briquettes bite big time. I'll bet pellet stove guys just love the stuff, though.


When I BBQ, I use mostly seasoned hardwood with some green mixed in since it burns slow and smoky. That way, I can achieve lower temps for slow cooking. But I always get the coals going with lump charcoal and a cheap electric starter... although I may experiment with a "top-down" fire next time I BBQ.


I don't really think these petty things are green choices, although they may have symbolic significance for some. My decisions to reduce, reuse and recycle throughout the rest of my life allow me to live with my conscience regarding a little extra gasoline or propane I might use during the year.
 
I grill on mesquite, hickory, apple, or pecan. all of those cost $500+ A CORD round these parts. propane would be cheaper. charcoal costs 5/6 dollars a bag. still cheaper. but lacking in flavor!!!! I grill on all natural hardwood due to the flavor it imparts on the meat. using wood probably produces a larger carbon footprint for me. the mesquite i burn comes from central/nothern Arizona, the pecan just above the Mexican/Arizona border (green Valley pecan orchards, used to be one of the largest in the states) and the apple from an orchard in sunny California. how carbon nuetral or green is all that fuel used to truck wood hundreds of miles just to go up in smoke. It tastes good and thats good enough for me. I'll save the world tomorrow when i wash out that peanut butter jar for recycling. Damn that takes about a gallon of water to do. wonder how "green" that just was???
 
I happen to like that it is "green" (when well dried that is) to burn wood. However it is far too much work to do for that reason alone. Grilling? I use propane - I'd love to use wood and someday I'll get a firepit and do that but I just don't have time for dinner prep to get a fire down to cooking coals. When the family is hungry I barely have warning enough to get the gas heated up!

To answer your other questions though - what else do I (we) do? #1 on the list is conservation. Constantly trying to reduce the amount of waste in our lives without giving up quality of life. This goes for not just energy but water, food, packaging (no plastic bags for kids lunches etc), and anything else we can think of. Amazing how far this can go once you get used to it really. We also hang our clothes to dry rather than use the electric clothes dryer and have gotten used to composting what we can. Key for us is to incorporate these things into our lifestyle and maintain a good quality of life - not feel that we are doing without or 'suffering' in any way. Much like we prefer the heat from the stove over the forced hot air, each measure has some benefit that may not be obvious at first or directly related to the "green" reason of doing them. Many of these things take time to do - but slowing down and spending a bit of time hanging clothes on the line while listening to the chatter of a 4yo has rewards too.

And I agree - cleaning peanut butter out of a jar for recycling can take too much water. However getting every last bit out first can help, a rubber spatula and a 6yo can do wonders for getting it out of the jar though... now you may have to give the kid a bath afterwards, but that has to happen anyway most times right?
 
Slow1 said:
...And I agree - cleaning peanut butter out of a jar for recycling can take too much water. However getting every last bit out first can help, a rubber spatula and a 6yo can do wonders for getting it out of the jar though... now you may have to give the kid a bath afterwards, but that has to happen anyway most times right?


Get a dog, no bath needed
 
Can't say as I went to wood heat because I am green. I had woods, I wanted to have a backup way to heat the house.. that has become the main, and the heat pump and Kerosene heaters are down a notch or two. We found we LIKED wood heat, not that we want to be green.

We ride bicycles for fun, not to be green, as we go to most group rides in a Expedition, which, I might add, I am going to soon trade for an Excursion. Our "good mileage" car is a Mustang GT, that spends a fair amount of time sideways..lol.

We launch pounds of lead into the environment with regularity.. eating Bambi for dinner tonight..

and if I grill, it's with propane, but if I BBQ, it's with wood.

Doubt we fall into "green"...
 
branchburner said:
73blazer said:
soupy1957 said:
How have YOU directed YOUR lives, so that the damage you leave behind is minimized?
-Soupy1957

My soul motivation to be green is cost.

Cost, is what motivated me to put my stove in, I have free wood fuel (free's a relative term! I still have to cut it, split it, stack it, move it..!).
I'm not saying we shouldn't be conscience of what we're doing and how we're doing it, and I'm also not saying that environmental conscience people are bad people ((contrary to what most of them think of me), or anything like that. Anyhow, I guess what I'm sayin' is, in choosing a BBQ grille, the environmental impact of which fuel it burns wouldn't even be a fleeting thought in my mind. I'd weigh flavor, ease of use and cost, period.

Well said, +1. Bottom line is I'm cheap, and being cheap often coincides with being "green" - though sometimes both conflict with the fact I'm also lazy. But doing extra work to overcome that laziness can be very satisfying. It's the joy of wood heat, and wood cooking - the extra work has rewards of flavor, comfort, enjoyment - but the extra work is a reward in itself. "Wood heat - it warms you twice." When you cook with it, it warms you thrice!"

I'm with you guys. I'm not trying to save the planet. I'm trying to get the most for my dollar, trying to be self sufficient, and have the best life possible.

I cook on propane and charcoal, depends on how much time I have. A little weber kettle on the picnic table can make lots of food.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.